How is Solar Energy sustainable?

[X.Onasis]

Turning into Pee Wee Herman may be your best ploy yet. Old and over used, but still, your best.

 

[elektra]

Let's get technical. Post some pictures, specs. and data of your solar water heater system and we can show you where, besides jumping to illogical conjecture, your misconceptions lie.

You have yet to even remotely post anything other than rhetoric, period.

Anytime you wish to qualify yourself, technically feel free.

Thus far, your three dozen responses to me have been nothing but flames and trolls, which is all you deserve in return.

I started by asking you to qualify your statement and answer simple questions, and in return you've attacked me and puked on yourself. Apparently, your only area of expertise.
You're an expert because, "analyst"? You can't be questioned because you posted a picture? You're a fraud and an illiterate fool with an agenda.

Right, from the man/woman who consistently fails to post anything technical.

XonAssis, I stated I am an Analyst, Electrical Power Research Institute QDA.. You seem to be confused and still failing to live up to your own demands.

What is your technical expertise. Hell, take a pic, now of your technical expertise. I did, I ca. Explain what you see, again, if you do not understand what you see.

 

[X.Onasis]

What could be more convincing that you know of which you speak, eh? Of course the fact you've danced away from every single point I've made and every single question I've asked, make that pic no more valuable of any proof than one of your navel.

But if you refuse to even address your own original points, which BTW, I succinctly addressed in MY first post on this thread, please feel free to carry on vacillating between being both a supercilious, illiterate twit and a poor misunderstood victim of my trolling. It certainly works better than your "Solar hot water heater" bluff. BTW, you might ask an actual engineer why the word "hot" in that phrase also makes you look clueless.

 

[elektra]

How is solar energy sustainable? By definition.

Sustainable energy is the form of energy obtained from non-exhaustible resources, such that the provision of this form of energy serves the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their needs.

Technologies that promote sustainable energy include renewable energy sources, such as hydroelectricity, solar energy, wind energy, wave power, geothermal energy, bioenergy, tidal power and also technologies designed to improve energy efficiency. Costs have fallen dramatically in recent years, and continue to fall. Most of these technologies are either economically competitive or close to being so. Increasingly, effective government policies support investor confidence and these markets are expanding. Considerable progress is being made in the energy transition from fossil fuels to ecologically sustainable systems, to the point where many studies support 100% renewable energy.

Sustainable energy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia is the depth of your technical knowledge, you must be joking!

 

[X.Onasis]

All right, instead of refuting my reply of THE generally accepted definition of sustainable energy, which clearly makes you look like the idiot poser you are ... And of course, once again attacking ME ... Please link to any reputable source that states I'm wrong or defines it differently.

Go on, Bozo. Let's see your research expertise in action.

 

[elektra]

All right, instead of refuting my reply of THE generally accepted definition of sustainable energy, which clearly makes you look like the idiot poser you are ... And of course, once again attacking ME ... Please link to any reputable source that states I'm wrong or defines it differently.

Go on, Bozo. Let's see your research expertise in action.

I gave mine, I started this OP with links, you claim Solar is sustainable, not me, support your claim, support your opinion, hell, support what you suppose to be fact.

So, how about stop sniveling about who attacks who, and lets just stick to technical facts. Go ahead, I concede to let you go first, have at, unload all that great technical knowledge you have boasted of, go!

 

[HenryBHough]

Let's talk about solar generated electricity after the next volcano goes off and the skies are black for a couple of months.

Then when your batteries run out jump on your ******-rigged bicycle generators and pedal up enough electricity to run your computer and hope a whole herd are gerbils are doing the same to power the internet.

Of course that won't happen because backup fossil-fuel generators will save your spavined little asses.

 

[X.Onasis]

Go on, Bozo. Let's see your research expertise in action.

I gave mine, I started this OP with links, you claim Solar is sustainable, not me, support your claim, support your opinion, hell, support what you suppose to be fact.

