Irreducible complexity

[Olde Europe]

For the sake of argument, let's pretend that you did prove that.

So what is your point?

If something is irreducibly complex (i.e. allegedly: life), it cannot have evolved from earlier, simpler, less complex forms. Hence, for something as complex as life to exist, there has to be a creator.

Not all life is complex[.]

First, life is incredibly complex - compared to everything else we observe on earth, even the simplest life forms.

Second, is it really that hard to understand that I was merely trying to explain what Magnificat's point was, and that I don't believe this argument is compelling?

Third, is it really absolutely necessary that you routinely omit the closing period, and give yourself the appearance of an illiterate, special-ed dunce? You are, of course, free to do so, but...

 

[rightwinger]

For the sake of argument, let's pretend that you did prove that.

So what is your point?

If something is irreducibly complex (i.e. allegedly: life), it cannot have evolved from earlier, simpler, less complex forms. Hence, for something as complex as life to exist, there has to be a creator.

Not all life is complex[.]

First, life is incredibly complex - compared to everything else we observe on earth, even the simplest life forms.

Second, is it really that hard to understand that I was merely trying to explain what Magnificat's point was, and that I don't believe this argument is compelling?

Third, is it really absolutely necessary that you routinely omit the closing period, and give yourself the appearance of an illiterate, special-ed dunce? You are, of course, free to do so, but...

Closing period?

Are you fucking nuts????

 

[OldLady]

Never been awake
Never seen a day break
Leaning on my pillow in the morning
Lazy day in bed
Music in my head
Crazy music playing in the morning light...

Ho, ho, ho It's magic, you know
Never believe it's not so
It's magic, you know
Never believe, it's not so ...

Magic (D. Paton / A. Parsons / EMI)

 

[Crepitus]

Transmissions evolved

Indeed they did ... the biology in this case was external.

That's just an odometer.

Apply motive force to the counter wheel and it's a drive train.

I suppose, but where would you mount the horse?

Tinier horse would need to evolve.

Lol, you win.

 

[anynameyouwish]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

so god isn't "an all powerful god who can do anything"....?.....he's really just a tinkerer who needs science to get things done?

 

[WinterBorn]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

Sure!

There was a time when there was a hand crank on the front of cars to start them.
No Battery


Not that long ago, VW had a whole line of air cooled cars. Some of them did very well. In fact, the old Beetles you see on the road are all at least 40 years old.
No Radiator

The Tesla is a modern electric car. The systems in the Teslas are quite different.
No Pistons, No Fuel Injectors, and No Spark Plugs

 

[WinterBorn]

Hey, dipshitzky. Can you tell us which part you can remove and still have a car? Apparently not. Proof of irreducible complexity. You lose. Thanks for playing

Comparing a car to the incredible diversity of living things is ridiculous.

But yes, on various different cars you can remove the battery, the fuel injection, the radiator, the spark plugs and the pistons.

 

[WinterBorn]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

Lol, take the battery off and put on a hand crank like Henry Ford did.

Even funnier for your silly little failed analogy is the fact that battery powered starters are part of the evolution of the modern automobile.


Oops.

Regardless of which one you use, it is required to start the car. OOPS!

Huh?

Don't know much about cars do you.

OK genius. How would you start a car without a crank or a battery?

You only asked how it could be started without a battery. The hand crank is a viable option.

 

[Wuwei]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.
Battery
Axle
Brakes
Pistons
Fuel Injector
Radiator
Transmission
Spark Plug

If your attempt is to discredit evolution you picked a poor example. Each device you outlined came through long evolutionary changes starting with the invention of the wheel. Your example illustrates evolution in technology which is contrary to your attempt to discredit evolution.

.

 

[Magnificat]

But life isn't irreducibly complex.

It's already been proven that the most elemental building blocks of life can indeed be created by the environment of the early earth. One self-replicating life exists, evolution is inevitable.

That doesn't remove the possibility of a creator. It merely pushes back the notion of where the creator stopped creating and let his creation build itself.

Gawd.

If it isn't, then I got lucky I didn't assert it is "irreducibly complex".

The most "elemental building blocks of life" isn't the same as life, and we don't yet know how to get from the former to the latter. And evolution is inevitable only insofar as self-replication is prone to error.

There is no way to remove the possibility of a creator. But, if all we see can be explained to have evolved, it removes the necessity of a creator to explain it.

And THAT is exactly what atheists want, more than anything else. A world without God. They'll get their wish, someday. In hell. Fools!

