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How is Solar Energy sustainable?

elektra

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Such a simple question, such a simple word, thrown out as fact, indisputable.

Solar is sustainable.

Sure, the sun shines, on some days, on others, not. Forever no, but long enough.

But Solar Energy is much different than simply stating, "The Sun Shines!" Solar is the Sun, Solar Energy is Heavy Industry. Is heavy Industry Sustainable?

Now, if Solar Panels grew on trees, that would qualify as, Sustainable.

Sustainability - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


In ecology, sustainability is how biological systems remain diverse and productive. Long-lived and healthy wetlands and forests are examples of sustainable biological systems

Solar Energy, gets a free pass, on sustainability.

Can we continue to divert our money, our labor into Solar, at rates that are simply expressed best as 100's of billions of dollars? Is that sustainable?

We can not sustain the whims of Government, Special Interest corporations, University "research", the "scientists".

Thus far Solar has failed to produce electricity in quantity to make any difference, other than in EXPENSE.

How is Solar Sustainable? That makes no sense at all.
 

Pogo

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Apparently when you say "solar" you mean photovoltaics only. That's not all there is to it.

But regardless how it's harnessed, solar energy is "sustainable" in that the simple fact of the sun shining, whether it's put to special use or not, doesn't deplete anything. It's going to shine the next day exactly the same.
 

S.J.

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Solar energy may be feasible in the future but can't come close to providing energy at a cost comparable to fossil fuels at this time, and it never will be as long as government is involved in it's development because they can't do anything efficiently. Never have, never will.
 

X.Onasis

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How is solar energy sustainable? By definition.

Sustainable energy is the form of energy obtained from non-exhaustible resources, such that the provision of this form of energy serves the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their needs.

Technologies that promote sustainable energy include renewable energy sources, such as hydroelectricity, solar energy, wind energy, wave power, geothermal energy, bioenergy, tidal power and also technologies designed to improve energy efficiency. Costs have fallen dramatically in recent years, and continue to fall. Most of these technologies are either economically competitive or close to being so. Increasingly, effective government policies support investor confidence and these markets are expanding. Considerable progress is being made in the energy transition from fossil fuels to ecologically sustainable systems, to the point where many studies support 100% renewable energy.

Sustainable energy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
 

X.Onasis

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Solar energy may be feasible in the future but can't come close to providing energy at a cost comparable to fossil fuels at this time, and it never will be as long as government is involved in it's development because they can't do anything efficiently. Never have, never will.

It's getting closer to being comparable every year.

module_prices.jpg



cum_pv_installs.jpg


And the government has been quite efficient in getting many things done. Where do you think you'd be without roads, bridges, schools, the police and military, firefighters, clean air and water, safe food, healthcare, medicine and thousand other services you depend on that government provides?
 
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S.J.

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Solar energy may be feasible in the future but can't come close to providing energy at a cost comparable to fossil fuels at this time, and it never will be as long as government is involved in it's development because they can't do anything efficiently. Never have, never will.

It's getting closer to being comparable every year.

module_prices.jpg



cum_pv_installs.jpg


And the government has been quite efficient in getting many things done. Where do you think you'd be without roads, bridges, schools, the police and military, firefighters, clean air and water, safe food, healthcare, medicine and thousand other services you depend on that government provides?
Nobody is advocating NO government at all. Don't be ridiculous.
 
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elektra

elektra

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Apparently when you say "solar" you mean photovoltaics only. That's not all there is to it.

But regardless how it's harnessed, solar energy is "sustainable" in that the simple fact of the sun shining, whether it's put to special use or not, doesn't deplete anything. It's going to shine the next day exactly the same.

We are speaking of the cost and manufacture of Solar panels, is this sustainable.

Type? Does not really matter

As far as the Sun shining the same every day kind of has nothing to do with the sustainability of the Industry that manufactures any type of Solar power plant.
 
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elektra

elektra

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How is solar energy sustainable? By definition.

