Is going to college beneficial or is that a lie?

[Unkotare]

Some investments are very bad investments, especially if you are overpaying for said investment.

A student loan is obviously one of these investments.

If an investment is bad then you should have researched it beforehand correct?

And the Federal Government shouldn't collude with Big Education to push loans on gullible students without proper disclosures, especially ones that are not dischargable in bankruptcy.

This is starting to sound familiar......


....adjustable mortgage rate anyone?

 

[AmazonTania]

I agree. Paying for college is an investment just like any other thing you do in life. If you dont have the skills or knowledge to do something you pay or invest in the opportunity to acquire those skills, knowledge, and proof from an accredited source saying this is true..

Some investments are very bad investments, especially if you are overpaying for said investment.

A student loan is obviously one of these investments.

That depends on who is making the investment and why. Most importantly, it depends on what return you actually get on the investment, which obviously will not be the same for everyone.

Who is making the investment and why is really irrelevant. That information only matters for the regulators, as they want to make sure the investment suits the person opening the position. If it were up to me, I wouldn't care, so long as the person investing is aware and understands all of the risk.

The returns are merely to justify the price. Again, if you have overpaid for the investment, it's a bad investment. Plain and simple. How do you know a stock is a bad investment? Just look at it's dividend yield, or it's valuations. If you don't get a good dividend yield, then you've overpaid. If it's forward PE doesn't justify the price, then you've overpaid.

 

[Unkotare]

The private sector has no need for Art History majors or experts on 19th century poetry.

Sure it does. Your marketing firm does not constitute the entire private sector.



Revenge of the Liberal Arts Major

 

[AmazonTania]

OK I see we do agree. No a college education is not required to be successful. It is something you may want to invest in if you want a job that pays something that will put you in the middle class.

It depends on your course of study.

There are an awful lot of waiters with liberal arts degrees that didn't get them squat but a boat load of debt.

I see your point from a employment side of things but history does have its points.

Real degree's
Economics
Science
Engineering
Chemistry
Physics
business
medical
are important

College is generally a good thing for this nation. A degree in African studies, woman studies or something that doesn't have many job opunities I agree with you on.

Those degrees are only very good if you plan on going for your masters. Some of them you can get very far without a masters, like medical. Some of those you don't really need at all, like business.

 

[Unkotare]

How do you know a stock is a bad investment? Just look at it's dividend yield, or it's valuations. If you don't get a good dividend yield, then you've overpaid. .

That's what I said, and in terms of education who is making that investment and why is entirely relevant because it is determinative to a large degree.

 

[AmazonTania]

How do you know a stock is a bad investment? Just look at it's dividend yield, or it's valuations. If you don't get a good dividend yield, then you've overpaid. .

That's what I said, and in terms of education who is making that investment and why is entirely relevant because it is determinative to a large degree.

Possibly. There are some people who do not have the aptitude for college.

 

[JoeB131]

I think there are a lot of people who go to college who don't need to, who would be vastly better off going to vocational schools to learn a trade.

I also think that College has become what High School should be. In short, in my primary line of work- Purchasing and Inventory Planning - most companies will not hire you without a college degree today. I know Buyers with 20+ years experience who have a hard time getting a job now because back in 1990, you could get a job as a buyer with no college, just a good sense of pricing and some strong math skills.

But when 20% of HS Grads can't read their own diplomas, employers want a little extra.

 

[candycorn]

I agree. Paying for college is an investment just like any other thing you do in life. If you dont have the skills or knowledge to do something you pay or invest in the opportunity to acquire those skills, knowledge, and proof from an accredited source saying this is true..

A much better system is one by where Uncle Sam fronts you the money for some of the college/trade school training and then deducts it from your paycheck with interest during your productive years. We waste a lot of potential by having these barriers to education

Whats the difference in that and getting school loans?

Two key things.

School loans often need based or require other things...

Our general eligibility requirements are that you must

demonstrate financial need (for most programs);
be a U.S. citizen or an eligible noncitizen;
have a valid Social Security number (with the exception of students from the Republic of the Marshall Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of Palau);
be registered with Selective Service, if you’re a male (you must register between the ages of 18 and 25);
be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student in an eligible degree or certificate program;
be enrolled at least half-time to be eligible for Direct Loan Program funds;
maintain satisfactory academic progress in college or career school;
sign statements on the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSASM) stating that
you are not in default on a federal student loan and do not owe money on a federal student grant and
you will use federal student aid only for educational purposes; and
show you’re qualified to obtain a college or career school education by
having a high school diploma or a recognized equivalent such as a General Educational Development (GED) certificate or
completing a high school education in a homeschool setting approved under state law.

Nearly all of those would be gone.

Second, payback will be automatic through payroll deduction regardless. If you're not working, there is no payback taking place.

The upshot is thst there would be limits to the amounts.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

If your goal in going to a university is to "get a good job," get yourself over to McDonald's and get yourself into a management training program. You will wind up making more money than most college graduates, unless they are doctors or engineers.


If your goal is to become a lettered, educated person, then, by all means, go.

Personally, I'm sick of our universities being inundated with semi-literate morons who do not belong there.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

How do you know a stock is a bad investment? Just look at it's dividend yield, or it's valuations. If you don't get a good dividend yield, then you've overpaid. .

That's what I said, and in terms of education who is making that investment and why is entirely relevant because it is determinative to a large degree.

You do realize that a dividend is money that you've already overpaid, right? Dividends have nothing to do with earnings.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

It's not. I don't see where this line of questioning is going, however, you do have the rhetoric spouted by many political leaders that college graduates earn a million dollars more on average than non-graduates.

If you propagate the idea that a lack of a college degree equals failure, then it's really no wonder why people will try to pursue it. Couple that in with market distortions and the cost of a student loan will rise faster than inflation.

