Immigration & Politics

[zeke]

And as for the "capitalists," I regret to say that in my experience "illegals" work longer and harder, and complain much less about their troubles than do our American compatriots at The Bottom. So why wouldn't they be hired first?

There you go. What I've been saying.

 

[Rotagilla]

I want the borders secured. I want those here on a visa leaving when their visa expires. I want those who are here illegally out of our schools, our hospitals, our welfare system.

Do you also want to pay increased labor rates for all the construction industry? Cause that's what would happen.
Your 6 thousand dollar roof just went to 10k. I am good with that but are you?

unfounded speculation and excuses.

No its not. Try using Google. Look up illegals and the construction industry. See what people in the industry say would happen with out illegals doing so much of the work that you can't get poor Americans to do.

And the problem is that for around 100 dollars a day, you can get a Mexican that works hard and is good at the job.

For 100 dollars a day for an American poor person, you would be lucky if they came back from lunch. Let alone know what they are doing.

The welfare state has disincentivized (that ain't a word) the working poor American. They think they shouldn't have to work so damn hard for 100 bucks.

At least that's been my experience.

It's speculation..they can't prove it one way or another...You get that, right?
If you close the border, the source of cheap labor dries up, wages rise and more americans work...Stop trying to make excuses to leave our border open.

Some of the rest I agree with.

Close and enforce the border immediately.
Deport all illegals.

No "immigration reform" that includes anything like "amnesty" or allowing anyone already here illegally to stay...and no word games or semantic distortions to "redefine" terms.

 

[Disir]

And there you have it. The Republicans and the Democrats won't have immigration reform because cheap labor is more important

 

[zeke]

It's speculation..they can't prove it one way or another...You get that, right?
If you close the border, the source of cheap labor dries up, wages rise and more americans work...Stop trying to make excuses to leave our border open.

I don't really give a shit whether you think it can be proved or not. I know that it can and you didn't even bother to look.

But I am my own construction person. I am not hiring illegals for anything. If you think spending more money for lower quality construction work is something you can support and get behind, have at it.

When the contractor you hired for some work doesn't show up with a crew, just listen to the excuses he makes.
When the bid you had goes up 20% and you wonder why, it's that increased cost of labor.

No big deal. But Americans should be aware of what you all are asking for. Higher prices on construction projects in the residential market.

 

[zeke]

And there you have it. The Republicans and the Democrats won't have immigration reform because cheap labor is more important

Exactly.

And it is a great way to keep ALL wages on the low side.

And you never hear of the Republicans wanting to go after the employers of illegals.
And Democrats don't want to piss off the Mexican Americans who can vote.

Cheap labor has always been a building block of American capitalism. We love us some cheap workers.
Why you think American corporations love exporting our manufacturing jobs.

And we wouldn't have this problem if you could export your house to Mexico to get a roof. But the construction field is the one area where you can't export the job. It's got to be done HERE. So we have illegals doing work Americans don't want to do.

 

[Seawytch]

I love how Seawytch continues to spread the lie that Obama is deporting more people... When the numbers she uses included people refused entry at the border.. something never counted before.

Then they don't look at how many illegals Obama has allowed to stay or those who have come here because of Obama's policies.. Both numbers would be much, much higher than the same numbers under President Bush.

Using numbers to spread lies.. A Liberal specialty for decades.

I love how you dismiss actual numbers and links...to simply pull facts out of your ass with no links.

The borders are secure...people are already here (thanks Reagan). You can't deport the people that are here, it's simply unrealistic...but you conservatives thrive on the unrealistic.

 

[Disir]

And there you have it. The Republicans and the Democrats won't have immigration reform because cheap labor is more important

Exactly.

And it is a great way to keep ALL wages on the low side.

And you never hear of the Republicans wanting to go after the employers of illegals.
And Democrats don't want to piss off the Mexican Americans who can vote.

Cheap labor has always been a building block of American capitalism. We love us some cheap workers.
Why you think American corporations love exporting our manufacturing jobs.

And we wouldn't have this problem if you could export your house to Mexico to get a roof. But the construction field is the one area where you can't export the job. It's got to be done HERE. So we have illegals doing work Americans don't want to do.

for cheap.

That is the rest of your sentence.
But, it's not just construction. It's restaurants, hotels, etc.

Not to mention the H1B visas where they legally come here and learn all about how to operate and work in a skilled job and then move the entire company overseas. Both the Democrats and the Republicans love this one. They love to pretend that there is a STEM shortage.

All jobs are being outsourced. This includes banking and legal work.

Sorry folks, you can't have it all.

At some point, American citizens come first. For real.

 

[Mac1958]

Low income Americans didn't want to do those jobs to start with.

That has nothing to do with it. You get yet another A+ for missing the point entirely.

Congrats, Job.

I've finally determined that the intellectual capacity just isn't there.

Not one moment of thought given to wage structure.

.

.

If the GOP were smart -- and I'm tempted to bold the word "if" and use the largest possible font -- they would avoid hysterics and hyperbole over Obama's immigration move and calmly and clearly point out the obvious:

Low-income Americans are about to see five million job competitors legalized. All at once.

