How Lucky Are Humans, and the World, for that Matter?

[deannalw]

That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?

I am an atheist, or as I like to call myself, a Realist. (Why should I define myself by something I DON'T believe in? A-theist = No god) And yes, there is lots of evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and the Big Bang has been deduced from various observable facts. And yes, the universe seems to be a chaotic, dangerous place -- as we're finding out right now with Covid-19. And unfortunately, the only thing that's stopping us from being destroyed by a "super meteor" is luck (or God, if you want to go that route).

Part of the reason that I hate religion is that it gives people false hope. Even if their lives in this world are terrible, they're promised a better one in the "next world." There isn't any next world. This is it. This is all we get. And you know what? For all its sorrows, this world is pretty great. A beautiful sunset, an inspiring piece of music, a delicious meal, or the love of someone -- you really should appreciate them while you have them. Because that's all you get. But it's enough.

WATCHOUTBRUCE>>>>>>>>>>QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ>ISWATCHINGYOU24/7>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Who is watching me? Q? The guy from Star Trek: The Next Generation?

QQQQQQQQQ>>>>>>>>>>>>ISWATCHINGYOU>>>>>>>>>>THEONEFROMABOVE..................

I seem to have misplaced my wtf button.

 

[deannalw]

That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?

Okay, I don't believe in The Man Upstairs, although I have great respect for the beauty and magnificence of what Is.
So what's that got to do with being struck by a meteor? That confuses me.

Have you ever stopped to think that you are literally the most complex thing the universe has ever produced?

After studying the physical, biological and moral laws of nature it is obvious to me that the purpose of the universe is to create intelligence. You are literally the pinnacle of creation.

And that's pretty fuckin pathetic, considering the number of fart videos there are on youtube

 

[bluzman61]

That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?

I am an atheist, or as I like to call myself, a Realist. (Why should I define myself by something I DON'T believe in? A-theist = No god) And yes, there is lots of evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and the Big Bang has been deduced from various observable facts. And yes, the universe seems to be a chaotic, dangerous place -- as we're finding out right now with Covid-19. And unfortunately, the only thing that's stopping us from being destroyed by a "super meteor" is luck (or God, if you want to go that route).

Part of the reason that I hate religion is that it gives people false hope. Even if their lives in this world are terrible, they're promised a better one in the "next world." There isn't any next world. This is it. This is all we get. And you know what? For all its sorrows, this world is pretty great. A beautiful sunset, an inspiring piece of music, a delicious meal, or the love of someone -- you really should appreciate them while you have them. Because that's all you get. But it's enough.

WATCHOUTBRUCE>>>>>>>>>>QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ>ISWATCHINGYOU24/7>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Who is watching me? Q? The guy from Star Trek: The Next Generation?

QQQQQQQQQ>>>>>>>>>>>>ISWATCHINGYOU>>>>>>>>>>THEONEFROMABOVE..................

I seem to have misplaced my wtf button.

I was just having a little fun with brain damaged Brucie......

 

[deannalw]

That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?

I would say we should work towards getting humanity off this rock and lessen the chance of extinction. Theists may trust to God, I say we need a plan B.

Yes!

Which planet should we fuck up next?

 

[OldLady]

The thought that I am among the most lucky of my race (human) to have ever existed does make for fascinating meditation. Where that meditation leads is really the question. We are all too ready to jump to conclusions.
I look about in wonder and try to just let it be, absorb what it could mean, if anything, and just feel a sense of awe and thanksgiving 'despite the real pain and suffering that even I, one of the most lucky, have experienced.

But that is the beauty of the experience. Knowing that no matter how hard one’s existence is it is still a rare and precious gift.

You could have been a rock.

That's kinda beautiful, ding.

 

[deannalw]

The thought that I am among the most lucky of my race (human) to have ever existed does make for fascinating meditation. Where that meditation leads is really the question. We are all too ready to jump to conclusions.
I look about in wonder and try to just let it be, absorb what it could mean, if anything, and just feel a sense of awe and thanksgiving 'despite the real pain and suffering that even I, one of the most lucky, have experienced.