OK I see we do agree. No a college education is not required to be successful. It is something you may want to invest in if you want a job that pays something that will put you in the middle class.

It depends on your course of study.

There are an awful lot of waiters with liberal arts degrees that didn't get them squat but a boat load of debt.

...and there a lot of people with liberal arts degrees running major companies, too.

 

[Pheonixops]

I was told by another poster i will not name that too many people go to college. The reasoning is that its all a lie that college teaches you the skills to get a higher paying job.

Why do too many people go to college? Because they've been sold a lie that going to college gives you skills to get a high paying job.

i went to college and got a degree in my field and secured a higher paying job because of the skills I acquired. Not only did I learn the skills I also received a degree that certified I was qualified for the prerequisites for the job. Before anyone thinks I left something out this is literally all the poster gave me to go on. Anyone agree with the posters premise?

It depends if they want to get into a trade or a white collar profession .

 

[Skull Pilot]

OK I see we do agree. No a college education is not required to be successful. It is something you may want to invest in if you want a job that pays something that will put you in the middle class.

It depends on your course of study.

There are an awful lot of waiters with liberal arts degrees that didn't get them squat but a boat load of debt.

I dont feel sorry for someone that would major in Liberal Arts and then expect to be paid a high wage. Thats the fault of the parents and ultimately the person who did not research what a degree in Liberal Arts would command.

It's not the fault of the parents. Most college freshmen are 18 and therefore adults responsible for their own choices.

 

[KevinWestern]

It depends on your course of study.

There are an awful lot of waiters with liberal arts degrees that didn't get them squat but a boat load of debt.

I dont feel sorry for someone that would major in Liberal Arts and then expect to be paid a high wage. Thats the fault of the parents and ultimately the person who did not research what a degree in Liberal Arts would command.

It's not the fault of the parents. Most college freshmen are 18 and therefore adults responsible for their own choices.

Usually the major (primary) college decisions are made well before the student is 18.

 

[Asclepias]

It depends on your course of study.

There are an awful lot of waiters with liberal arts degrees that didn't get them squat but a boat load of debt.

I dont feel sorry for someone that would major in Liberal Arts and then expect to be paid a high wage. Thats the fault of the parents and ultimately the person who did not research what a degree in Liberal Arts would command.

It's not the fault of the parents. Most college freshmen are 18 and therefore adults responsible for their own choices.

If they choose to toss their child out to the wolves then yes its not their fault. My wife and i sat down with our daughter about college while she was a freshman in high school. She eventually got a full ride academic scholarship but she was definitely aware of what a student loan entailed. Why someone would not take up that responsibility for their child is mystifying to me.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Not all college degrees have equal marketable value.

It's especially important for anyone thinking about taking out student loans for a degree to evaluate his future earning potential. Too many graduates are saddled with massive amounts of debt for degrees that have virtually no economic value. The fact that such loans are handed out without an appraisal for the value of the education is fraud, imo.

Right wingers like Rick Santorum and the bulk of the Republican Party that agrees with him make no distinction.

Science is a faith, evolution a lie, climate change a conspiracy, education is for snobs and liberal college professors only want to turn your kids into communists.

It's one of the reasons Red States are a mess and only get by with money from the very "liberals" they hate. Worse, they try to blame it on minorities. The US over all is 71% white. Many of the Red States, like Kentucky and Tennessee are 90% or more white (just like the Republican Party). So they can't blame it on minorities how ever hard they try. It's following 150 years of destructive and discredited conservative policies.

Completely all false.

 

[boedicca]

How do you know a stock is a bad investment? Just look at it's dividend yield, or it's valuations. If you don't get a good dividend yield, then you've overpaid. .

That's what I said, and in terms of education who is making that investment and why is entirely relevant because it is determinative to a large degree.

You do realize that a dividend is money that you've already overpaid, right? Dividends have nothing to do with earnings.

Dividends have nothing to do with earnings?

Did you flunk Finance 101?

 

[Edgetho]

I think there are a lot of people who go to college who don't need to, who would be vastly better off going to vocational schools to learn a trade.

I also think that College has become what High School should be. In short, in my primary line of work- Purchasing and Inventory Planning - most companies will not hire you without a college degree today. I know Buyers with 20+ years experience who have a hard time getting a job now because back in 1990, you could get a job as a buyer with no college, just a good sense of pricing and some strong math skills.

But when 20% of HS Grads can't read their own diplomas, employers want a little extra.

Good post and a good point.

My Daughter In Law has a degree from UMass and she works for a Wine & Spirits distributor as Sales Person. Makes DAMNED good money doing it, too.

Why does that require a degree?

At my old job, I had to get a waiver because I didn't have a College Degree.

But the best Agents we had didn't have degrees.

You're right but you missed something and it was probably because you didn't think of it...

With all the anti-discrimination laws on the books today, demanding a College Degree helps eliminate the risk of running into a lot of those.

It used to be that Managers could hire someone based on 'gut feelings' but any more...?

You run the risk of a lawsuit.

The College Degree deal thing protects employers from a lot of those suits.

 

[Asclepias]

From my point of view college is great if you want to have a job especially in a needed field like being a doctor, nurse, scientist or teacher. My only problem with college is that it is the culmination of all the brain washing we have received all our lives that we need to work for someone else. The school system in general teaches children to be worker bees and not the leaders and entrepreneurs of tomorrow.

 

[Unkotare]

I dont feel sorry for someone that would major in Liberal Arts and then expect to be paid a high wage. Thats the fault of the parents and ultimately the person who did not research what a degree in Liberal Arts would command.

It's not the fault of the parents. Most college freshmen are 18 and therefore adults responsible for their own choices.

Usually the major (primary) college decisions are made well before the student is 18.

Decisions what what the student will major in? No, not "usually."