How Lucky Are Humans, and the World, for that Matter?

Newtonian

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I'm a theist and a big banger. I'm thankful that big meteors, by and by, go bang Jupiter, our giant protector planet.
Indeed, Jupiter is just one of the many ways our solar system has been fine tuned to allow for life as we know it on earth's surface.
 

Newtonian

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The thought that I am among the most lucky of my race (human) to have ever existed does make for fascinating meditation. Where that meditation leads is really the question. We are all too ready to jump to conclusions.
I look about in wonder and try to just let it be, absorb what it could mean, if anything, and just feel a sense of awe and thanksgiving 'despite the real pain and suffering that even I, one of the most lucky, have experienced.
But that is the beauty of the experience. Knowing that no matter how hard one’s existence is it is still a rare and precious gift.

You could have been a rock.
You never heard of rock stars?
 

ding

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
It was an inevitability that we exist. No luck about it.
No, it wasn't inevitable. It was chance. If the dinosaurs hadn't been wiped out by a meteor 65 million years ago, we wouldn't exist. But we DO exist. And that's a good thing, right?
No. It is inevitable that intelligence will arise. Since the very beginning energy has complexified and has not ceased. In fact, SETI searches for intelligent life for this very reason. They literally expect to find it because the nature of the universe is to create beings that know and create.
Informational molecules do not arise by chance - only statistical molecules arise by chance - and even they are due to the fine tuning of our universe.
I don’t understand what you are trying to get at. What are you trying to say?
 

Newtonian

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
It was an inevitability that we exist. No luck about it.
No, it wasn't inevitable. It was chance. If the dinosaurs hadn't been wiped out by a meteor 65 million years ago, we wouldn't exist. But we DO exist. And that's a good thing, right?
No. It is inevitable that intelligence will arise. Since the very beginning energy has complexified and has not ceased. In fact, SETI searches for intelligent life for this very reason. They literally expect to find it because the nature of the universe is to create beings that know and create.
Informational molecules do not arise by chance - only statistical molecules arise by chance - and even they are due to the fine tuning of our universe.
I don’t understand what you are trying to get at. What are you trying to say?
See the article I linked to.

Bottom line - the fine tuning of our universe, star, magnetic field, ozone layer, and earth as a whole is due to God's love - not luck.

Would you like me to list in detail some of these examples of fine tuning?

Or were you referring to my reference to informational vs. statistical molecules?

That would be a chemistry tangent - for starters DNA would be useless for life if it was not precisely coded in a chemical language (cp. a book). Not to mention the need for a messenger molecule (RNA) to read this information and use it in one of the many processes required for life.

And that is just one of the many informational molecules required for life.

It boils down to the difference between life and death. One cause for death is the second law of thermodynamics and specifically the principle of entropy which causes informational molecules to decay to their most stable state - which is non-living matter. It doesn't go the other way - from death to life - without informational molecules in living things. See the many aspects of the origin of life by chemistry directed by information/intelligence vs. statistical molecules.

A simple example - in origin of life experiments many amino acids are produced by chance + an environment produced by intelligent creators (humans). But the primary product is formic acid - this fact is usually omitted by chemical evolutionists. And besides that many amino acids useless for life are produced - another fact covered over by chemical evolutionists (and popular media programs).

And, of course, chirality - but that is just left or right hand polarization of molecules.

Also usually ignored is the precise 3-d shape of molecules required for life - such as enzymes and receptor molecules.

Would you like me to post more detail on this?
 
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Hollie

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I'm a theist and a big banger. I'm thankful that big meteors, by and by, go bang Jupiter, our giant protector planet.
Indeed, Jupiter is just one of the many ways our solar system has been fine tuned to allow for life as we know it on earth's surface.
That New Mexico meteor crater, the gods having a bad day?
 

alang1216

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
I would say we should work towards getting humanity off this rock and lessen the chance of extinction. Theists may trust to God, I say we need a plan B.
 

ding

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I'm a theist and a big banger. I'm thankful that big meteors, by and by, go bang Jupiter, our giant protector planet.
Indeed, Jupiter is just one of the many ways our solar system has been fine tuned to allow for life as we know it on earth's surface.
That New Mexico meteor crater, the gods having a bad day?
That would be the view of militant atheists attempting to subordinate faith in God.
 

norwegen

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ding

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
I would say we should work towards getting humanity off this rock and lessen the chance of extinction. Theists may trust to God, I say we need a plan B.
Not going to happen.
 

ding

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
It was an inevitability that we exist. No luck about it.
No, it wasn't inevitable. It was chance. If the dinosaurs hadn't been wiped out by a meteor 65 million years ago, we wouldn't exist. But we DO exist. And that's a good thing, right?
No. It is inevitable that intelligence will arise. Since the very beginning energy has complexified and has not ceased. In fact, SETI searches for intelligent life for this very reason. They literally expect to find it because the nature of the universe is to create beings that know and create.
Informational molecules do not arise by chance - only statistical molecules arise by chance - and even they are due to the fine tuning of our universe.
I don’t understand what you are trying to get at. What are you trying to say?
See the article I linked to.

