Is going to college beneficial or is that a lie?

[Unkotare]

From my point of view college is great if you want to have a job especially in a needed field like being a doctor, nurse, scientist or teacher. My only problem with college is that it is the culmination of all the brain washing we have received all our lives that we need to work for someone else. The school system in general teaches children to be worker bees and not the leaders and entrepreneurs of tomorrow.

I guess that depends on the school and what you study there.

 

[FJO]

Not all college degrees have equal marketable value.

It's especially important for anyone thinking about taking out student loans for a degree to evaluate his future earning potential. Too many graduates are saddled with massive amounts of debt for degrees that have virtually no economic value. The fact that such loans are handed out without an appraisal for the value of the education is fraud, imo.

Right wingers like Rick Santorum and the bulk of the Republican Party that agrees with him make no distinction.

Science is a faith, evolution a lie, climate change a conspiracy, education is for snobs and liberal college professors only want to turn your kids into communists.

It's one of the reasons Red States are a mess and only get by with money from the very "liberals" they hate. Worse, they try to blame it on minorities. The US over all is 71% white. Many of the Red States, like Kentucky and Tennessee are 90% or more white (just like the Republican Party). So they can't blame it on minorities how ever hard they try. It's following 150 years of destructive and discredited conservative policies.

Rick Santorum was absolutely correct when he said that when somebody claims that everyone should have a college degree is a SNOB.

Not everyone should have a college degree. Some just simply don't measure up and no matter how the do-gooders try to spin it, granting degrees to these folks is money/loan is very badly and foolishly spent.

Consider the fact that lots of trade professions go unfilled, because people who would make good tradesmen wasted their time and their parents' money getting useless and worthless degrees they never earned, while tradesmen need to be imported from Europe or the jobs have to be performed by illegal immigrants.

Why do I think those degrees are worthless?

They are the result of one-directional teaching, where critical and alternate thinking is not only discouraged but actually ridiculed and prohibited. For example, Creationism (aka Intelligent Design) which is part of all religions is - must be - replaced by the new religion of Darwinism.

For another example, liberals blame humanity for climate change, forgetting that a few thousand years age (long before humans burned coal or run engines powered by gasoline) there was such warming that millions of square miles of ice melted and voila!
there are lush vegetation where there was nothing but ice. If liberals had nothing to fear, they would ENCOURAGE different thinking, no matter how absurd they may think that is, just to give developing minds a chance to come to a conclusion they are comfortable with.

Some red states may need federal assistance. But only blue states are near bankruptcy and only cities with long history of hopeless and incompetent blue management are in actual bankruptcy.

 

[KevinWestern]

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?

Let's try to start over, Unkotare. I'm back on the keys.

No, college isn't mandatory. However what do the prospects look like for a person who does not earn a 4-year-degree in this job market? Pretty bleak, in my opinion. Therefore I believe it can be at least called "necessary" these days if one would like to earn a decent living (whereas maybe back in 1970 that wasn't quite the case).

And that is fine, especially if college is creating for us a stronger workforce with folks packaged up with the skills they need to succeed.

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system. I feel like in many cases our economy would function just as effectively as it does today if companies were to pick students directly out of highschool (as in the past) and save them the trouble of spending four years studying African dance culture at a pricetag of $60k+ just so they can say that "yes, I have a bachelor's degree".

Doctors may need to attend college for many years to prepare for the job ahead, however someone who spends his/her day flipping through outlook and putting a few speadsheets together can learn much of what they need to know on the job in an apprenticeship setting.

The notion of "needing a 4-year college" degree (in my opinion) has sort of spiraled out of control in our society, and I think we need to scale things back a bit into shorter, streamlined programs that save students money and actually prepare them for the field they plan to enter into. This is much more efficient.

We can do better than a "one-size-fits-all" college education, because not all jobs are "one-size-fits-all".

.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?

Let's try to start over, Unkotare. I'm back on the keys.