So, how about stop sniveling about who attacks who, and lets just stick to technical facts. Go ahead, I concede to let you go first, have at, unload all that great technical knowledge you have boasted of, go!

You posted a single link, Bozo, and a quote relating to biological sustainability. And what happened to your indignation at that inferior source for information? Huh?
Is it possible to defend your nonsense in a more feeble way, Mr-Pretend-to-be-Analyst?

 

[OnePercenter]

Such a simple question, such a simple word, thrown out as fact, indisputable.

Solar is sustainable.

Sure, the sun shines, on some days, on others, not. Forever no, but long enough.

But Solar Energy is much different than simply stating, "The Sun Shines!" Solar is the Sun, Solar Energy is Heavy Industry. Is heavy Industry Sustainable?

Now, if Solar Panels grew on trees, that would qualify as, Sustainable.

Sustainability - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

In ecology, sustainability is how biological systems remain diverse and productive. Long-lived and healthy wetlands and forests are examples of sustainable biological systems

Solar Energy, gets a free pass, on sustainability.

Can we continue to divert our money, our labor into Solar, at rates that are simply expressed best as 100's of billions of dollars? Is that sustainable?

We can not sustain the whims of Government, Special Interest corporations, University "research", the "scientists".

Thus far Solar has failed to produce electricity in quantity to make any difference, other than in EXPENSE.

How is Solar Sustainable? That makes no sense at all.

On my house, all of components are 95% recyclable.

I have a zero dollar electric bill.

I had solar installed on my boat last summer and I never had to start the generator.

My point. Solar electricity on a large scale will do very little except provide additional profit for electric companies.

I have a friend who develops homes here in Vegas, and has approached me to fund a development of 100 all electric homes that will have all of their energy provided by a community solar farm of panels on every home, as well as the community park. The additional cost would be $60.00 per month for cost and upkeep.

I can wait to see the cow that utilities and their Republican whore politicians are going to have.

 

[elektra]

Such a simple question, such a simple word, thrown out as fact, indisputable.

Solar is sustainable.

Sure, the sun shines, on some days, on others, not. Forever no, but long enough.

But Solar Energy is much different than simply stating, "The Sun Shines!" Solar is the Sun, Solar Energy is Heavy Industry. Is heavy Industry Sustainable?

Now, if Solar Panels grew on trees, that would qualify as, Sustainable.

Sustainability - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

In ecology, sustainability is how biological systems remain diverse and productive. Long-lived and healthy wetlands and forests are examples of sustainable biological systems

Solar Energy, gets a free pass, on sustainability.

Can we continue to divert our money, our labor into Solar, at rates that are simply expressed best as 100's of billions of dollars? Is that sustainable?

We can not sustain the whims of Government, Special Interest corporations, University "research", the "scientists".

Thus far Solar has failed to produce electricity in quantity to make any difference, other than in EXPENSE.

How is Solar Sustainable? That makes no sense at all.

On my house, all of components are 95% recyclable.

I have a zero dollar electric bill.

I had solar installed on my boat last summer and I never had to start the generator.

My point. Solar electricity on a large scale will do very little except provide additional profit for electric companies.

I have a friend who develops homes here in Vegas, and has approached me to fund a development of 100 all electric homes that will have all of their energy provided by a community solar farm of panels on every home, as well as the community park. The additional cost would be $60.00 per month for cost and upkeep.

I can wait to see the cow that utilities and their Republican whore politicians are going to have.

I have no problem with people buying stuff for their homes, great statement on the "large scale" application. Can you give us specs? Brand name? Any pics of the Batteries? Not as a challenge or anything, simply because I have never seen one nor has anybody posted pics of their system. So it would be nice to finally see one.

I would love to see the project, even be part of the project. I have done many things in my life, from rewiring houses to building remote video systems to be used in a high radiation environment.

But, back to your house, how do you clean the panels? Pretty dusty in Vegas.

 

[elektra]

Go on, Bozo. Let's see your research expertise in action.

I gave mine, I started this OP with links, you claim Solar is sustainable, not me, support your claim, support your opinion, hell, support what you suppose to be fact.

