How long will hardcore MAGAs stomach Trump's Forever War in the Middle East?

[HikerGuy83]

Most Americans do not support what he has done.

Most Americans didn't think he'd win in 2016 or 2024.

Most Americans have quit paying attention.

 

[Zavulon]

You don't need to determine an exact number. For example "No more than 1 mln of Americans, or no more than 30% of US population, or no more than 50% of US population" would be good enough.

I cant relate to your way of thinking

It's quite American way of thinking, when you can see the difference between two grave but nevertheless distinguishable post-war environments, in which twenty million Americans are dead and sixty million Americans are dead, and considere one of them as lesser evil.
Good decision-makers always calculate estimated losses and possible profits, and what exact amount of patriot's blood is necessary to water the Tree of Freedom.

I dont think Lincoln weighed the situation prior to Ft Sumpter with the idea that not one American life can be lost to preserve the Union

Nor prior to Pearl Harbor did FDR concede South East Asia and all of China to Imperial Japan since a war would be expensive and cost American lives

Of course they thought about it. And if not they, it were their decision-makers and advisors.

 

[Mac-7]

It's quite American way of thinking, when you can see the difference between two grave but nevertheless distinguishable post-war environments, in which twenty million Americans are dead and sixty million Americans are dead, and considere one of them as lesser evil.

Its more likely to have millions of American die if Iran has nuclear weapons than without

 

[toomuchtime_]

It's quite American way of thinking, when you can see the difference between two grave but nevertheless distinguishable post-war environments, in which twenty million Americans are dead and sixty million Americans are dead, and considere one of them as lesser evil.
Good decision-makers always calculate estimated losses and possible profits, and what exact amount of patriot's blood is necessary to water the Tree of Freedom.


Of course they thought about it. And if not they, it were their decision-makers and advisors.

There is no plausible scenario in which the US will suffer such losses.

 

[Zavulon]

Its more likely to have millions of American die if Iran has nuclear weapons than without

In fact, while detterence is mostly psychological phenomena, given the terrible consequences of the nuclear exchange, it works more or less equally with people of very different cultures. I mean if Iranians are sure that in the case of their attack on the USA they will suffer virtually total annihilation (and they can be sure about it), and if America is not extremely provocative, they will have only Minimal Deterrence, like North Korea, Britain, France or Pakistan.

And, by the way, your illegal and unprovoked attack on Iran, may cause end of NPT, and then in one year not only Iran, but also Germany, Japan and Brazil will acquire nukes. And nuclear Japan might be much more dangerous for the USA, than nuclear Iran.

 

[Zavulon]

There is no plausible scenario in which the US will suffer such losses.

Of course there are. Actually, there are a lot of scenarios in which the USA will suffer virtually total annihilation.

 

[Mac-7]

In fact, while detterence is mostly psychological phenomena, given the terrible consequences of the nuclear exchange, it works more or less equally with people of very different cultures. I mean if Iranians are sure that in the case of their attack on the USA they will suffer virtually total annihilation (and they can be sure about it), and if America is not extremely provocative, they will have only Minimal Deterrence, like North Korea, Britain, France or Pakistan.

And, by the way, your illegal and unprovoked attack on Iran, may cause end of NPT, and then in one year not only Iran, but also Germany, Japan and Brazil will acquire nukes. And nuclear Japan might be much more dangerous for the USA, than nuclear Iran.

Rogue states like Iran and North Korea would rather die than give up power

They will push the button if the end has come for their regime

 

[Zavulon]

Rogue states like Iran and North Korea would rather die than give up power

May be. As well as any other country.

They will push the button if the end has come for their regime

But if you don't create threats to their very existence, they won't push the button.

 

[kyzr]

Stop worshiping Trump and applauding his denigrating America.

How is Trump denigrating America? I call bullshit.

Most Americans do not support what he has done.

Polls? You want to compare polls? Democrats are under 20% approval. Trump's 41% approval looks good by comparison.



Polls on military action, similar 40% approval, but what if they polled "should Iran be allowed to get nukes and ICBMs?"

Inflation a 30% approval, a tough number to lower with gas up and tariffs to deal with.

Economy a 37% approval, Trump's economic policies haven't kicked in yet, this number should be easy to raise before NOV.

Foreign Policy a 39% approval, this number should also be easy to raise after the war with Iran ends and gas comes down

 

[toomuchtime_]

Of course there are. Actually, there are a lot of scenarios in which the USA will suffer virtually total annihilation.

In your fantasies, perhaps, but there are no plausible fantasies in which it happens.

 

[Zavulon]

In your fantasies, perhaps, but there are no plausible fantasies in which it happens.

Do you mean, that the USA will alleviate as soon as they see even a minimal risk of a nuclear escalation?

 

[Zavulon]

Foreign Policy a 39% approval, this number should also be easy to raise after the war with Iran ends and gas comes down

IF (very big IF) the war with Iran ends and IF (even bigger IF) the gas comes down.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Do you mean, that the USA will alleviate as soon as they see even a minimal risk of a nuclear escalation?

I mean whatever twisted fantasies you have about dying Americans there is no plausible scenario in which America will face such losses as you describe.

 

[kyzr]

IF (very big IF) the war with Iran ends and IF (even bigger IF) the gas comes down.

Simply the Law of Supply and Demand, increase supply gas comes down.

 

[Zavulon]

I mean whatever twisted fantasies you have about dying Americans there is no plausible scenario in which America will face such losses as you describe.

Of course there are. Like if Iran truly wants nuclear weapons, and Russia is really ready to sell nukes to Iran, and US decision-makers decided that the only way to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons is to start a nuclear war against Russia, then, if the USA are unlucky, it can cease it's existence.

 

[Zavulon]

Simply the Law of Supply and Demand, increase supply gas comes down.

There is absolutely no guarantee that supply will increase, and there is no guarantee that demand won't increase.

 

[Mac-7]

May be. As well as any other country.

Not true

In WWII both Germany and Japan surrendered knowing the leadership would be arrested and executed after being removed from power

The mullahs are vowing that the persian people must die along with them

 

[kyzr]

There is absolutely no guarantee that supply will increase, and there is no guarantee that demand won't increase.

When Hormuz opens the 20% of the world's oil supply that was blocked is reopened.

 

[Zavulon]

Not true

In WWII both Germany and Japan surrendered knowing the leadership would be arrested and executed after being removed from power

The mullahs are vowing that the persian people must die along with them

Most of Germans just changed their masters and came to serve Americans (and Russians), even lesser number of Japanese leaders were executed. Twelve Germans (plus some tens of them in other criminal courts) and seven Japanese. Plus American oil embargo was lifted and supply was even increased. The victors suggested them good terms of surrender and post-war environment.
Saddam generals as well as guys in Libyan opposition, also thought that there could be good post-war terms. They were wrong, and Persian people, I think, do understand that there will be no acceptable post-war environment for them in the case of Iranian defeat. Israeli and American behaviour clearly show them, that the only thing Persian people could face, is poverty, discrimination, pillage and genocide.
That's why they are not going to surrender.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Of course there are. Like if Iran truly wants nuclear weapons, and Russia is really ready to sell nukes to Iran, and US decision-makers decided that the only way to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons is to start a nuclear war against Russia, then, if the USA are unlucky, it can cease it's existence.

That is not a plausible scenario. It is just another one of your twisted fantasies about killing Americans.