No, college isn't mandatory. However what do the prospects look like for a person who does not earn a 4-year-degree in this job market? Pretty bleak, in my opinion. Therefore I believe it is necessary these days.

And that is fine, especially if the skills learned at college are creating a stronger workforce, and in the absence of the 4-year degree our economy would be less efficient, robust, etc.

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system. I feel like in many cases our economy would function just as effectively as it does today if companies were to pick students directly out of highschool (as in the past) and save them the $60k+.

Doctors may need to attend college for many years to prepare for the job ahead, however someone who spends his/her day flipping through outlook and putting a few speadsheets together can learn much of what they need to know on the job in an apprenticeship setting.

The notion of "needing a 4-year college" degree (in my opinion) has sort of spiraled out of control in our society, and I think we need to scale things back a bit into shorter, streamlined programs that save students money and actually prepare them for the field they plan to enter into.

We can do better than a "one-size-fits-all" college education, because it's extraordinarily inefficient.

.

A 4 year degree in what?

I know diesel mechanics that make more than some kid with a Bachelor's of Arts degree.

 

[The Rabbi]

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?

Let's try to start over, Unkotare. I'm back on the keys.

No, college isn't mandatory. However what do the prospects look like for a person who does not earn a 4-year-degree in this job market? Pretty bleak, in my opinion. Therefore I believe it is necessary these days.

And that is fine, especially if the skills learned at college are creating a stronger workforce, and in the absence of the 4-year degree our economy would be less efficient, robust, etc.

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system. I feel like in many cases our economy would function just as effectively as it does today if companies were to pick students directly out of highschool (as in the past) and save them the $60k+.

Doctors may need to attend college for many years to prepare for the job ahead, however someone who spends his/her day flipping through outlook and putting a few speadsheets together can learn much of what they need to know on the job in an apprenticeship setting.

The notion of "needing a 4-year college" degree (in my opinion) has sort of spiraled out of control in our society, and I think we need to scale things back a bit into shorter, streamlined programs that save students money and actually prepare them for the field they plan to enter into.

We can do better than a "one-size-fits-all" college education, because it's extraordinarily inefficient.

.

A 4 year degree in what?

I know diesel mechanics that make more than some kid with a Bachelor's of Arts degree.

Exactly the point.
Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

 

[Rocko]

For many people it is benefical, but not for everyone.

 

[candycorn]

Not all college degrees have equal marketable value.

It's especially important for anyone thinking about taking out student loans for a degree to evaluate his future earning potential. Too many graduates are saddled with massive amounts of debt for degrees that have virtually no economic value. The fact that such loans are handed out without an appraisal for the value of the education is fraud, imo.

Right wingers like Rick Santorum and the bulk of the Republican Party that agrees with him make no distinction.

Science is a faith, evolution a lie, climate change a conspiracy, education is for snobs and liberal college professors only want to turn your kids into communists.

It's one of the reasons Red States are a mess and only get by with money from the very "liberals" they hate. Worse, they try to blame it on minorities. The US over all is 71% white. Many of the Red States, like Kentucky and Tennessee are 90% or more white (just like the Republican Party). So they can't blame it on minorities how ever hard they try. It's following 150 years of destructive and discredited conservative policies.

Rick Santorum was absolutely correct when he said that when somebody claims that everyone should have a college degree is a SNOB.

Who claimed that?

It wasn't the President.

PolitiFact | Rick Santorum calls Barack Obama a 'snob' for wanting 'everybody in America to go to college'

 

[KevinWestern]

A 4 year degree in what?

I know diesel mechanics that make more than some kid with a Bachelor's of Arts degree.

I'm sure being a diesel mechanic is a great job, however the fact of the matter is that there's just not that many decent-paying jobs to go around that don't require college degrees. They're few and far between these days (whereas they were much more prevalent in the 1980's - for instance).

Do any of you have thoughts as to why the shift? Sure, the economy has changed since the 1980's, however many tasks (especially in the office) have gotten quite a bit easier now that we have computers to work with.

