My rant..... Lying in politics

YoursTruly

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"What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon even the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories? In these stories, it doesn't matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is: 'Who is to blame?'"

Applying this idea to politics reveals a similar—and deeply damaging—dynamic.

In the political arena, the true cost of widespread lying is that it normalizes dishonesty to the point where we come to expect it from leaders. We stop being shocked by falsehoods; instead, we accept them as standard behavior. Supporters defend their preferred politicians with lies or excuses, often simply because of loyalty to the "team." Opponents may exaggerate or invent claims to paint the other side in a worse light, even when the facts alone would suffice.
Over time, this erodes public discourse and leads to several harmful outcomes:
  • Honest, truth-seeking individuals—who carefully weigh evidence before deciding—often grow disillusioned. They withdraw from politics entirely: they stop voting, stop engaging in discussions, and disengage like someone leaving a toxic relationship. Yet these are precisely the people a healthy democracy needs most—those who prioritize facts and integrity over blind allegiance.
  • On the other side, many participants (across party lines) double down on misinformation. They amplify exaggerated praise for their own side or vicious attacks on the opposition. What begins as debate devolves into a kind of performative combat—mockery, ridicule, and tribal scoring—rather than a search for what is true or best for the country.
Eventually, this creates two entrenched camps that no longer value honesty or accountability. Each side refuses to criticize its own leaders' lies or poor decisions, fearing it would hand ammunition to the "enemy" or invite "I told you so" taunts. Loyalty becomes the highest virtue—higher than truth, integrity, or responsibility. When a politician from "their" side does something identical to what they condemned on the other side, excuses and new falsehoods quickly emerge to justify it. Anyone within the group who calls for accountability is often branded a traitor.

The result is extreme polarization: roughly half the country becomes so divided and entrenched that good ideas from one side are reflexively opposed, simply because of who proposed them. Bad decisions from one's own side are defended, no matter how clearly wrong they are.

In the end, this system rewards politicians who excel at deception rather than governance. They campaign on bold promises tailored to excite their base—promising great benefits for supporters and harm to opponents—but once elected, much of that rhetoric is set aside. They may occasionally throw symbolic gestures or "red meat" statements to keep supporters energized, but in practice, their actions often resemble what the opposing side might have done. The main difference lies in how they frame and sell it through partisan language.

Ultimately, a politics built on normalized lies leaves us with leaders skilled at manipulation rather than solutions, and a citizenry more focused on winning tribal battles than pursuing shared truth or progress. The long-term price is a weakened Republic where trust, accountability, and genuine problem-solving become increasingly rare.


Here is a chapter in a book that goes deeper into this subject. (pdf)

And an article from U of C Boulder
 
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The result is extreme polarization
It's our political/electoral "system". It incentivizes and rewards the worst impulses of its participants and provides outsized influences to the extremes and to money. Moderating voices have no chance of breaking through.

There are things we could do that would change their behaviors virtually overnight, such as strict term limits, independent redistricting commissions, eliminating dark money and rehauling all financial systems, publicly-funded elections, ranked choice voting. But the American public writ large just doesn't care enough to do what it takes to make that happen.

And now it's even worse, as we have somehow allowed one profoundly damaged individual to so warp, distort and pervert the gravity around DC that he is the dividing line among our politics, our culture, and even our families.

I don't really blame these people in politics. Drop a mouse into a snake's cage, and the snake will do what a snake does. They're just operating with what they're given. We deserve this, because we don't care enough to fix it. This is about US, not them.
 
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It's our political/electoral "system". It incentivizes and rewards the worst impulses of its participants and provides outsized influences to the extremes and to money. Moderating voices have no chance of breaking through.

There are things we could do that would change their behaviors virtually overnight, such as short term limits, independent redistricting commissions, eliminating dark money and rehauling all financial systems, publicly-funded elections, ranked choice voting. But the American public writ large just doesn't care enough to do what it takes to make that happen.