But that is the beauty of the experience. Knowing that no matter how hard one’s existence is it is still a rare and precious gift.

You could have been a rock.

That's kinda beautiful, ding.

He stole it from a Hallmark card.

 

[alang1216]

Which planet should we fuck up next?

Every single one.

 

[Newtonian]

Continuing with examples of fine tuning of planet earth:

2. Oxygen is the most abundant element in earth's crust.

The Eight Most Abundant Elements in the Earth's Crust

The elements in the outermost surface of the Earth, the crust, are found mostly in trace amounts. Oxygen, the most abundant element in earth's crust, is nearly half of the crust's mass. Other abundant elements are silicon, aluminum, iron, calcium, sodium, potassium and magnesium.

sciencing.com

"Oxygen, O2, is by far the most abundant element in earth's crust at 46.6 percent, nearly half of the mass of the crust.

Oxygen is a highly reactive element capable of combining with many other elements to form compounds. It readily combines with silicon (Si) to form silicate minerals or with iron (Fe) to form various iron ore compounds."

Why is a separate field of research - note the Britannica article on the evolution of earth's atmosphere which I posted in my last post. The article notes that while models of the origin of molten earth indicate the presence of metalic/unoxidized Iron (Fe), even the earliest shield rocks (c. 4 billion years old) have no free Iron - it is ALL oxidized.

There are a number of reasons this is important:

2A. The need for Oxygen for plants to breathe at night and animals like us to breathe is linked to the - abundance of Oxygen in earth's crust - how it got there.

2B. The abundance of Oxygen in earth's crust disproves most chemical evolution models - since organic molecules react with Oxygen.

2B(1) The very solar radiation that some chemical evolutionists point to as an energy source driving origin of life experiments actually prove early earth had a tiny percentage of Oxygen - perhaps similar to the CO2 percentage today. The reaction, which most chemical evolutionists ignore, is called photolysis - the splitting of water (2 H2O) into free Hydrogen (2 H2) and free Oxygen (O2). Hydrogen would tend to escape into space, but Oxygen has a higher molecular weight and would have been present in earth's primordial atmosphere due to this chemical reaction - this accounts for the oxidation of minerals in earth's crust.

I will post in more detail, with links, on this source of atmospheric Oxygen = photolysis of Water.

 

[Hollie]

The thought that I am among the most lucky of my race (human) to have ever existed does make for fascinating meditation. Where that meditation leads is really the question. We are all too ready to jump to conclusions.
I look about in wonder and try to just let it be, absorb what it could mean, if anything, and just feel a sense of awe and thanksgiving 'despite the real pain and suffering that even I, one of the most lucky, have experienced.

But that is the beauty of the experience. Knowing that no matter how hard one’s existence is it is still a rare and precious gift.

You could have been a rock.

That's kinda beautiful, ding.

He stole it from a Hallmark card.

More likely Harun Yahya.

 

[deannalw]

Which planet should we fuck up next?

Every single one.

Too much work for me.

 

[Newtonian]

2B(1) continued - specifically the photolysis of water by UV radiation into hydrogen and free (reactive) Oxygen - one source among others that caused Oxygen to be the most abundant element (46+%) in earth's crust. Concerning photolysis (aka photodissociation) of H2O:

[Note: photosynthesis by plants came later]

In a Bing search this is found as coming from the wikipedia article I will next link to - but I could not find the quote in the article! However, this summary from Bing search on the photolysis of water is accurate though a step in the process is missing (O to O2):

"Photolysis is part of the light-dependent reaction or light phase or photochemical phase or Hill reaction of photosynthesis. The general reaction of photosynthetic photolysis can be given as
H2A + 2 photons (light) → 2 e + 2 H + A
The chemical nature of "A" depends on the type of organism. In purple sulfur bacteria, hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is oxidized to sulfur (S). In oxygenic photosynthesis, water (H2O) serves as a substrate for photolysis resulting in the generation of diatomic oxygen (O2). This is the proc…"