 

[Magnificat]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.
Battery
Axle
Brakes
Pistons
Fuel Injector
Radiator
Transmission
Spark Plug

If your attempt is to discredit evolution you picked a poor example. Each device you outlined came through long evolutionary changes starting with the invention of the wheel. Your example illustrates evolution in technology which is contrary to your attempt to discredit evolution.

.

Idiot. You just shot yourself in the foot. Cars do not evolve. They are designed and built by intelligent people. Lolol

 

[WinterBorn]

But life isn't irreducibly complex.

It's already been proven that the most elemental building blocks of life can indeed be created by the environment of the early earth. One self-replicating life exists, evolution is inevitable.

That doesn't remove the possibility of a creator. It merely pushes back the notion of where the creator stopped creating and let his creation build itself.

Gawd.

If it isn't, then I got lucky I didn't assert it is "irreducibly complex".

The most "elemental building blocks of life" isn't the same as life, and we don't yet know how to get from the former to the latter. And evolution is inevitable only insofar as self-replication is prone to error.

There is no way to remove the possibility of a creator. But, if all we see can be explained to have evolved, it removes the necessity of a creator to explain it.

And THAT is exactly what atheists want, more than anything else. A world without God. They'll get their wish, someday. In hell. Fools!

Oh please. An atheist does not believe in god. Why would he want a world without something he does not believe in? Ridiculous.

And I do not care at all that you believe. In fact, I will fight to defend your right to worship.

 

[WinterBorn]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.
Battery
Axle
Brakes
Pistons
Fuel Injector
Radiator
Transmission
Spark Plug

If your attempt is to discredit evolution you picked a poor example. Each device you outlined came through long evolutionary changes starting with the invention of the wheel. Your example illustrates evolution in technology which is contrary to your attempt to discredit evolution.

.

Idiot. You just shot yourself in the foot. Cars do not evolve. They are designed and built by intelligent people. Lolol

Why do you only look at cars? Why not look at the entire line of transportation? Start with riding animals, move to using carts and wagons, and end up with the most modern and technologically advanced modes of transportation.

 

[Magnificat]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

so god isn't "an all powerful god who can do anything"....?.....he's really just a tinkerer who needs science to get things done?

God created science. Then he created a universe that obeys the laws of science. Pretty incredible. Isn't it?

 

[WinterBorn]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

so god isn't "an all powerful god who can do anything"....?.....he's really just a tinkerer who needs science to get things done?

God created science. Then he created a universe that obeys the laws of science. Pretty incredible. Isn't it?

If that is what you believe. If you want to believe the Genesis version of creation, that is fine. If you want to believe that god created life via evolution, that is fine too.

I simply argue when you make ridiculous statements concerning other people's views.

 

[rightwinger]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.
Battery
Axle
Brakes
Pistons
Fuel Injector
Radiator
Transmission
Spark Plug

If your attempt is to discredit evolution you picked a poor example. Each device you outlined came through long evolutionary changes starting with the invention of the wheel. Your example illustrates evolution in technology which is contrary to your attempt to discredit evolution.

.

Idiot. You just shot yourself in the foot. Cars do not evolve. They are designed and built by intelligent people. Lolol

Cars evolved from horse drawn carriages

 

[rightwinger]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

so god isn't "an all powerful god who can do anything"....?.....he's really just a tinkerer who needs science to get things done?

God created science. Then he created a universe that obeys the laws of science. Pretty incredible. Isn't it?

Then he stepped aside

 

[Crepitus]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

Lol, take the battery off and put on a hand crank like Henry Ford did.

Even funnier for your silly little failed analogy is the fact that battery powered starters are part of the evolution of the modern automobile.


Oops.

Regardless of which one you use, it is required to start the car. OOPS!

Huh?

Don't know much about cars do you.

OK genius. How would you start a car without a crank or a battery?

You only asked how it could be started without a battery. The hand crank is a viable option.

Yeah, them rascally goalposts have been jumping all over the place in this thread.

 

[Third Party]

So now God created the automobile is there anything he doesn't take credit for?

Yes, since he created man and woman, he still doesn't get the bi, gay, transgender, hermaphrodite.

 

[Hollie]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

so god isn't "an all powerful god who can do anything"....?.....he's really just a tinkerer who needs science to get things done?

God created science. Then he created a universe that obeys the laws of science. Pretty incredible. Isn't it?

What's incredible is your presumption that anyone should blindly accept such an unsupported, baseless claim.