And now it's even worse, as we have somehow allowed one profoundly damaged individual to so warp, distort and pervert the gravity around DC that he is the dividing line among our politics, our culture, and even our families.

I don't really blame these people in politics. Drop a mouse into a snake's cage, and the snake will do what a snake does. They're just operating with what they're given. We deserve this, because we don't care enough to fix it. This is about US, not them.

Very well said. Nailed it right down to the floor.

I might also say to your comment about "moderating voices," political loyalist even punish voices with berating and ridiculing.

Mockery masquerading as strength.
 
Very well said. Nailed it right down to the floor.

I might also say to your comment about "moderating voices," political loyalist even punish voices with berating and ridiculing.

Mockery masquerading as strength.
Yeah. This system definitely lends itself to bullying and intimidation, not collaboration and innovation.
 
"What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon even the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories? In these stories, it doesn't matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is: 'Who is to blame?'"

Applying this idea to politics reveals a similar—and deeply damaging—dynamic.

In the political arena, the true cost of widespread lying is that it normalizes dishonesty to the point where we come to expect it from leaders. We stop being shocked by falsehoods; instead, we accept them as standard behavior. Supporters defend their preferred politicians with lies or excuses, often simply because of loyalty to the "team." Opponents may exaggerate or invent claims to paint the other side in a worse light, even when the facts alone would suffice.
Over time, this erodes public discourse and leads to several harmful outcomes:
  • Honest, truth-seeking individuals—who carefully weigh evidence before deciding—often grow disillusioned. They withdraw from politics entirely: they stop voting, stop engaging in discussions, and disengage like someone leaving a toxic relationship. Yet these are precisely the people a healthy democracy needs most—those who prioritize facts and integrity over blind allegiance.
  • On the other side, many participants (across party lines) double down on misinformation. They amplify exaggerated praise for their own side or vicious attacks on the opposition. What begins as debate devolves into a kind of performative combat—mockery, ridicule, and tribal scoring—rather than a search for what is true or best for the country.
Eventually, this creates two entrenched camps that no longer value honesty or accountability. Each side refuses to criticize its own leaders' lies or poor decisions, fearing it would hand ammunition to the "enemy" or invite "I told you so" taunts. Loyalty becomes the highest virtue—higher than truth, integrity, or responsibility. When a politician from "their" side does something identical to what they condemned on the other side, excuses and new falsehoods quickly emerge to justify it. Anyone within the group who calls for accountability is often branded a traitor.

The result is extreme polarization: roughly half the country becomes so divided and entrenched that good ideas from one side are reflexively opposed, simply because of who proposed them. Bad decisions from one's own side are defended, no matter how clearly wrong they are.

In the end, this system rewards politicians who excel at deception rather than governance. They campaign on bold promises tailored to excite their base—promising great benefits for supporters and harm to opponents—but once elected, much of that rhetoric is set aside. They may occasionally throw symbolic gestures or "red meat" statements to keep supporters energized, but in practice, their actions often resemble what the opposing side might have done. The main difference lies in how they frame and sell it through partisan language.

Ultimately, a politics built on normalized lies leaves us with leaders skilled at manipulation rather than solutions, and a citizenry more focused on winning tribal battles than pursuing shared truth or progress. The long-term price is a weakened Republic where trust, accountability, and genuine problem-solving become increasingly rare.


Here is a chapter in a book that goes deeper into this subject. (pdf)

And an article from U of C Boulder
Divide & Conquer(DC), the breakfast of the profe$$ional politician$!!!
 
"What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon even the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories? In these stories, it doesn't matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is: 'Who is to blame?'"

Applying this idea to politics reveals a similar—and deeply damaging—dynamic.