Sustainable energy is the form of energy obtained from non-exhaustible resources, such that the provision of this form of energy serves the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their needs.

Technologies that promote sustainable energy include renewable energy sources, such as hydroelectricity, solar energy, wind energy, wave power, geothermal energy, bioenergy, tidal power and also technologies designed to improve energy efficiency. Costs have fallen dramatically in recent years, and continue to fall. Most of these technologies are either economically competitive or close to being so. Increasingly, effective government policies support investor confidence and these markets are expanding. Considerable progress is being made in the energy transition from fossil fuels to ecologically sustainable systems, to the point where many studies support 100% renewable energy.

Sustainable energy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Right, the sun, earth, wind, and fire are never exhausted, sure, a given.

But all those technologies are 100% on heavy industry which depends on oil, natural gas, and nuclear power.

Solar's dependence on fossil fuel makes solar only sustainable as long as we can make the energy solar is dependent on.

There is no transition from fossil fuels to Solar.

Wikipedia is hardly a "technical", reference.

Seems more like a philosophy.

Non-exhaustible? Sure the sun will shine forever, big deal. Solar panels last a short period then get replaced, the solar panel literally gets exhausted, then we need to manufacture another, and another, and another.

Is geothermal "non-exhaustible", I think the bankruptcies and constant drilling at the Salton Sea indicates otherwise. The Geysers in California is another example, where we literally must frack, because that source was exhausted.

So let's get beyond the philosophical, and speak if the technical reality we are faced with.
 
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elektra

elektra

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Solar energy may be feasible in the future but can't come close to providing energy at a cost comparable to fossil fuels at this time, and it never will be as long as government is involved in it's development because they can't do anything efficiently. Never have, never will.

It's getting closer to being comparable every year.

module_prices.jpg



cum_pv_installs.jpg


And the government has been quite efficient in getting many things done. Where do you think you'd be without roads, bridges, schools, the police and military, firefighters, clean air and water, safe food, healthcare, medicine and thousand other services you depend on that government provides?
The government does all this? In a Marxist society yes, not in our Republic.

Where would we be without the government? Considering we worked, ate, and had roads before government, I think it is safe to speculate your premise is backwards or simply describes a Marxist society.
 

X.Onasis

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Solar energy may be feasible in the future but can't come close to providing energy at a cost comparable to fossil fuels at this time, and it never will be as long as government is involved in it's development because they can't do anything efficiently. Never have, never will.

It's getting closer to being comparable every year.

module_prices.jpg



cum_pv_installs.jpg


And the government has been quite efficient in getting many things done. Where do you think you'd be without roads, bridges, schools, the police and military, firefighters, clean air and water, safe food, healthcare, medicine and thousand other services you depend on that government provides?
The government does all this? In a Marxist society yes, not in our Republic.

Where would we be without the government? Considering we worked, ate, and had roads before government, I think it is safe to speculate your premise is backwards or simply describes a Marxist society.

Your attempt at refuting my statement by constructing the flimsiest strawman possible is laughable. The invincible ignorance it represents, especially while hiding behind your "Marxist" boogieman, shows once again, you haven't the chops to engage on a "technical" level.

Forget the fact that you've chosen to run from every single question I've posed in two of your threads now, and even forget the fact you criticize others for making only philosophical statements instead of "technical" ones, while you repeat unsubstantiated claims and nonsensical opinions, your bluffing and superciliousness is childish in the extreme. You have no interest in discussing the sustainability of solar energy, you don't even understand the mechanics of its many facets. All you seem to care about is promoting your short-sighted and simplistic agenda.

Once again, roads, bridges, schools, the police and military, and firefighters are all things provided and supported by our non-Marxist government. And the regulation of clean air and water, safe food, reliable healthcare and medicine and a thousand other services you depend on, including the safety and most likely the very job you have, are things very much depended on in this country regardless of what you "speculate."

