i can see this turning ugly

[blu]

but its not brainwashing, its part of their guidelines as their beliefs about gays, etc don't align with her christian beliefs (although not all chritsians believe as her either)... I do agree with you that she should have left the school. I know that at least 1 christian school must have a counseling program and could also help her get a job at a christian based counseling place after graduation. that way should could have performed her eventual career without violating the guidelines of her degree and accreditation

NO IT'S NOT, you fucking idiot.

Kindly link where it's a requirement of any degree to BELIEVE in any particular science. Or where you can have a degree denied to you based on your religion.

What a piece of shit you are.

If you're trying to get a job as a counselor, you need to fit the American Counseling Association Code of Ethics, which prohibits discrimination against LGBT people. If you choose the bible over the ACA's Code of Ethics, you can't be a counselor.

I don't think that she should be prevented from getting a degree, but it's pretty clear she wouldn't be able to work as a counselor.

exactly, its like a secular person trying to get a counseling degree from a christian school. why would the school allow that person to put the school at risk and graduate them knowing it would be constant ethics and guidelines violations?

 

[blu]

And what of the GLBT students this woman may someday encounter? Where's our compassion for them? If she is unable to deal with people with dignity, respect and knowledge, she cannot be a public school counselor.

Who said she would be unable to do that?

she doesn't agrree with the code of ethics of her school and associated professional organization. its quite implied

 

[AllieBaba]

You can't be FAILED in those classes based on your opinion of whether or not the science is true, if you pass the classes.

Do people really believe that teachers have a right to tell you what you can say outside of the classroom?

 

[Wry Catcher]

All she needs to do is to march right up to Regent University, she can get her degree without any problem or questioning of her beliefs (so long as they are consistent with Pat Robertson's). However, sometimes Christian values come into conflict with the law. Speaking of such conflicts, anyone know whatever happened to Monica Goodling?

 

[Immanuel]

but its not brainwashing, its part of their guidelines as their beliefs about gays, etc don't align with her christian beliefs (although not all chritsians believe as her either)... I do agree with you that she should have left the school. I know that at least 1 christian school must have a counseling program and could also help her get a job at a christian based counseling place after graduation. that way should could have performed her eventual career without violating the guidelines of her degree and accreditation

I disagree with you, my friend.

They want to brainwash her so that they can graduate her.

That is what they mean by "remediation". They want to place her in their little camp and change her beliefs. They are supposed to teach not "re-educate" to their political way of thinking.

Immie

but what if she was becoming a doctor and didn't believe in modern science or was graduating in biology and was planning on teaching future students that evolution was fake? the profession has to hold its member to standards or how would you know who to trust?

She has completed all courses to date. Now they want to deny her the right to complete her degree.

If she wanted to be a doctor she would have to pass the medical exams. She is not required to believe in medicine.

If she wants the become a biologist, she has to be able to pass the science classes that her degree requires and then get a job as a biologist. She is not required to believe in evolution.

To get my degree in Finance, I was not required to believe in either"Trickle Down Economics" or Obama's "Flood the Basement Economics". I was required to pass the tests that were given to me.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

And what of the GLBT students this woman may someday encounter? Where's our compassion for them? If she is unable to deal with people with dignity, respect and knowledge, she cannot be a public school counselor.

Who said she would be unable to do that?

she doesn't agrree with the code of ethics of her school and associated professional organization. its quite implied

By "implied" you mean made up.

 

[blu]

NO IT'S NOT, you fucking idiot.

Kindly link where it's a requirement of any degree to BELIEVE in any particular science. Or where you can have a degree denied to you based on your religion.

What a piece of shit you are.

1) its not based on her being christian. christians, like all other religions, are allowed to attend and graduate from the school. on top of that her "christian" vviews don't even fit in with accepted knowledge of many churhc members, especially in regards to being gay not being a choice, etc

2) you do have to believe in the professions code of ethics if you want to work int hat profession. see my previous post about doctors etc

Er..yes, it is about her being Christian and about her daring to publicly avow herself as Christian.