In the political arena, the true cost of widespread lying is that it normalizes dishonesty to the point where we come to expect it from leaders. We stop being shocked by falsehoods; instead, we accept them as standard behavior. Supporters defend their preferred politicians with lies or excuses, often simply because of loyalty to the "team." Opponents may exaggerate or invent claims to paint the other side in a worse light, even when the facts alone would suffice.
Over time, this erodes public discourse and leads to several harmful outcomes:
  • Honest, truth-seeking individuals—who carefully weigh evidence before deciding—often grow disillusioned. They withdraw from politics entirely: they stop voting, stop engaging in discussions, and disengage like someone leaving a toxic relationship. Yet these are precisely the people a healthy democracy needs most—those who prioritize facts and integrity over blind allegiance.
  • On the other side, many participants (across party lines) double down on misinformation. They amplify exaggerated praise for their own side or vicious attacks on the opposition. What begins as debate devolves into a kind of performative combat—mockery, ridicule, and tribal scoring—rather than a search for what is true or best for the country.
Eventually, this creates two entrenched camps that no longer value honesty or accountability. Each side refuses to criticize its own leaders' lies or poor decisions, fearing it would hand ammunition to the "enemy" or invite "I told you so" taunts. Loyalty becomes the highest virtue—higher than truth, integrity, or responsibility. When a politician from "their" side does something identical to what they condemned on the other side, excuses and new falsehoods quickly emerge to justify it. Anyone within the group who calls for accountability is often branded a traitor.

The result is extreme polarization: roughly half the country becomes so divided and entrenched that good ideas from one side are reflexively opposed, simply because of who proposed them. Bad decisions from one's own side are defended, no matter how clearly wrong they are.

In the end, this system rewards politicians who excel at deception rather than governance. They campaign on bold promises tailored to excite their base—promising great benefits for supporters and harm to opponents—but once elected, much of that rhetoric is set aside. They may occasionally throw symbolic gestures or "red meat" statements to keep supporters energized, but in practice, their actions often resemble what the opposing side might have done. The main difference lies in how they frame and sell it through partisan language.

Ultimately, a politics built on normalized lies leaves us with leaders skilled at manipulation rather than solutions, and a citizenry more focused on winning tribal battles than pursuing shared truth or progress. The long-term price is a weakened Republic where trust, accountability, and genuine problem-solving become increasingly rare.


Here is a chapter in a book that goes deeper into this subject. (pdf)

And an article from U of C Boulder
Ok, who will be the truth police?

You? Yea, Biden tried to create the Department of truthiness as he censored everyone he deemed to be a liar. LOL.

The issue is the centralization of political power and the corruption that always follows. Over the years, Federalism has been subverted to the point that the Swamp runs everything and everyone now, and never holds itself to account.

The Federal government was set up to be the referee to keep peace between the states, but the referee now runs with the ball 24/7 and with no one to referee them.
 
Ok, who will be the truth police?

Loyalist on both sides won't


I already am. What you do is your own business & responsibility.


Yea, Biden tried to create the Department of truthiness as he censored everyone he deemed to be a liar. LOL.

And this is important, why? Biden wasn't honest either. That's the point of the post. The government and it's supporters don't care about honesty.


The issue is the centralization of political power and the corruption that always follows. Over the years, Federalism has been subverted to the point that the Swamp runs everything and everyone now, and never holds itself to account.

The Federal government was set up to be the referee to keep peace between the states, but the referee now runs with the ball 24/7 and with no one to referee them.

I'm in no way saying there's a solution. I mean there is. But it's not doable in todays political loyal climate. If by some miracle enough voters finally get sick of being dumped on by their party,,,,,,,, when they get tired of defending their party's wrongs, then maybe something will change. When we start holding our own accountable for lying.
 
Loyalist on both sides won't



I already am. What you do is your own business & responsibility.




And this is important, why? Biden wasn't honest either. That's the point of the post. The government and it's supporters don't care about honesty.