However, the initial photolysis produces O not O2 - this is in the article:

Photodissociation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Examples of photodissociation in the interstellar medium are (hν is the energy of a single photon of frequency ν):

"Examples of photodissociation in the interstellar medium are (hν is the energy of a single photon of frequency ν):
H 2 O → h ν H + OH {\displaystyle {\ce {H2O ->[h\nu] H + OH}}}"

[See the article for correct formatting - basically H2O + UV radiation yields H + OH.]

The article also lists basic photolytic reactions:

"The atmospheric photodissociation
N 2 ⟶ 2 N {\displaystyle {\ce {N2 -> 2N}}}
O 2 ⟶ 2 O {\displaystyle {\ce {O2 -> 2O}}}
CO 2 ⟶ C + 2 O {\displaystyle {\ce {CO2 -> C + 2O}}}
H 2 O ⟶ 2 H + O {\displaystyle {\ce {H2O -> 2H + O}}}
2 NH 3 ⟶ 3 H 2 + N 2 {\displaystyle {\ce {2NH3 -> 3H2 + N2}}} "

[Again - see the article for correct formatting]

Please do not miss the EXTREME reactivity of atomic Oxygen (O) compared with the diatomic Oxygen molecule (O2).

Bottom line: UV radiation of the atmospheric water molecule (H2O) produces atomic Oxygen (O) which would react with virtually everything including any complex molecules required for life.

[Note: however, Genesis 1:2 indicates God's spirit (invisible active force = invisible energy) was going to and fro over earth's primordial waters IN DARKNESS.]

 

[TNHarley]

Its billions, not millions, of years.
Also, it didnt wipe out life in an instant.
JS

 

[ding]

The thought that I am among the most lucky of my race (human) to have ever existed does make for fascinating meditation. Where that meditation leads is really the question. We are all too ready to jump to conclusions.
I look about in wonder and try to just let it be, absorb what it could mean, if anything, and just feel a sense of awe and thanksgiving 'despite the real pain and suffering that even I, one of the most lucky, have experienced.

But that is the beauty of the experience. Knowing that no matter how hard one’s existence is it is still a rare and precious gift.

You could have been a rock.

That's kinda beautiful, ding.

The rock part?

Actually we take for granted a lot. Seriously. Perspective is everything when it comes to stuff like this. I never fully appreciated how significant our existence is.

To be or not to be.

 

[ding]

That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?

I would say we should work towards getting humanity off this rock and lessen the chance of extinction. Theists may trust to God, I say we need a plan B.

Not going to happen.

Extinction is the only other option. I'm an optimist so I say it is inevitable.

You have been watching too many sci-fi movies.

 

[Newtonian]

The next fine tuning point #s are from our article here:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Note the following point #'s 1-4 are points 3 - 6 in my list of fine tuning of the earth:

[Note: the SETI search for earthlike planets only considers a couple of the fine tuned properties for a planet to have a surface environment conducive to life - none of these planets would actually allow life as we know it to survive]

"1. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy and the solar system, as well as the planet’s orbit, tilt, rotational speed, and moon

2. A magnetic field and atmosphere that serve as a dual shield

3. An abundance of water

4. Natural cycles that replenish and cleanse the biosphere"

So, #1 is #3 in my list:

3A - Earth's location in Milky Way galaxy:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"

Could the earth be located in a better position to host life?

When you write down your address, what do you include? You might put in your country, city, and street. By way of comparison, let’s call the Milky Way galaxy earth’s “country,” the solar system—that is, the sun and its planets—earth’s “city,” and earth’s orbit within the solar system earth’s “street.” Thanks to advances in astronomy and physics, scientists have gained deep insights into the merits of our special spot in the universe.