Don't even start the stupid gay choice thing.

its not about her being a christian because even if she wasn't a christian and held the same beliefs, she would not be allowed to graduate aka her religion doesn't matter here

and the "gay choice thing" is one of the most important disagreements she has

 

[blu]

"She has stated that she believes sexual behavior is the result of accountable personal choice rather than an inevitability deriving from deterministic forces. She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created. Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'"

If a counseling program does not want its students expressing ideas that the program considers harmful to those being counseled, than the institution is within their rights to expel her.

In other words, if in order to graduate from this program, one needs to demonstrate an ability to counsel homosexuals, and she cannot demonstrate this ability (as is clear through her statements), then she cannot graduate.

No Young-Earther will ever be allowed to graduate from an accredited Evolutionary Biology program, as it should be.

Should a medical school give a degree and license to someone who only believes in faith healing?

Bingo. A degree is not a right, but rather a credential. If you cannot fulfill all the requirements of the credential, you do not deserve the credential.

Then since they want to impose their unwarranted beliefs on what a school counselor should believe, they should refund every dime she has had to pay including tuition, book and student fees to her and let her continue her education at a school that does not impose its irreligious and liberal point of view on students.

Immie

the student knew it was a secular school and that christian schools exist with counseling programs. why would she set her self up for failure ?

 

[Wry Catcher]

You can't be FAILED in those classes based on your opinion of whether or not the science is true, if you pass the classes.

Do people really believe that teachers have a right to tell you what you can say outside of the classroom?

Apparently the five conservative justices of the Supreme Court so believe. "Bong hits for Jesus" ring a bell?

 

[WillowTree]

Should a medical school give a degree and license to someone who only believes in faith healing?

if they follow the syllabus, pass the course, and pas the boards why not? and ps,, the school doesn't give a degree, it is earned and they surely don't give a license. that's a function of a state.

 

[blu]

You can't be FAILED in those classes based on your opinion of whether or not the science is true, if you pass the classes.

Do people really believe that teachers have a right to tell you what you can say outside of the classroom?

outside the classroom in general, no

while performing your profession, then yes the governing body and code of ethics/conduct limit what you can do

 

[Ravi]

Ga. School Forces Christian Student to Alter Beliefs to Graduate | Christianpost.com

I don't really know how all of this works, so i think I will stay out of it for now

As long as she does the coursework and gets passing grades they have no right to penalize her.

She has a great career ahead of her "fixing" teh gay.

 

[syrenn]

"She has stated that she believes sexual behavior is the result of accountable personal choice rather than an inevitability deriving from deterministic forces. She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created. Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'"

If a counseling program does not want its students expressing ideas that the program considers harmful to those being counseled, than the institution is within their rights to expel her.

In other words, if in order to graduate from this program, one needs to demonstrate an ability to counsel homosexuals, and she cannot demonstrate this ability (as is clear through her statements), then she cannot graduate.

No Young-Earther will ever be allowed to graduate from an accredited Evolutionary Biology program, as it should be.

Agreed. But here is the problem i have with all of this. If you pass the curriculum, regardless of beliefs, what shouldn't you graduate?

Regardless of her beliefs that does not mean she can not demonstrate the ability to counsel homosexuals. I would assume that she would just choose not to counsel them.

 

[eagleseven]

Then since they want to impose their unwarranted beliefs on what a school counselor should believe, they should refund every dime she has had to pay including tuition, book and student fees to her and let her continue her education at a school that does not impose its irreligious and liberal point of view on students.

Immie

She understood the requirements of graduation before she signed up, and clearly understood that her beliefs contradicted the goals of her profession through arguments with the professors. She signed contracts where she understood the very strict circumstances in which she could obtain a refund, circumstances which have long since passed.

 

[Immanuel]

but its not brainwashing, its part of their guidelines as their beliefs about gays, etc don't align with her christian beliefs (although not all chritsians believe as her either)... I do agree with you that she should have left the school. I know that at least 1 christian school must have a counseling program and could also help her get a job at a christian based counseling place after graduation. that way should could have performed her eventual career without violating the guidelines of her degree and accreditation

NO IT'S NOT, you fucking idiot.

Kindly link where it's a requirement of any degree to BELIEVE in any particular science. Or where you can have a degree denied to you based on your religion.