Okay, proceed with the hysterics and hyperbole.

.

If you support capitalism you support the rich to exploit the poorer against the poor...

Your perception of capitalism.

I know how much you folks dislike it, I get it.

.

Since I am an entrepreneur/self employed business owner, you don't know shit from shinola....I am the one doing the hiring and the last person I would hire is an illegal.

As a business owner with +/- 80 business owner clients - with whom I work very closely on their finances - I do happen to know shit from shinola.

And these five million are no longer going to be illegal.

That's the whole point.

.

Neither will they be full US citizens. They will, however, start paying more taxes instead of working "under the table".

So Mac, do you support the enforcement of immigration laws?

Yes, once the dust has settled.

If what Obama is doing is simply granting legal, work permit status on these people, I don't think there is a better option.

If this is a political move, and the Democrats are merely doing this to change the rules again and make these people voters, not so much. And since I assign politicians and partisan ideologues exactly zero trust or credibility, I'm not thrilled with any of this.

Yes, I think any country should have complete control of its borders. And once these people are given work permit status, we need to make it clear that we are re-booting the laws and will begin to enforce them like any other sovereign country.

.

 

[Mac1958]

.

If the GOP were smart -- and I'm tempted to bold the word "if" and use the largest possible font -- they would avoid hysterics and hyperbole over Obama's immigration move and calmly and clearly point out the obvious:

Low-income Americans are about to see five million job competitors legalized. All at once.

Okay, proceed with the hysterics and hyperbole.

.

Low income Americans didn't want to do those jobs to start with.

That has nothing to do with it. You get yet another A+ for missing the point entirely.

Congrats, Job.

I've finally determined that the intellectual capacity just isn't there.

Not one moment of thought given to wage structure.

.

Truth up. What you received is the canned answer from the left wing. To believe them there are jobs that are just waiting for low income people to work. Work that is not getting done today. Or that those same low income people are not going to take already exisisting jobs on the lower tier which Americans definitely work.

That said, what is your appraisal of why they are so intent on doing what Obama is doing? Do you really think it is nothing more then bring in voters?

I don't trust politicians, so yeah, I think it's possible that this is nothing more than a cynical, dishonest voter drive.

But I don't know for sure. And I'm also not sure that it wouldn't backfire on the Dems.

.

 

[Redfish]

I'm missing the point here, these people are already here and are working already, they are contributing a lot more than our congress has in the past six years or even more. The right wing in America and its corporate sponsors love that the enemy is defined so they can outsource and hide their money off shore, meanwhile the wingnuts worry over other immigrants for we are all immigrants to the nation and to the world. Last I checked working people contribute more than talking people.

they are here ILLEGALLY, the violated our laws and entered our country illegally. Do you know what ILLEGAL means?

We have immigration laws, we are not enforcing them. No other country in the world does that.

WTF is wrong with you?

We're not enforcing them? On what planet?

please post a similar chart on the numbers of illegal entries by year. One facit of our immigration law is a secure border, we are not enforcing that.

Name one other country in the world that allows its borders to be crossed illegally by millions.

Millions Fishy? Did someone have hyperbole flakes for breakfast? You want those stats, you go find them and post them.

CNN Fact Check: Illegal border crossings at lowest levels in 40 years

We are talking about the total number of illegals in the country today, Yes, it is millions.

 

[Redfish]

.

If the GOP were smart -- and I'm tempted to bold the word "if" and use the largest possible font -- they would avoid hysterics and hyperbole over Obama's immigration move and calmly and clearly point out the obvious:

Low-income Americans are about to see five million job competitors legalized. All at once.

Okay, proceed with the hysterics and hyperbole.

.

Low income Americans didn't want to do those jobs to start with.

Says who? I see Americans working them everyday. I guess what you are saying is what I suspected, the only reason the democrats are for this is because it is modern slavery. Low paid no benefit jobs.

Except that the illegals are making much better money here than they would have in Mexico. Where they also would have no benefits and possibly no job either.

Talk to a roofer. No way would that make as much money in Mexico. What the ones I have met do, is work till the weather gets cold. They sent half their earnings back home and live like kings during our winter months. Then they come back and do it again.

Here they have work. And if they fall off a roof, they still get medical care.

then let them come here legally. Obey our laws and no one will have a problem with it.

 

[Redfish]

I want the borders secured. I want those here on a visa leaving when their visa expires. I want those who are here illegally out of our schools, our hospitals, our welfare system.

Do you also want to pay increased labor rates for all the construction industry? Cause that's what would happen.
Your 6 thousand dollar roof just went to 10k. I am good with that but are you?

This is an argument that is continuously made. It was made as recently as 2006.
U.S. economy gets lift from immigrants though some hurt - May. 1 2006

You won't see many conservatives address this issue because they might have to backtrack on other issues. Right now they are only willing to discuss unskilled workers. The biggest mistake that they made was tying it into fear and racism. The reality is that you have had displaced low wage workers for over 20 years.

mexican is NOTa race,

 

[Disir]

mexican is NOTa race,

Neither is Polish. Oddly enough they are missing from your diatribe. No?