BTW, when I suggested you "keep it up" with your illiterate squirming, it was rhetorical, not a challenge.
 

Pogo

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Solar energy may be feasible in the future but can't come close to providing energy at a cost comparable to fossil fuels at this time, and it never will be as long as government is involved in it's development because they can't do anything efficiently. Never have, never will.

You could pretty much replace the word "solar" with the word "nuclear" there. Fun fact.
Let's drop the pretense that one's different from the other as far as institutional foundational support -- shall we?
 
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Pogo

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Apparently when you say "solar" you mean photovoltaics only. That's not all there is to it.

But regardless how it's harnessed, solar energy is "sustainable" in that the simple fact of the sun shining, whether it's put to special use or not, doesn't deplete anything. It's going to shine the next day exactly the same.

We are speaking of the cost and manufacture of Solar panels, is this sustainable.

Type? Does not really matter

As far as the Sun shining the same every day kind of has nothing to do with the sustainability of the Industry that manufactures any type of Solar power plant.

Yeah it does matter. One of the major uses of "solar power" is heat, including hot water. That requires no photovoltaic cells at all. Just sunlight and a water reservoir.

Heat your water that way and you don't need a gas/electric water heater.
 
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elektra

elektra

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Apparently when you say "solar" you mean photovoltaics only. That's not all there is to it.

But regardless how it's harnessed, solar energy is "sustainable" in that the simple fact of the sun shining, whether it's put to special use or not, doesn't deplete anything. It's going to shine the next day exactly the same.

We are speaking of the cost and manufacture of Solar panels, is this sustainable.

Type? Does not really matter

As far as the Sun shining the same every day kind of has nothing to do with the sustainability of the Industry that manufactures any type of Solar power plant.

Yeah it does matter. One of the major uses of "solar power" is heat, including hot water. That requires no photovoltaic cells at all. Just sunlight and a water reservoir.

Heat your water that way and you don't need a gas/electric water heater.

All I need is a reservoir and the sun? And what about in the winter? When the sun lays low? At best you have warm water, kind of just like being in a third world country

Solar makes a hot bath, a luxury.

My house has a solar hot water heater, from november until march the sun stays to low to give me hot water.

A solar hot water heater can't sustain hot baths, in the evening nor anytime in the winter.

Commercial use of CSP, has thus far not met expectations as in Ivanpah.

The sun, thus is not sustainable, unless you can consider random as well as intermittent power sustainable.
 

Pogo

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Apparently when you say "solar" you mean photovoltaics only. That's not all there is to it.

But regardless how it's harnessed, solar energy is "sustainable" in that the simple fact of the sun shining, whether it's put to special use or not, doesn't deplete anything. It's going to shine the next day exactly the same.

We are speaking of the cost and manufacture of Solar panels, is this sustainable.

Type? Does not really matter

As far as the Sun shining the same every day kind of has nothing to do with the sustainability of the Industry that manufactures any type of Solar power plant.

Yeah it does matter. One of the major uses of "solar power" is heat, including hot water. That requires no photovoltaic cells at all. Just sunlight and a water reservoir.

Heat your water that way and you don't need a gas/electric water heater.

All I need is a reservoir and the sun? And what about in the winter? When the sun lays low? At best you have warm water, kind of just like being in a third world country

Solar makes a hot bath, a luxury.

My house has a solar hot water heater, from november until march the sun stays to low to give me hot water.

A solar hot water heater can't sustain hot baths, in the evening nor anytime in the winter.

Commercial use of CSP, has thus far not met expectations as in Ivanpah.

The sun, thus is not sustainable, unless you can consider random as well as intermittent power sustainable.

No, you have hot water. I learned this about a million years ago when I worked in a greenhouse and saw that even if the outside temp was 10 degrees we'd have to open up the kwonset huts and run the fans to relieve our plants from being wilted by the heat. Which was generated entirely by the sunlight.