So, how about stop sniveling about who attacks who, and lets just stick to technical facts. Go ahead, I concede to let you go first, have at, unload all that great technical knowledge you have boasted of, go!

You posted a single link, Bozo, and a quote relating to biological sustainability. And what happened to your indignation at that inferior source for information? Huh?
Is it possible to defend your nonsense in a more feeble way, Mr-Pretend-to-be-Analyst?

x onASSis, you care to see my research in action? You want me to define Sustainability again, because you think the Wikipedia link is strictly about, "biological". Well, thank you for the insight to your thinking, you read the quote but did not bother to follow the link, you assumed without doing anymore research, without following the link. I see now how you have come to believe in your nonsense. I see why you lack the technical knowledge to keep up.

From the link in my OP,

In ecology, sustainability is how biological systems remain diverse and productive. Long-lived and healthy wetlands and forests are examples of sustainable biological systems. In more general terms, sustainability is the endurance of systems and processes. Theorganizing principle for sustainability is sustainable development, which includes the four interconnected domains: ecology, economics, politics and culture.[1] Sustainability science is the study of sustainable development and environmental science.[2]

Healthy ecosystems and environments are necessary to the survival of humans and other organisms. Ways of reducing negative human impact are environmentally-friendly chemical engineering, environmental resources management and environmental protection. Information is gained from green chemistry, earth science, environmental science and conservation biology. Ecological economics studies the fields of academic research that aim to address human economies and natural ecosystems.

I understand you are simply trolling, that you have an ideology not supported by technical facts. Hence the reason you offer platitudes and insults.

You are simply an example for others to see, that when confronted with a Technical Question, you simply can not answer.

In this thread the question I put forth, is how is Solar Sustainable.

Not one person has answered that question. From what I gather, people simply believe because somebody said so.

xonAssis, you gave a simple definition,? Big deal, defining the word Sustainable and applying the word to Solar, does not make Solar sustainable.

 

[n0spam4me]

I really wonder if any study has been done to show how much energy it takes to mine iron out of the ground and melt it down to make an engine block and then the total energy to operate the factory where the engine is assembled and then the energy required to extract petrol from the ground and refine it for fuel and to then the whole energy requirement to manufacture the generator to be powered by the engine, and so the total cost in energy to produce a given Kilowatt from a diesel generator?

My gut level interpretation is that the systems currently in use by humanity are running a dead loss sort of energy use and sooner or later this will catch up with us.

 

[X.Onasis]

elektra- - Words have meaning, Bozo. You don't get to redefine "sustainable energy" or other common words pertaining to renewables because of your own ignorance or suspicions, regardless of whether or not you choose to randomly capitalize them.
Worse, you keep insisting on "technical" answers and keep questioning the knowledge of others, while you've demonstrated the inability to answer even the simplest questions, and have shown absolutely no knowledge of even the fundamentals of solar technology.

Your childish claims by someone claiming to be an analyst are bizarre. You don't think solar energy is sustainable because although the sun is an inexhaustible supply of energy, photo voltaic collectors won't last forever and need to be replaced? WTF?

You've made vague claims that it takes more energy to harness solar energy than can be used, yet blithely ignore the fact that not just warming the earth itself, but most energy we can and do harness, came originally from the sun, including fossil fuels.
I understand what you're trying to get at, but you haven't shown the capacity to find Jump Street let alone take a stroll.

What sort of "technical" responses do these idiotic statements deserve:

"Of course it is poorly designed, it is SOLAR."

That non sequitur was a logical fallacy, but it did beg the question, (see what I did there?) "What year did you drop out of high school?"

"Solar can not sustain heat during the winter, nor at night, nor during cloudy days."

What? Some sort of "technical analyst" doesn't understand that heat loss and storage systems are unrelated to heat source? Clearly a lesson in BTU's, R-values and their relationship to U-values would be futile.

"The sun just does not rise that high during the winter."

Right! That's why you can only take a bath in the summer at noon, Bozo.

