Zone1 I am stepping away from Judaism

[ding]

be careful of liking my position -- it shows that you are halfway to being a monster, you are a moron, you are a political animal, and you are equated to Hitler.

You are only a moron because you can't face the reality that life begins at conception. You are a moron for creating an alternate reality for no other reason than your sensibilities can't accept you supporting ending a human life.

You're halfway to becoming a monster because you seem to enjoy dismissing humanity as a clump of cells.

 

[Lisa558]

be careful of liking my position -- it shows that you are halfway to being a monster, you are a moron, you are a political animal, and you are equated to Hitler.

I am mediating between you and Ding and am attempting to resolve the misunderstanding. See my post just above.

 

[rosends]

A clump of cells? A textbook example of dehumanizing human life.


Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

here's some more propaganda for you.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ntls.20220041

 

[ding]

OK, now we are getting somewhere. Ding seems to think that your unwillingness to call a 9-month fetus “a life” means you are OK with abortion at that point and that you are rationalizing that belief by “dehumanizing” it.

But as we can see, saying an almost-born fetus is not a life - but rather a potential life - does not meet abortion is OK at that point. Judaism notes this, in saying one cannot abort a potential life past 40 days (with exceptions, as you note).

So….Ding….does this make sense? One can recognize the fetus as a potential life, and not life, and at the same time recognize it is wrong to terminate a potential life past 40 days.

Not exactly. It's his refusal to accept life begins at conception and abortion ends a human life. Regardless of when it is performed that is the reality of abortion. No need to sugar coat it.

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30

 

[rosends]

You are only a moron because you can't face the reality that life begins at conception. You are a moron for creating an alternate reality for no other reason than your sensibilities can't accept you supporting ending a human life.

You're halfway to becoming a monster because you seem to enjoy dismissing humanity as a clump of cells.

I hope that calling people names makes you feel happy. It certainly doesn't make you right.

 

[ding]

here's some more propaganda for you.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ntls.20220041

Thumbnail it for me.

“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”

Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974.

 

[ding]

I hope that calling people names makes you feel happy. It certainly doesn't make you right.

Not particularly, no. It's just science.

An embryology textbook describes how birth is just an event in the development of a baby, not the beginning of his/her life.

“It should always be remembered that many organs are still not completely developed by full-term and birth should be regarded only as an incident in the whole developmental process.”

F Beck Human Embryology, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1985 page vi

 

[rosends]

Thumbnail it for me.

do your own homework. You'll just dismiss it anyway. It's just a scientist who disagrees with your position, so it must not be worthy of mention.

 

[rosends]

Not particularly, no. It's just science.

I just gave you another scientist who disagrees. Make sure to tell him, and include all of your scientific qualifications.

 

[ding]

do your own homework. You'll just dismiss it anyway. It's just a scientist who disagrees with your position, so it must not be worthy of mention.

“Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal and postnatal periods, it is important to realize that birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment.”

The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1

 

[ding]

I just gave you another scientist who disagrees. Make sure to tell him, and include all of your scientific qualifications.

“Landrum B. Shettles, M.D., P.h.D. was first scientist to succeed at in vitro fertilization:

“The zygote is human life….there is one fact that no one can deny; Human beings begin at conception.”

 

[Lisa558]

Not exactly. It's his refusal to accept life begins at conception and abortion ends a human life. Regardless of when it is performed that is the reality of abortion. No need to sugar coat it.


Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30

What difference does it make what you call it? Jewish law does indeed recognize it as a potential life instead of a life, and at the same time limits the termination of a potential life to 40 days’ gestation. That seems reasonable to me.

 

[Meriweather]

OK, now we are getting somewhere. Ding seems to think that your unwillingness to call a 9-month fetus “a life” means you are OK with abortion at that point and that you are rationalizing that belief by “dehumanizing” it.

But as we can see, saying an almost-born fetus is not a life - but rather a potential life - does not meet abortion is OK at that point. Judaism notes this, in saying one cannot abort a potential life past 40 days (with exceptions, as you note).