To begin with, our “city,” or solar system, is located in the ideal region of the Milky Way galaxy—not too close to the center and not too far from it. This “habitable zone,” as scientists call it, contains just the right concentrations of the chemical elements needed to support life. Farther out, those elements are too scarce; farther in, the neighborhood is too dangerous because of the greater abundance of potentially lethal radiation and other factors. “We live in prime real estate,” says Scientific American magazine.1"

Reference 1 -

Bibliography — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

1. Scientific American, Special Issue 2008 entitled “Majestic Universe,” p. 11.

 

[there4eyeM]

The thought that I am among the most lucky of my race (human) to have ever existed does make for fascinating meditation. Where that meditation leads is really the question. We are all too ready to jump to conclusions.
I look about in wonder and try to just let it be, absorb what it could mean, if anything, and just feel a sense of awe and thanksgiving 'despite the real pain and suffering that even I, one of the most lucky, have experienced.

But that is the beauty of the experience. Knowing that no matter how hard one’s existence is it is still a rare and precious gift.

You could have been a rock.

No.

 

[Hollie]

The next fine tuning point #s are from our article here:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Note the following point #'s 1-4 are points 3 - 6 in my list of fine tuning of the earth:

[Note: the SETI search for earthlike planets only considers a couple of the fine tuned properties for a planet to have a surface environment conducive to life - none of these planets would actually allow life as we know it to survive]

"1. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy and the solar system, as well as the planet’s orbit, tilt, rotational speed, and moon

2. A magnetic field and atmosphere that serve as a dual shield

3. An abundance of water

4. Natural cycles that replenish and cleanse the biosphere"

So, #1 is #3 in my list:

3A - Earth's location in Milky Way galaxy:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"

Could the earth be located in a better position to host life?

When you write down your address, what do you include? You might put in your country, city, and street. By way of comparison, let’s call the Milky Way galaxy earth’s “country,” the solar system—that is, the sun and its planets—earth’s “city,” and earth’s orbit within the solar system earth’s “street.” Thanks to advances in astronomy and physics, scientists have gained deep insights into the merits of our special spot in the universe.

To begin with, our “city,” or solar system, is located in the ideal region of the Milky Way galaxy—not too close to the center and not too far from it. This “habitable zone,” as scientists call it, contains just the right concentrations of the chemical elements needed to support life. Farther out, those elements are too scarce; farther in, the neighborhood is too dangerous because of the greater abundance of potentially lethal radiation and other factors. “We live in prime real estate,” says Scientific American magazine.1"

Reference 1 -

Bibliography — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

1. Scientific American, Special Issue 2008 entitled “Majestic Universe,” p. 11.

It’s entirely predictable that the JW’s would use the falsely labeled “fine tuning” argument to prove their gods but the chaos and violence of the universe doesn’t support a “fine tuning” claim and nothing about the universe supports any notions of gods.

 

[Newtonian]

3B. Earth's location in the solar system. This is one point that is not ignored - it is one of the few things SETI and other scientists look for in 'earth-like' planets - most examples of fine tuning of earth are ignored in the search for earth-like planets.

From the above article:

"No less “prime” is earth’s “street,” or orbit within our solar system “city.” About 93 million miles (150 million km) from the sun, this orbit lies within a limited zone that is habitable because life neither freezes nor fries. Moreover, earth’s path is almost circular, keeping us roughly the same distance from the sun year-round."

3B(1) The ratio of earth's radius to its distance from the sun:

How Did Our Universe Get Here?—The Controversy — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"Astronomer John Barrow and mathematician Frank Tipler studied “the ratio of the Earth’s radius and distance from the Sun.” They concluded that human life would not exist “were this ratio slightly different from what it is observed to be.” Professor David L. Block notes: “Calculations show that had the earth been situated only 5 per cent closer to the sun, a runaway greenhouse effect [overheating of the earth] would have occurred about 4 000 million years ago. If, on the other hand, the earth were placed only 1 per cent further from the sun, runaway glaciation [huge sheets of ice covering much of the globe] would have occurred some 2 000 million years ago.”—Our Universe: Accident or Design?"

