Irreducible complexity

[rightwinger]

And on the seventh day......Henry Ford rested

 

[Magnificat]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

You do get that, for the most part, cars aren't biological creatures, right?

Doesn't matter. Does it?

It matters a lot ... evolution is a biological process. Non-biological things cannot evolve.

Irrelevant. I have proven that something can be irreducibly complex.

Apples and light bulbs ... you haven't proven anything.

Nevertheless a car requires a minimum number of parts in order to function. You can't refute that. Why would it be any different for life?

 

[rightwinger]

So can we restart the thread now?

Dont have to

She will keep repeating the same nonsense

 

[fncceo]

A Rotary Engine does not have pistons

The rotor performs the function of the pistons.

Not a piston

How about a Turbine engine?

I wish I had a turbine engine car ... that would be radical.

 

[fncceo]

You do get that, for the most part, cars aren't biological creatures, right?

Doesn't matter. Does it?

It matters a lot ... evolution is a biological process. Non-biological things cannot evolve.

Irrelevant. I have proven that something can be irreducibly complex.

Apples and light bulbs ... you haven't proven anything.

Nevertheless a car requires a minimum number of parts in order to function. You can't refute that. Why would it be any different for life?

Life does require a minimum number of parts to function. It must have the ability to metabolize and the ability to pass on encoded material to its progeny.

Literally everything else an organism might possess is a factory option.

Once life begins, evolution is inevitable.

 

[Magnificat]

Doesn't matter. Does it?

It matters a lot ... evolution is a biological process. Non-biological things cannot evolve.

Irrelevant. I have proven that something can be irreducibly complex.

Apples and light bulbs ... you haven't proven anything.

Nevertheless a car requires a minimum number of parts in order to function. You can't refute that. Why would it be any different for life?

Life does require a minimum number of parts to function. It must have the ability to metabolize and the ability to pass on encoded material to its progeny.

Literally everything else an organism might possess is a factory option.

Once life begins, evolution is inevitable.

Even if this is true, you must have life before it can evolve. However, centuries of observation have proven that life comes only from life. It cannot evolve from lifeless chemicals.

 

[rightwinger]

A Rotary Engine does not have pistons

The rotor performs the function of the pistons.

Not a piston

How about a Turbine engine?

I wish I had a turbine engine car ... that would be radical.

I remember the Indy 500 when they had a turbine car
That thing dominated

 

[fncceo]

It matters a lot ... evolution is a biological process. Non-biological things cannot evolve.

Irrelevant. I have proven that something can be irreducibly complex.

Apples and light bulbs ... you haven't proven anything.

Nevertheless a car requires a minimum number of parts in order to function. You can't refute that. Why would it be any different for life?

Life does require a minimum number of parts to function. It must have the ability to metabolize and the ability to pass on encoded material to its progeny.

Literally everything else an organism might possess is a factory option.

Once life begins, evolution is inevitable.

Even if this is true, you must have life before it can evolve. However, centuries of observation have proven that life comes only from life. It cannot evolve from lifeless chemicals.

You've been misinformed. The famous Miller-Urey experiment (which as been repeated countless times) has proven without a doubt that organic molecules, including dozens of different amino acids, can spontaneously assemble in conditions similar to those of the early earth.

Some of these crude organic molecules are even capable of making copies of themselves.

As it turns out, the jump from inorganic to organic chemistry is easier than anyone could have imagined.

 

[Crepitus]

Lol, take the battery off and put on a hand crank like Henry Ford did.

Even funnier for your silly little failed analogy is the fact that battery powered starters are part of the evolution of the modern automobile.


Oops.

Regardless of which one you use, it is required to start the car. OOPS!

Huh?

Don't know much about cars do you.

OK genius. How would you start a car without a crank or a battery?

Thats already been explained to you. Find a hill and put it in neutral.

Gee. That would be great if your car was at the top of a hill. And just how would you get back up that hill? Quit being a troll. You need a way to start the car, no matter what it is. And I'll bet you can't name another part that could be removed without causing more than a monumental inconvenience.

You don't necessarily need a transmission. Early steam cars didn't have one.

 

[rightwinger]

Regardless of which one you use, it is required to start the car. OOPS!

Huh?

Don't know much about cars do you.

OK genius. How would you start a car without a crank or a battery?

Thats already been explained to you. Find a hill and put it in neutral.

Gee. That would be great if your car was at the top of a hill. And just how would you get back up that hill? Quit being a troll. You need a way to start the car, no matter what it is. And I'll bet you can't name another part that could be removed without causing more than a monumental inconvenience.

You don't necessarily need a transmission. Early steam cars didn't have one.

Transmissions evolved

 

[Crepitus]

Huh?

Don't know much about cars do you.

OK genius. How would you start a car without a crank or a battery?

Thats already been explained to you. Find a hill and put it in neutral.

Gee. That would be great if your car was at the top of a hill. And just how would you get back up that hill? Quit being a troll. You need a way to start the car, no matter what it is. And I'll bet you can't name another part that could be removed without causing more than a monumental inconvenience.

You don't necessarily need a transmission. Early steam cars didn't have one.

Transmissions evolved

Indeed.

 

[Crepitus]

Only God can make a car

And it turned out to be a Chrysler.

I'm the anti-Chrysler.

My Dakota just took an instant dislike to you.

 

[rightwinger]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

Electric cars do not have pistons, fuel injectors, radiators or spark plugs

You lose

 

[fncceo]

Huh?

Don't know much about cars do you.

