Zone1 I am stepping away from Judaism

[ding]

saying the same thing over and over doesn't change reality. Deal with it.

I'll keep saying it until your soul turns to stone. Abortion ends human lives. That's what abortion is. Apparently you can't support abortion unless it is removing unwanted tissue.

 

[ding]

is that the new term for "anyone who disagrees with you"?

Let's have a quote war, shall we?

 

[Lisa558]

just look at #996 (the most recent time). Apparently, if we believe that there is a 40 day window, we are like Hitler.

I didn’t hear him say that. The argument seems to be that you are claiming that a 9- month fetus is not a life and thus you are justifying killing a viable baby. You are dehumanizing that life if you support killing a fully-formed and viable baby just weeks before its birth.

This is where you politics and this discussion DO indeed intersect. If you support the termination of a potential life after the 40-day point, then your liberalism supersedes your Judaism, in that case anyway.

 

[ding]

and you are all the way there, equating people with Hitler, calling all Orthodox Jews morons and political animals.

Your dehumanization of human life is the same as Hitler's dehumanization of human life or the slave owners dehumanization of human life.

 

[rosends]

I'll keep saying it until your soul turns to stone. Abortion ends human lives. That's what abortion is. Apparently you can't support abortion unless it is removing unwanted tissue.

have fun. Abortion removes a fetus (at least until the appropriate time when the fetus becomes something else). You need to believe that a woman 3 hours pregnant can drive in the carpool lane. Good luck with that.

 

[Zavulon]

Jewish law considers it potential life, and does not support abortion on demand past the 40-day gestation, except in cases of life of the mother.

Please don’t give readers the idea that Judaism is a cold, heartless religion that has no problem with abortion. We have enough antisemites on this forum as it is.

Another View: Jewish Law Doesn't Permit Abortion On Demand

www.brandeis.edu

Jewish law is one thing, but God's law, at least as it was written in Bible, is a bit different. Read Exodus 21:22
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22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows.
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So, it means that fetus is not a human being. Causing premature birth or miscarriage isn't a murder. It's a crime against property.

 

[Donald H]

Actually, I am here because I know God is. Probably before you became a member, but I have noted a couple of times that Jesus' saying, "Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe." I believe because of my own experience(s) of God, not because of simply having faith like those who have been blessed because they believe without seeing/knowing.

What experience of the god do you have that has erased all doubts on there being a god? I'm always interested in hearing of that sort of claim.

I don't think you can claim anything that the others don't have. All Christians have nothing more than faith convincing them on there being a god.

I don't think you're suggesting that you have anything more. Are you?

I accept that you feel that your faith is all you need. For others like (similar to) Jordan Peterson, his faith doesn't do it for him. Yet it's his extraordinary intelligence that leaves him short, and in a mental institution..

As far as I know, there were no other highly intelligent persons who couldn't deal with the truth/lies.

 

[rosends]

I didn’t hear him say that. The argument seems to be that you are claiming that a 9- month fetus is not a life and thus you are justifying killing a viable baby.

I have never said that.

You are dehumanizing that life if you support killing a fully-formed and viable baby just weeks before its birth.

Since I never said that, I don't feel any guilt in this regard.

This is where you politics and this discussion DO indeed intersect. If you support the termination of a potential life after the 40-day point, then your liberalism supersedes your Judaism, in that case anyway.

My Judaism trumps all of it.

 

[Lisa558]

have fun. Abortion removes a fetus (at least until the appropriate time when the fetus becomes something else). You need to believe that a woman 3 hours pregnant can drive in the carpool lane. Good luck with that.

At the same time, are you justifying abortion on demand up to the month of birth by saying it’s not a life? It’s a potential life. And Judaism notes that it is morally wrong to end a potential life after 40 days of gestation.

 

[Lisa558]

I have never said that.

Since I never said that, I don't feel any guilt in this regard.

My Judaism trumps all of it.

Then are you opposed to abortion after the 40-day window, except in cases of the mother’s life?

 

[ding]

have fun. Abortion removes a fetus (at least until the appropriate time when the fetus becomes something else). You need to believe that a woman 3 hours pregnant can drive in the carpool lane. Good luck with that.

Abortion literally kills a human being, dummy.

Apparently you can't support abortion unless you believe it doesn't. But I can promise you when an abortion is successfully performed a new genetic human being who has never existed before and will never exist again just had his life ended.

Own it. Lean into it.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't think you're suggesting that you have anything more. Are you?

Yes. And that is all I will share with you.

 

[rosends]

At the same time, are you justifying abortion on demand up to the month of birth by saying it’s not a life? It’s a potential life. And Judaism notes that it is morally wrong to end a potential life after 40 days of gestation.

I didn't say any of that either.

 

[ding]

You need to believe that a woman 3 hours pregnant can drive in the carpool lane. Good luck with that.

Dumbest argument ever.

 

[Lisa558]

I didn't say any of that either.

So what is your position on abortion?

 

[rosends]

Then are you opposed to abortion after the 40-day window, except in cases of the mother’s life?

Halacha has a few different exclusions and exceptions. Israeli law takes that into account. But in general, the 40 day/first heartbeat element of halacha is important to me.

 

[rosends]

Abortion literally kills a human being, dummy.

Apparently you can't support abortion unless you believe it doesn't. But I can promise you when an abortion is successfully performed a new genetic human being who has never existed before and will never exist again just had his life ended.

Own it. Lean into it.

a clump of cells. And you decide that any argument that shows the difference between cells and a human being is idiotic. Because you can't answer it. Accept your limitations.

 

[ding]

a clump of cells. And you decide that any argument that shows the difference between cells and a human being is idiotic. Because you can't answer it. Accept your limitations.

A clump of cells? A textbook example of dehumanizing human life.

“Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).”

Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

 

[rosends]

So what is your position on abortion?

be careful of liking my position -- it shows that you are halfway to being a monster, you are a moron, you are a political animal, and you are equated to Hitler.

 

[Lisa558]

Halacha has a few different exclusions and exceptions. Israeli law takes that into account. But in general, the 40 day/first heartbeat element of halacha is important to me.

OK, now we are getting somewhere. Ding seems to think that your unwillingness to call a 9-month fetus “a life” means you are OK with abortion at that point and that you are rationalizing that belief by “dehumanizing” it.

But as we can see, saying an almost-born fetus is not a life - but rather a potential life - does not meet abortion is OK at that point. Judaism notes this, in saying one cannot abort a potential life past 40 days (with exceptions, as you note).

So….Ding….does this make sense? One can recognize the fetus as a potential life, and not life, and at the same time recognize it is wrong to terminate a potential life past 40 days.