See this link:

http://lhcc.info/docs/Fine-Tuning-Parameters-for-the-Universe-2.pdf

[Note - this link refers to many other examples of fine tuning which I will post on later.]

3B(2) - Earth's radius and composition produce the right amount of gravity for life as we know it - astronaut's have problems with low gravity.

On the lighter side: many do not appreciate the gravity of the matter. (puns intended)

3B(3) - Earth's orbit, while nearly circular, is not totally circular. Earth is closer to the sun in the southern hemisphere summer and northern hemisphere winter. Correspondingly earth is further from the sun when the north is in summer and the south is in winter.

This is quite perfect for more moderate seasons since the south has more water (oceans) than the north and the oceans moderate the seasons in the south (Continental vs. maritime climate).

Otherwise, the seasons in the south would be extreme since the sun is closer in summer and further in winter. The distance from the sun moderates the seasons in the north.

 

[Newtonian]

Hollie - why are you ignoring the scientific evidence I am posting?

For example - the geologic carbon cycle which is one reason earth did not end up like Venus?

I am going offline for awhile again - so no rush - I hope you will consider some of the scientific evidence.

 

[Newtonian]

The next fine tuning point #s are from our article here:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Note the following point #'s 1-4 are points 3 - 6 in my list of fine tuning of the earth:

[Note: the SETI search for earthlike planets only considers a couple of the fine tuned properties for a planet to have a surface environment conducive to life - none of these planets would actually allow life as we know it to survive]

"1. Earth’s location in the Milky Way galaxy and the solar system, as well as the planet’s orbit, tilt, rotational speed, and moon

2. A magnetic field and atmosphere that serve as a dual shield

3. An abundance of water

4. Natural cycles that replenish and cleanse the biosphere"

So, #1 is #3 in my list:

3A - Earth's location in Milky Way galaxy:

The Living Planet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"

Could the earth be located in a better position to host life?

When you write down your address, what do you include? You might put in your country, city, and street. By way of comparison, let’s call the Milky Way galaxy earth’s “country,” the solar system—that is, the sun and its planets—earth’s “city,” and earth’s orbit within the solar system earth’s “street.” Thanks to advances in astronomy and physics, scientists have gained deep insights into the merits of our special spot in the universe.

To begin with, our “city,” or solar system, is located in the ideal region of the Milky Way galaxy—not too close to the center and not too far from it. This “habitable zone,” as scientists call it, contains just the right concentrations of the chemical elements needed to support life. Farther out, those elements are too scarce; farther in, the neighborhood is too dangerous because of the greater abundance of potentially lethal radiation and other factors. “We live in prime real estate,” says Scientific American magazine.1"

Reference 1 -

Bibliography — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

1. Scientific American, Special Issue 2008 entitled “Majestic Universe,” p. 11.

It’s entirely predictable that the JW’s would use the falsely labeled “fine tuning” argument to prove their gods but the chaos and violence of the universe doesn’t support a “fine tuning” claim and nothing about the universe supports any notions of gods.

Chaos?

I'm not sure what you are referring to - perhaps you could clarify.

One example of fine-tuned violence is Supernovas. Without supernovas the only elements that would have come into existence would have been Lithium and Hydrogen to Helium (which is inert), You cannot have life as we know it with just those elements present in the universe.

Further, no stars would have even existed in our universe without the fine tuned expansion rate of our universe (involving gravity, dark energy, and the cause of the labelled "big bang.").

The fine tuned ratios of the 4 force of physics also were required. (electromagnetic, gravity, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force).

The Bible simplifies this in Job 38:33 which refers to the laws governing our universe. Far from chaos, the universe obeys laws and also has fine tuned properties. I will continue my list later - offline for awhile.

You all; shelter in ;place! You can't catch viruses ln the internet!