Why do you suppose in 1980 an accountant could be successful with just a CPA, however now that same exact accountant is required to have a 4-year degree as well?

That's one question I've been pondering...

 

[KevinWestern]

Exactly the point.
Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

I think too many folks go to college because too many jobs now require them. I think it's up to the companies to change that way of thinking.

If a diesel mechanic can do just fine without a 4 year degree, why can't a fellow creating some spreadsheets on Microsoft excel be alright too?

I think the construct that 'ALL APPLICANTS MUST HAVE A FOUR YEAR DEGREE' is a thinking pattern that aught to be revised.

.

 

[candycorn]

Who said it was "mandatory"? Is there "something wrong" with a very nice new car costing 60k+? Is there something wrong with taking out a loan to pay for that car, or choosing to buy a cheaper car (or just walking, for that matter)?

Let's try to start over, Unkotare. I'm back on the keys.

No, college isn't mandatory. However what do the prospects look like for a person who does not earn a 4-year-degree in this job market? Pretty bleak, in my opinion. Therefore I believe it is necessary these days.

And that is fine, especially if the skills learned at college are creating a stronger workforce, and in the absence of the 4-year degree our economy would be less efficient, robust, etc.

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system. I feel like in many cases our economy would function just as effectively as it does today if companies were to pick students directly out of highschool (as in the past) and save them the $60k+.

Doctors may need to attend college for many years to prepare for the job ahead, however someone who spends his/her day flipping through outlook and putting a few speadsheets together can learn much of what they need to know on the job in an apprenticeship setting.

The notion of "needing a 4-year college" degree (in my opinion) has sort of spiraled out of control in our society, and I think we need to scale things back a bit into shorter, streamlined programs that save students money and actually prepare them for the field they plan to enter into.

We can do better than a "one-size-fits-all" college education, because it's extraordinarily inefficient.

.

A 4 year degree in what?

I know diesel mechanics that make more than some kid with a Bachelor's of Arts degree.

We have nurses who are fine nurses and have been with us for over 15 years in many cases. Some over 20. The difference between the nurses who have been here 15 years and those who have been here 20, difference in pay since you characterize in those terms, is almost $0.00. Why? People top out. We can only pay X amount for an RN and she may be the greatest nurse in the world.

I'm not a diesel mechanic but I would imagine that the garage where the mechanic works has a scale as well. If he/she doesn't work for his/her self, you top out because there is only so much value in your job to the owner.

In other words, you're limited by your education.

But if you were to pair your knowledge of diesel mechanics with some courses in engineering, metallurgy, CAD, etc... maybe you could develop tools that would be more beneficial on the shop floor. If you wanted to open your own shop you'll probably only get a loan if you partner with someone with business experience either as the investor or someone who can line up financing OR get the business acumen yourself. More college.

Nurses with far less patient contact who become DONs make more. They have more responsibility hence they earn more. I would debate whether or not that is fair but it is the reality of the situation. An MSN gets your more cheddar than an BSN. Sorry.

 

[Unkotare]

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system.

.

Do you have any empirical data to support that belief?

 

[Unkotare]

I know diesel mechanics that make more than some kid with a Bachelor's of Arts degree.

Which kid?

 

[candycorn]

Exactly the point.
Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

I think too many folks go to college because too many jobs now require them. I think it's up to the companies to change that way of thinking.

If a diesel mechanic can do just fine without a 4 year degree, why can't a fellow creating some spreadsheets on Microsoft excel be alright too?

I think the construct that 'ALL APPLICANTS MUST HAVE A FOUR YEAR DEGREE' is a thinking pattern that aught to be revised.
.

I agree to a point.
The college degree says more than, "I have studied for 4 years", it underlines your commitment or at least is supposed to. Whether or not that is the case...who knows.