OK genius. How would you start a car without a crank or a battery?

Thats already been explained to you. Find a hill and put it in neutral.

Gee. That would be great if your car was at the top of a hill. And just how would you get back up that hill? Quit being a troll. You need a way to start the car, no matter what it is. And I'll bet you can't name another part that could be removed without causing more than a monumental inconvenience.

You don't necessarily need a transmission. Early steam cars didn't have one.

Transmissions evolved

Indeed they did ... the biology in this case was external.

 

[Magnificat]

Irrelevant. I have proven that something can be irreducibly complex.

Apples and light bulbs ... you haven't proven anything.

Nevertheless a car requires a minimum number of parts in order to function. You can't refute that. Why would it be any different for life?

Life does require a minimum number of parts to function. It must have the ability to metabolize and the ability to pass on encoded material to its progeny.

Literally everything else an organism might possess is a factory option.

Once life begins, evolution is inevitable.

Even if this is true, you must have life before it can evolve. However, centuries of observation have proven that life comes only from life. It cannot evolve from lifeless chemicals.

You've been misinformed. The famous Miller-Urey experiment (which as been repeated countless times) has proven without a doubt that organic molecules, including dozens of different amino acids, can spontaneously assemble in conditions similar to those of the early earth.

Some of these crude organic molecules are even capable of making copies of themselves.

As it turns out, the jump from inorganic to organic chemistry is easier than anyone could have imagined.

Talking points. Is that all you've got? Let's refute what you said, although it's already been done countless times. First of all, that experiment did not create ALL of the amino acids required for life. Second, it produced equal amounts of left and right-handed amino acids. DNA and proteins must have either left-handed or right-handed amino acids. If they have even one of the wrong handedness it doesn't function. Then there is the problem of information. All life is the result of information. DNA is copied, and proteins are created by a self-replicating assembler. Something which requires programming in order to carry out it's tasks. Nature plus random chance, even if they could construct such a device, could never program it. Educate yourself. Your ignorance offends me greatly.

 

[Crepitus]

OK genius. How would you start a car without a crank or a battery?

Thats already been explained to you. Find a hill and put it in neutral.

Gee. That would be great if your car was at the top of a hill. And just how would you get back up that hill? Quit being a troll. You need a way to start the car, no matter what it is. And I'll bet you can't name another part that could be removed without causing more than a monumental inconvenience.

You don't necessarily need a transmission. Early steam cars didn't have one.

Transmissions evolved

Indeed they did ... the biology in this case was external.

That's just an odometer.

 

[fncceo]

Thats already been explained to you. Find a hill and put it in neutral.

Gee. That would be great if your car was at the top of a hill. And just how would you get back up that hill? Quit being a troll. You need a way to start the car, no matter what it is. And I'll bet you can't name another part that could be removed without causing more than a monumental inconvenience.

You don't necessarily need a transmission. Early steam cars didn't have one.

Transmissions evolved

Indeed they did ... the biology in this case was external.

That's just an odometer.

Apply motive force to the counter wheel and it's a drive train.

 

[Crepitus]

Gee. That would be great if your car was at the top of a hill. And just how would you get back up that hill? Quit being a troll. You need a way to start the car, no matter what it is. And I'll bet you can't name another part that could be removed without causing more than a monumental inconvenience.

You don't necessarily need a transmission. Early steam cars didn't have one.

Transmissions evolved

Indeed they did ... the biology in this case was external.

That's just an odometer.

Apply motive force to the counter wheel and it's a drive train.

I suppose, but where would you mount the horse?

 

[Olde Europe]

Atheists will try to tell us that this is not a valid argument. Let's apply this argument to something modern and concrete. The automobile. In its simplest form, it is irreducibly complex.

Battery
So you want to turn your car on? Obviously, this is the big boy you're going to need to get everything going.

Axle
Another important part of any car. How are you going to keep the fun rolling without these?

Brakes
Having trusty brakes is essential to driving a safe car. When you start to hear those things squeak at red lights, it might be time to head into the shop and get some new ones.

Pistons
These are best when they're pumping smoothly and quickly. Built to handle all those gasoline explosions, these are where your car gets its horses.

Fuel Injector
The successor to the carburetor, this little thing gets the gas from the fuel tank into the engine.

Radiator
The radiator is part of the system that keeps your car's engine from overheating. Here, the engine coolant has time to give off heat into the air before it goes back into the engine to pick up...more heat.

Transmission
Here's where the power turns into movement. The transmission takes the energy generated in the engine and transmits it to the connected wheels.

Spark Plug
The spark plug is what you use to get the car started. It uses an electric spark to ignite fuel in the engine's ignition chamber.

Now, can anyone tell me which part you can remove and still have a car that you would trust your life in? Take your time. I'll wait.

All of the above:

Well, except for the axles, maybe brakes.

The "irreducibly complex" argument suffers from a fatal flaw, as it halts evolution, and thus disingenuously asserts that what existed before has by necessity the same qualities as that which came after. That's all a trick with words, resting on the fact that how life evolved - yes, probably through a variety of stages of different complexity, for which evidence is not to be had a billion years later - remains a puzzle. Our ignorance as to mother nature's capabilities does not a creator prove.

 

[fncceo]

You don't necessarily need a transmission. Early steam cars didn't have one.

Transmissions evolved

Indeed they did ... the biology in this case was external.

That's just an odometer.

Apply motive force to the counter wheel and it's a drive train.

I suppose, but where would you mount the horse?

Tinier horse would need to evolve.