That's why you face your sun catchers to the south. To direct sunlight directly, regardless what season it is. Sounds like yours is poorly designed.
 

X.Onasis

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Let's get technical. Post some pictures, specs. and data of your solar water heater system and we can show you where, besides jumping to illogical conjecture, your misconceptions lie.
 
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elektra

elektra

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Apparently when you say "solar" you mean photovoltaics only. That's not all there is to it.

But regardless how it's harnessed, solar energy is "sustainable" in that the simple fact of the sun shining, whether it's put to special use or not, doesn't deplete anything. It's going to shine the next day exactly the same.

We are speaking of the cost and manufacture of Solar panels, is this sustainable.

Type? Does not really matter

As far as the Sun shining the same every day kind of has nothing to do with the sustainability of the Industry that manufactures any type of Solar power plant.

Yeah it does matter. One of the major uses of "solar power" is heat, including hot water. That requires no photovoltaic cells at all. Just sunlight and a water reservoir.

Heat your water that way and you don't need a gas/electric water heater.

All I need is a reservoir and the sun? And what about in the winter? When the sun lays low? At best you have warm water, kind of just like being in a third world country

Solar makes a hot bath, a luxury.

My house has a solar hot water heater, from november until march the sun stays to low to give me hot water.

A solar hot water heater can't sustain hot baths, in the evening nor anytime in the winter.

Commercial use of CSP, has thus far not met expectations as in Ivanpah.

The sun, thus is not sustainable, unless you can consider random as well as intermittent power sustainable.

No, you have hot water. I learned this about a million years ago when I worked in a greenhouse and saw that even if the outside temp was 10 degrees we'd have to open up the kwonset huts and run the fans to relieve our plants from being wilted by the heat. Which was generated entirely by the sunlight.

That's why you face your sun catchers to the south. To direct sunlight directly, regardless what season it is. Sounds like yours is poorly designed.
Of course it is poorly designed, it is SOLAR.

Solar can not sustain heat during the winter, nor at night, nor during cloudy days.

The sun just does not rise that high during the winter.
 
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elektra

elektra

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Let's get technical. Post some pictures, specs. and data of your solar water heater system and we can show you where, besides jumping to illogical conjecture, your misconceptions lie.
You have yet to even remotely post anything other than rhetoric, period.

Anytime you wish to qualify yourself, technically feel free.

Thus far, your three dozen responses to me have been nothing but flames and trolls, which is all you deserve in return.
 

X.Onasis

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I built a house about 35 years ago where the water pipes leading to the solar collectors, which were incidentally inside the living space, up in the cathedral ceiling under skylights, traveled through the interior mass block wall which also served as the return air plenum for the central air recirculating system. The system worked well. Perhaps a fifth of typical conventional electric DHW costs, and very likely well within the ability to have 100% solar heated water, with the addition of PV.
 
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elektra

elektra

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I built a house about 35 years ago where the water pipes leading to the solar collectors, which were incidentally inside the living space, up in the cathedral ceiling under skylights, traveled through the interior mass block wall which also served as the return air plenum for the central air recirculating system. The system worked well. Perhaps a fifth of typical conventional electric DHW costs, and very likely well within the ability to have 100% solar heated water, with the addition of PV.
Well, post the technical details, and the pics, you have proven yourself as being able to troll and flame.
 

X.Onasis

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Let's get technical. Post some pictures, specs. and data of your solar water heater system and we can show you where, besides jumping to illogical conjecture, your misconceptions lie.
You have yet to even remotely post anything other than rhetoric, period.

Anytime you wish to qualify yourself, technically feel free.

Thus far, your three dozen responses to me have been nothing but flames and trolls, which is all you deserve in return.
I started by asking you to qualify your statement and answer simple questions, and in return you've attacked me and puked on yourself. Apparently, your only area of expertise.
You're an expert because, "analyst"? You can't be questioned because you posted a picture? You're a fraud and an illiterate fool with an agenda.
 

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