So….Ding….does this make sense? One can recognize the fetus as a potential life, and not life, and at the same time recognize it is wrong to terminate a potential life past 40 days.

Not answering for Ding...
...Again simply something to consider...

Can a human being exist without the first forty days of cellular growth? I'm noting something wonderful is happening in human creation those first 40 days. A life is being refused existence when abortion occurs.

 

[ding]

What difference does it make what you call it? Jewish law does indeed recognize it as a potential life instead of a life, and at the same time limits the termination of a potential life to 40 days’ gestation. That seems reasonable to me.

The difference is abortion ends a human life. That should be acknowledged because that's what it does.

 

[SaxonJackson]

I have been posting here but rarely. I even walked away for a while. Recent events have made me understand my culture and faith on a higher level. I am a Jew, a son of parents whose parents fought the Nazis in the old Soviet Union. I lost a vast amount of my ancestors to WW2 and the Holocaust. There are very few of us left in the world. The vitriol against Jews remains high. With my kids ready for college, I cannot have them be under fire because of the hatred. We saw on our college campuses how most colleges took the side of protesters and even told Jewish students to study remotely. They cancelled graduations. They appeased those who would call for the end of Israel and for blatant antisemitism.

What unified both the far left and far right is their hatred of Jews. I get it form the Left. They see Jews as wealthy oppressors and white. That to them means evil. I see it from the Nazi alt right too. They want Hitler to finish what he started. What was troubling is that the moderates began to hate too.

Why?

Then it came to me. We bring this upon ourselves. People like Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler, Chuck Schumer, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Alejandro Mayorkas (yes he is a Jew), etc.

Let’s take Schiff for example. He bashed Hur for calling Biden a senile old man only to now ask Biden to step down because, well he is a senile old man. Why? Their lies were exposed. Schiff always knew this but lied to the American people. This feeds into the hateful narrative that Jews are deceitful.

Many, hell most Jews still vote Democrat despite the party overtly telling us they don’t want our vote just our money.

The faith is no longer with me. I ll pretend while my parents are still here. But once they are gone, so goes my faith and allegiance to Judaism. Same for my kids.

We are all walking away.

I share this here because despite all the hate this site has, it also has honesty and I respect that.

Writing this will likely result in some posts slamming me. And that’s fine. Actually therapeutic. In the end while I despise low life antisemites, I have to admit that I despise Democrat Jews equally.

Its time to leave the faith.

Thank you for reading.

Now turn to Jesus Christ. You can't go wrong.

 

[rosends]

The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1

so? What does that have to do with the science I posted?

 

[ding]

so? What does that have to do with the science I posted?

Zygote is a term for a newly conceived life after the sperm and the egg cell meet but before the embryo begins to divide.

From Landrum B. Shettles “Rites of Life: The Scientific Evidence for Life Before Birth” Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1983 p 40

 

[rosends]

Zygote is a term for a newly conceived life after the sperm and the egg cell meet but before the embryo begins to divide.

From Landrum B. Shettles “Rites of Life: The Scientific Evidence for Life Before Birth” Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1983 p 40

in other words, nothing. I gave you scientists and you ignored them. Got it.

 

[ding]

so? What does that have to do with the science I posted?

The medical textbook, Before We Are Born – Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects, states:

“The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms.”

Keith L. Moore & T.V.N. Persaud Before We Are Born – Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects (W.B. Saunders Company, 1998. Fifth edition.) Page 500

 

[ding]

in other words, nothing. I gave you scientists and you ignored them. Got it.

“Thus a new cell is formed from the union of a male and a female gamete. [sperm and egg cells] The cell, referred to as the zygote, contains a new combination of genetic material, resulting in an individual different from either parent and from anyone else in the world.”

Sally B Olds, et al., Obstetric Nursing (Menlo Park, California: Addison – Wesley publishing, 1980) P 136