What a piece of shit you are.

If you're trying to get a job as a counselor, you need to fit the American Counseling Association Code of Ethics, which prohibits discrimination against LGBT people. If you choose the bible over the ACA's Code of Ethics, you can't be a counselor.

I don't think that she should be prevented from getting a degree, but it's pretty clear she wouldn't be able to work as a counselor.

In some ways, I disagree with you.

I don't see anywhere that she says she would not or could not counsel LGBT.

In fact, this story says quite the opposite:

Change views on Christianity or get out - Augusta State Univ. tells student

Keeton, 24, is pursuing her master’s degree in counseling at Augusta State. After her professors learned of her biblical beliefs, specifically her views on homosexual conduct, from both classroom discussions and private conversations with other students, the school imposed the re-education plan. Keeton never denigrated anyone in communicating her beliefs but merely stated factually what they were in appropriate contexts.

It seems like unlike her professors, she did not feel the need to "re-educate her classmates. She spoke and wrote about her opinion and nothing more. To date I believe that even in this country, that is still legal.

Immie

 

[blu]

Ga. School Forces Christian Student to Alter Beliefs to Graduate | Christianpost.com

I don't really know how all of this works, so i think I will stay out of it for now

As long as she does the coursework and gets passing grades they have no right to penalize her.

She has a great career ahead of her "fixing" teh gay.

except that fixing the gay as you imply is against the code of conduct

 

[blu]

I disagree with you, my friend.

They want to brainwash her so that they can graduate her.

That is what they mean by "remediation". They want to place her in their little camp and change her beliefs. They are supposed to teach not "re-educate" to their political way of thinking.

Immie

but what if she was becoming a doctor and didn't believe in modern science or was graduating in biology and was planning on teaching future students that evolution was fake? the profession has to hold its member to standards or how would you know who to trust?

She has completed all courses to date. Now they want to deny her the right to complete her degree.

If she wanted to be a doctor she would have to pass the medical exams. She is not required to believe in medicine.

If she wants the become a biologist, she has to be able to pass the science classes that her degree requires and then get a job as a biologist. She is not required to believe in evolution.

To get my degree in Finance, I was not required to believe in either"Trickle Down Economics" or Obama's "Flood the Basement Economics". I was required to pass the tests that were given to me.

Immie

yes, the bold is the part I am stuck on, how she got so far into the program without issue before, when she was obviously vocal, and they wait until the end to fuck with her

 

[Nosmo King]

Granted, this is a state school so the paradigm isn't quite apt. But imagine a student at Liberty University who is majoring in Theology. In her final exams, this student manages to express her belief that the notion of the Rapture is incorrect and not to be taken seriously as it is the mis-reading of Holy Scripture. If the official doctrine of the Liberty University School of Theology said that the Rapture is not only a very real event but the inevitable end of mortal life on earth, should that student be awarded a degree for holding contrary views?

If her course work was satisfactory, should she be required to 'rethink' her position and accept the school's official stance?

I thought that the university experience was to open ones mind to other possibilities.

 

[Ravi]

Ga. School Forces Christian Student to Alter Beliefs to Graduate | Christianpost.com

I don't really know how all of this works, so i think I will stay out of it for now

As long as she does the coursework and gets passing grades they have no right to penalize her.

She has a great career ahead of her "fixing" teh gay.

except that fixing the gay as you imply is against the code of conduct

Is it? Is it a requirement of the program that you accept homosexuality?

 

[eagleseven]

Agreed. But here is the problem i have with all of this. If you pass the curriculum, regardless of beliefs, what shouldn't you graduate?

Regardless of her beliefs that does not mean she can not demonstrate the ability to counsel homosexuals. I would assume that she would just choose not to counsel them.

Telling an already emotionally-troubled homosexual "Your orientation is a choice, choosing to be straight will stop this pain" when he has likely suffered for years trying to make himself straight, might make him suicidal.

I know many who were put through hell by parents who believed just that.

I don't see anywhere that she says she would not or could not counsel LGBT.

In fact, this story says quite the opposite:

See my above statement...the school does not want her making already troubled homosexuals suicidal.