I'd rather look to the guy who shows up day in and day out for 4 years on the job before just making the assumption that since someone has a 4 year degree, it means anything more than they are what society calls educated.

One thing I've noticed in our competitors is that they seem to have no problem hiring managers of entire divisions who have never set foot in a patient's room. One guy I know who was hired was an officer at an auto parts wholesaler that went belly up. Now he's working for a healthcare system as an officer--his name is on the letterhead. Okay...whatever. Where you get into big problems is when this guy hires someone, he has no problem hiring a manager who never set foot in a patient's room. Which is what he did. And, I don't know for sure but I can see it, that person would have no problem hiring people who have never done actual patient care; taken vital signs, cleaned up a spill, been on a crash team.... Eventually customer service suffers.

 

[Unkotare]

Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

Who or what determines what constitutes a "hard" subject?

 

[JoeBlam]

Assuming you go to college to get a specific set of skills it's a good idea. Back in the day kids went to get a "liberal arts" degree which meant nothing to the business world. What college does well is socialize kids to others they'd never run into otherwise....different races, cultures, ideologies. And getting a 4 year degree means you can set a goal and achieve it. Should everybody go? Nah. We neeed plumbers and welders and electriicans too....talent in those areas can provide a very good living. If it were up to me, the public universities should have to "affirmative action" at least half a staff of conservative professors so the kids wouldn't have to learn the hard way what bullshit liberal thinking is.

 

[JoeBlam]

Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

Who or what determines what constitutes a "hard" subject?

Another snark from a helpless turd with a grossly obese dog. Hey Un-boy....how about OPing something we can rip to shreds?

 

[Asclepias]

Let's try to start over, Unkotare. I'm back on the keys.

No, college isn't mandatory. However what do the prospects look like for a person who does not earn a 4-year-degree in this job market? Pretty bleak, in my opinion. Therefore I believe it is necessary these days.

And that is fine, especially if the skills learned at college are creating a stronger workforce, and in the absence of the 4-year degree our economy would be less efficient, robust, etc.

However, this is where my criticism of the system begins. I don't believe college is making a large difference in the quality of worker it is returning back to the system. I feel like in many cases our economy would function just as effectively as it does today if companies were to pick students directly out of highschool (as in the past) and save them the $60k+.

Doctors may need to attend college for many years to prepare for the job ahead, however someone who spends his/her day flipping through outlook and putting a few speadsheets together can learn much of what they need to know on the job in an apprenticeship setting.

The notion of "needing a 4-year college" degree (in my opinion) has sort of spiraled out of control in our society, and I think we need to scale things back a bit into shorter, streamlined programs that save students money and actually prepare them for the field they plan to enter into.

We can do better than a "one-size-fits-all" college education, because it's extraordinarily inefficient.

.

A 4 year degree in what?

I know diesel mechanics that make more than some kid with a Bachelor's of Arts degree.

Exactly the point.
Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

I know people with degrees in those fields that make 6 figure incomes. You are aware that you have to take other classes besides those specifically for your major right?

 

[The Rabbi]

Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

Who or what determines what constitutes a "hard" subject?

Its generally agreed upon. That's why fewer people get degrees in Math than in English.

 

[Unkotare]

Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

Who or what determines what constitutes a "hard" subject?

Another snark from a helpless turd with a grossly obese dog. Hey Un-boy....how about OPing something we can rip to shreds?

I wasn't talking to you, idiot. I was asking a legitimate question to a thoughtful poster. You want an OP? The search function works just fine. I've started lots of threads.

 

[The Rabbi]

A 4 year degree in what?

I know diesel mechanics that make more than some kid with a Bachelor's of Arts degree.

Exactly the point.
Too many people come out with degrees in African Studies. Or Gender Studies. And they are totally unqualified for anything more than min wage jobs.
Thus my statement that too many people go to college. The same people could not hack hard subjects.

I know people with degrees in those fields that make 6 figure incomes. You are aware that you have to take other classes besides those specifically for your major right?

Sure you do....