 

[Redfish]

This is an argument that is continuously made. It was made as recently as 2006.
U.S. economy gets lift from immigrants though some hurt - May. 1 2006

You won't see many conservatives address this issue because they might have to backtrack on other issues. Right now they are only willing to discuss unskilled workers. The biggest mistake that they made was tying it into fear and racism. The reality is that you have had displaced low wage workers for over 20 years.

mexican is NOTa race,[/QUOTE]

I want the borders secured. I want those here on a visa leaving when their visa expires. I want those who are here illegally out of our schools, our hospitals, our welfare system.

Do you also want to pay increased labor rates for all the construction industry? Cause that's what would happen.
Your 6 thousand dollar roof just went to 10k. I am good with that but are you?

This is an argument that is continuously made. It was made as recently as 2006.
U.S. economy gets lift from immigrants though some hurt - May. 1 2006

You won't see many conservatives address this issue because they might have to backtrack on other issues. Right now they are only willing to discuss unskilled workers. The biggest mistake that they made was tying it into fear and racism. The reality is that you have had displaced low wage workers for over 20 years.

mexican is NOTa race,

Neither is Polish. Oddly enough they are missing from your diatribe. No?[/QUOTE]


I don't recall any libs wanting special rights for pollocks because of their "race".

 

[Disir]

This is an argument that is continuously made. It was made as recently as 2006.
U.S. economy gets lift from immigrants though some hurt - May. 1 2006

You won't see many conservatives address this issue because they might have to backtrack on other issues. Right now they are only willing to discuss unskilled workers. The biggest mistake that they made was tying it into fear and racism. The reality is that you have had displaced low wage workers for over 20 years.

mexican is NOTa race,

I want the borders secured. I want those here on a visa leaving when their visa expires. I want those who are here illegally out of our schools, our hospitals, our welfare system.

Do you also want to pay increased labor rates for all the construction industry? Cause that's what would happen.
Your 6 thousand dollar roof just went to 10k. I am good with that but are you?

This is an argument that is continuously made. It was made as recently as 2006.
U.S. economy gets lift from immigrants though some hurt - May. 1 2006

You won't see many conservatives address this issue because they might have to backtrack on other issues. Right now they are only willing to discuss unskilled workers. The biggest mistake that they made was tying it into fear and racism. The reality is that you have had displaced low wage workers for over 20 years.

mexican is NOTa race,

Neither is Polish. Oddly enough they are missing from your diatribe. No?[/QUOTE]


I don't recall any libs wanting special rights for pollocks because of their "race".[/QUOTE]

I don't recall any right wingers allowing a conversation outside of brown to occur.

 

[Redfish]

This is an argument that is continuously made. It was made as recently as 2006.
U.S. economy gets lift from immigrants though some hurt - May. 1 2006

You won't see many conservatives address this issue because they might have to backtrack on other issues. Right now they are only willing to discuss unskilled workers. The biggest mistake that they made was tying it into fear and racism. The reality is that you have had displaced low wage workers for over 20 years.

mexican is NOTa race,

I want the borders secured. I want those here on a visa leaving when their visa expires. I want those who are here illegally out of our schools, our hospitals, our welfare system.

Do you also want to pay increased labor rates for all the construction industry? Cause that's what would happen.
Your 6 thousand dollar roof just went to 10k. I am good with that but are you?

This is an argument that is continuously made. It was made as recently as 2006.
U.S. economy gets lift from immigrants though some hurt - May. 1 2006

You won't see many conservatives address this issue because they might have to backtrack on other issues. Right now they are only willing to discuss unskilled workers. The biggest mistake that they made was tying it into fear and racism. The reality is that you have had displaced low wage workers for over 20 years.

mexican is NOTa race,

Neither is Polish. Oddly enough they are missing from your diatribe. No?

I don't recall any libs wanting special rights for pollocks because of their "race".[/QUOTE]

I don't recall any right wingers allowing a conversation outside of brown to occur.[/QUOTE]


are you crazy, the immigration debate is not about skin color. WTF is wrong with you? Its about enforcing our laws, nothing more.

 

[Disir]

are you crazy, the immigration debate is not about skin color. WTF is wrong with you? Its about enforcing our laws, nothing more.

You're the one that assumed it was all Mexican. Try again.

 

[Rotagilla]

are you crazy, the immigration debate is not about skin color. WTF is wrong with you? Its about enforcing our laws, nothing more.

You're the one that assumed it was all Mexican. Try again.

Stop evading...
No one cares WHAT RACE is involved."Illegal" means they are not allowed to be here. "Illegal" doesn't specify race.

We want the damned border closed and enforced...you racists are the ones trying to make it all about race.

 

[Redfish]

are you crazy, the immigration debate is not about skin color. WTF is wrong with you? Its about enforcing our laws, nothing more.

You're the one that assumed it was all Mexican. Try again.

horseshit, you libs make everything about race, you even make up races when there isn't a racial issue. "brown" is not a race. You look like an idiot.

 

[Rotagilla]

well, we'll never see her again in this thread....not with a relevant, on topic comment, anyway.