Bottom line - the fine tuning of our universe, star, magnetic field, ozone layer, and earth as a whole is due to God's love - not luck.

Would you like me to list in detail some of these examples of fine tuning?
I never said it was due to luck. It’s not an accident. But I also don’t believe there is anything special about us either.

Sure go ahead. List them. I am curious as to what you will list. When you are done I may add to them. Of course mine will be more about intricate laws of nature as opposed to the conditions for life to arise.
 

norwegen

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Well, we believe righteous mankind will live on the earth forever and that earth will be a paradise forever. (Psalms 37:29) We were not created to live in heaven - see 1 Corinthians 15:50.
Be careful here. Christians are apt to call you a hairy tick.

Most Christians preach an escapism that the Bible doesn't teach.
 

ding

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
I am an atheist, or as I like to call myself, a Realist. (Why should I define myself by something I DON'T believe in? A-theist = No god) And yes, there is lots of evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and the Big Bang has been deduced from various observable facts. And yes, the universe seems to be a chaotic, dangerous place -- as we're finding out right now with Covid-19. And unfortunately, the only thing that's stopping us from being destroyed by a "super meteor" is luck (or God, if you want to go that route).

Part of the reason that I hate religion is that it gives people false hope. Even if their lives in this world are terrible, they're promised a better one in the "next world." There isn't any next world. This is it. This is all we get. And you know what? For all its sorrows, this world is pretty great. A beautiful sunset, an inspiring piece of music, a deli
That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
I am an atheist, or as I like to call myself, a Realist. (Why should I define myself by something I DON'T believe in? A-theist = No god) And yes, there is lots of evidence that the Earth is millions of years old, and the Big Bang has been deduced from various observable facts. And yes, the universe seems to be a chaotic, dangerous place -- as we're finding out right now with Covid-19. And unfortunately, the only thing that's stopping us from being destroyed by a "super meteor" is luck (or God, if you want to go that route).

Part of the reason that I hate religion is that it gives people false hope. Even if their lives in this world are terrible, they're promised a better one in the "next world." There isn't any next world. This is it. This is all we get. And you know what? For all its sorrows, this world is pretty great. A beautiful sunset, an inspiring piece of music, a delicious meal, or the love of someone -- you really should appreciate them while you have them. Because that's all you get. But it's enough.
Well, we believe righteous mankind will live on the earth forever and that earth will be a paradise forever. (Psalms 37:29) We were not created to live in heaven - see 1 Corinthians 15:50.
Be careful here. Christians are apt to call you a hairy tick.

Most Christians preach an escapism that the Bible doesn't teach.
I get called all sorts of names from all sides.

I’m pretty used to it now.
 

Hollie

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
I would say we should work towards getting humanity off this rock and lessen the chance of extinction. Theists may trust to God, I say we need a plan B.
Interesting question that raises. What if the gods return looking for another opportunity to wipe out humanity and humans have colonies on Mars. Do the Martian dwellers get whacked, also?
 

ding

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I'm a theist and a big banger. I'm thankful that big meteors, by and by, go bang Jupiter, our giant protector planet.
Indeed, Jupiter is just one of the many ways our solar system has been fine tuned to allow for life as we know it on earth's surface.
That New Mexico meteor crater, the gods having a bad day?
Yea, the gods have days. Hence the appeasement.
Gods? How many of them are there?
 

ding

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
I would say we should work towards getting humanity off this rock and lessen the chance of extinction. Theists may trust to God, I say we need a plan B.
Interesting question that raises. What if the gods return looking for another opportunity to wipe out humanity and humans have colonies on Mars. Do the Martian dwellers get whacked, also?
No wonder you don’t believe in God. You have built a straw man God.
 

alang1216

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
I would say we should work towards getting humanity off this rock and lessen the chance of extinction. Theists may trust to God, I say we need a plan B.
Not going to happen.
Extinction is the only other option. I'm an optimist so I say it is inevitable.
 

Newtonian

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That we're able to exist even now, at this instant that I type this.

Based on the belief of atheists, this earth, has been in existence for millions, and millions of years now, starting w/of course, the Big Bang.