I'm in no way saying there's a solution. I mean there is. But it's not doable in todays political loyal climate. If by some miracle enough voters finally get sick of being dumped on by their party,,,,,,,, when they get tired of defending their party's wrongs, then maybe something will change. When we start holding our own accountable for lying.
The greatness of the Founding Fathers was understanding human nature which is desperately corrupt.

That is why they implemented Federalism.

But Leftists reject their assessment of human nature, and actually believe people are "good" at their core.

That is why the Left promotes collectivist regimes that rule with a rod of iron, believing that all you need is a "good" strong man to make heads roll. That is why they have subverted all their power to the Federal government over the years. That is why things are so bad now.
 
The greatness of the Founding Fathers was understanding human nature which is desperately corrupt.

That is why they implemented Federalism.

But Leftists reject their assessment of human nature, and actually believe people are "good" at their core.

That is why the Left promotes collectivist regimes that rule with a rod of iron, believing that all you need is a "good" strong man to make heads roll. That is why they have subverted all their power to the Federal government over the years. That is why things are so bad now.

I'm not sure what that has to do with lying in politics and those on both sides who are extremely loyal to the liars.
 
I'm not sure what that has to do with lying in politics and those on both sides who are extremely loyal to the liars.
I just explained to you that lying is human nature, yet you seem to reject the notion that it is impossible to not elect a liar.

Again, the issue is accountability, which in a centralized corrupt system, there is none.
 
Take illegal immigration, for example.

Here you have poor and uneducated people flown halfway around the world from Somalia by politicians in the US at taxpayer expense to be centralized in various voting districts where they are sure to keep in power the very people that flew them there. Then you set up fraudulent daycares that take billions of dollars of taxpayer money. So, to keep the status quo, you divy up the fraudulent tax money among immigrants, politicians, and virtually anyone within the system that might try to hold them to account.

You are then free to lie all day and night as there is no one within political power to hold them to account, because they are all on the take.

How do you fight such a system?
 
I'm not sure what that has to do with lying in politics and those on both sides who are extremely loyal to the liars.

Can you give an example of a politicians you liked, who was pushing an issue or goal you supported,

that lied in the pursuit of that, and how you reacted?
 
Can you give an example of a politicians you liked, who was pushing an issue or goal you supported,

that lied in the pursuit of that, and how you reacted?
My guess is it some progressive like FDR, who was a real POS.

I mean really, who in American history was as racist as he was as he unconstitutionally locked up Japanese Americans during WW2?

Yet the lemmings continue to vote him as one of the best presidents in US history.

There really is no hope for them.
 
As Jack Nicholson reminded us in "A Few Good Men," YOU [American voters] CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Politicians who speak truthfully and candidly will not be politicians for long, especially in Congress.

As an example of one "truth" that we cannot handle, consider the constraints imposed by the Tenth Amendment on Congressional power. The vast majority of what we call, "discretionary spending" is blatantly unconstitutional. That is, Congress lacks the Article I power to do it. Congress has NO power to spend our money on food, housing, healthcare, education, or saving the planet.

How many voters would support a Congress-person who voted down his favored program?
 
15th post
I just explained to you that lying is human nature, yet you seem to reject the notion that it is impossible to not elect a liar.

Again, the issue is accountability, which in a centralized corrupt system, there is none.

Lying should be an impeachable offense. Human nature or not, it shouldn't be "normal" for our elected officials to do it.
 
As Jack Nicholson reminded us in "A Few Good Men," YOU [American voters] CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Politicians who speak truthfully and candidly will not be politicians for long, especially in Congress.

Which is one of the reasons why we're in the mess we're in.
Lying politicians and those that support them.
 
Can you give an example of a politicians you liked, who was pushing an issue or goal you supported,

that lied in the pursuit of that, and how you reacted?

I don't support lying politicians. All the politicians I've ever supported, I did with 1 eye open.
ATM, I support Massie. But my support for him would drop in a heartbeat, if need be.
Because I'm not loyal to him.
 
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