That there's all types of gargantuan stars, suns, meteors, planets etc, all around the universe swirling around and that could ultimately, at one point smash in to us.

Remember, that's what they claimed happened to make the dinosaurs go extinct and caused the Ice Age. A giant meteor that all but destroyed all life on earth...in an instant.

So that was millions of years ago, aren't we due for another one right about now?

What's stopping us from being destroyed by a super meteor at any point? And how do you feel w/the knowledge that this can happen at any instant?

I'd like to hear from our resident atheists on this.

What are your thoughts?
It was an inevitability that we exist. No luck about it.
No, it wasn't inevitable. It was chance. If the dinosaurs hadn't been wiped out by a meteor 65 million years ago, we wouldn't exist. But we DO exist. And that's a good thing, right?
No. It is inevitable that intelligence will arise. Since the very beginning energy has complexified and has not ceased. In fact, SETI searches for intelligent life for this very reason. They literally expect to find it because the nature of the universe is to create beings that know and create.
Informational molecules do not arise by chance - only statistical molecules arise by chance - and even they are due to the fine tuning of our universe.
I don’t understand what you are trying to get at. What are you trying to say?
See the article I linked to.

Bottom line - the fine tuning of our universe, star, magnetic field, ozone layer, and earth as a whole is due to God's love - not luck.

Would you like me to list in detail some of these examples of fine tuning?
I never said it was due to luck. It’s not an accident. But I also don’t believe there is anything special about us either.

Sure go ahead. List them. I am curious as to what you will list. When you are done I may add to them. Of course mine will be more about intricate laws of nature as opposed to the conditions for life to arise.
OK, I will start with the fine tuning of planet earth to allow for life as we know it to exist on earth's surface. Starting with one I already posted on (I won't list them all in one post and feel free to add your own.

1. The removal of earth's primordial mostly CO2 atmosphere (not NH3 (ammonia) and CH4 (methane) as some chemical evolutionists assert contrary to scientific evidence) by the geological carbon cycle. That occurred in part because early earth was covered with water (Genesis 1:20) which absorbs in solution carbonate (CO3) ions in the oceans which combined with 'metal' ions of Sodium (Na), Potassium (K) and Calcium (Ca) to produce huge carbonate deposits including limestone which is a form of Calcite (CaCO3) or Calcium carbonate.

For details, see this Britannica article:

 

Newtonian

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I should mention that most chemical evolutionists ignore the presence of 'metal' ions in earth's primordial waters - i.e. Calcium, Potassium and Sodium ions. These ions would react with most organic molecules and make the formation of polypeptides (on a chemical pathway from amino acids to proteins) impossible unless a chemist with incredible ability and power isolated/insulated informational molecules from these ions.
 

deannalw

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...we humans are extremely lucky that we're the most intelligent species and at the top of the food chain...
If you were dropped off in the middle of the African safari, butt naked, just the way God made you, do you really believe you'd be at the top of the food chain? And how far do you think your intelligence would get you? All you have layin around are a bunch of rocks and sticks.

You've got about three seconds to grab a rock and widdle a spear...he's coming for ya, Bluz...


Watch Nekkid and afeared if ya really want an education in that shit.

Not many hero's late at night when there are lions, hippos, elephants and a shit ton of snakes trying to share your boma with you.

And don't count on me. I'd probably fling you at them.

I may not be top of the food chain, but when we're runnin from a gaggle of hyena I'm gonna try real hard to be ahead of you...
 

Newtonian

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1 A - Math calculation showing earth's early atmosphere had about the same amount of CO2 as in the atmosphere of Venus at this time. For starters the actual amount of CO2 in earth's crust - mostly carbonates - from the same article in Britannica is this chart in pg (petagrams):


Carbon in Earth's crust

formtotal amount (Pg* C)
*One Pg (abbreviation for petagram) equals one quadrillion (10^15) grams. Entries refer to amounts of carbon.
atmospheric CO (as of 1978)696
oceanic carbon dioxide, bicarbonate ion, and carbonate ion34,800
limestones, other carbonate sediments64,800,000
carbonate in metamorphic rocks2,640,000
total biomass594
organic carbon in ocean water996
organic carbon in soils2,064
organic carbon in sedimentary rocks12,000,000
organic carbon in metamorphic rocks3,480,000
The table also emphasizes the dissolution of atmospheric gases by the ocean. The carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is in equilibrium with, and far less abundant than, the oceanic inventory of carbon dioxide, bicarbonate ions (HCO3−), and carbonate ions (CO32−)...."
 

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