 

[X.Onasis]

I really wonder if any study has been done to show how much energy it takes to mine iron out of the ground and melt it down to make an engine block and then the total energy to operate the factory where the engine is assembled and then the energy required to extract petrol from the ground and refine it for fuel and to then the whole energy requirement to manufacture the generator to be powered by the engine, and so the total cost in energy to produce a given Kilowatt from a diesel generator?

My gut level interpretation is that the systems currently in use by humanity are running a dead loss sort of energy use and sooner or later this will catch up with us.

Good points.

Exactly right. But there's really no need to have an actual figure of what all that energy totals. Even if we could tally the BTU's and Kilowatts, we couldn't put a figure on lost lives, health, environmental loss or clean-up and all the other ancillary expenditures like acquiring and protecting assets overseas.

What we do know, which is pertinent to this thread, is even if we found a way to cheaply consume sea water as an energy source, eventually it would be depleted, and therefore would not be sustainable.

 

[elektra]

I really wonder if any study has been done to show how much energy it takes to mine iron out of the ground and melt it down to make an engine block and then the total energy to operate the factory where the engine is assembled and then the energy required to extract petrol from the ground and refine it for fuel and to then the whole energy requirement to manufacture the generator to be powered by the engine, and so the total cost in energy to produce a given Kilowatt from a diesel generator?

My gut level interpretation is that the systems currently in use by humanity are running a dead loss sort of energy use and sooner or later this will catch up with us.

Great question, how much energy does it take to make a block, if a dollar represents the true cost of a Block, just look up the cost of short block or a crate motor. For a crate motor, my guess is 2500$.

But seeing how this thread is about Solar and if its sustainable, how much oil does it take produce a solar panel. Of course an engine is not using rare metal, so how long can we sustain the mining of the rare earth elements, in which Solar is dependent on. Or better yet how can you make a Solar Panel of any type, without fossil fuels. To me, using fossil fuel to make solar panels is not sustainable.

The claim is Fossil Fuels are not sustainable but Solar pansel manufacture is sustainable, yet you must increase production of Oil to produce Solar panels?

It is a simply lie, Solar is nor more sustainable than burning Fossil fuel.

So how much oil, fossil fuel, does it take to cover 5 square miles with Solar Panels?

Or, how many total square miles of land must Solar cover to provide 20% of our energy? How many tons of Batteries are you proposing we use?

Solar Power plants get thrown away, they wear out, quickly. How often to Commercial Solar Plants replace the panels? We already know its an issue across the world, as the Solar companies go bankrupt and they fail to uphold their warranties.

We get an easy 40 years of operation from one nuclear power plant, when it comes to Solar we are told it will take 40 years of building and installing Solar panels to cover the 1000's of square miles required to provide us with 5% of our peak demand energy, no more. We must forever build and replace Solar panels, forever.

So how much oil will it take to forever keep building the Sustainable Solar canard?

Or, how much water in the drought ridden desert of the southwest will it take to clean the 1000's of square miles of solar panels? Who pays for the water, who builds the infrastructure? Do they get to drain precious desert aquifers? When will we quit giving Solar a free pass on EPA regulations? Why does the public have to build the power lines to the Solar plant when every other utility built their own? How long can we sustain billions in subsidies?

Lots of questions, so how much Oil does it take, to make a Solar Panel, how much oil does it take to maintain a solar plant, and how much oil will it take to throw away the solar panels after its brief life, maybe 10 years?

Nobody promoting Solar has the answers to the basic question, how is Solar sustainable.

 

[elektra]

elektra- - Words have meaning, Bozo. You don't get to redefine "sustainable energy" or other common words pertaining to renewables because of your own ignorance or suspicions, regardless of whether or not you choose to randomly capitalize them.
Worse, you keep insisting on "technical" answers and keep questioning the knowledge of others, while you've demonstrated the inability to answer even the simplest questions, and have shown absolutely no knowledge of even the fundamentals of solar technology.

Your childish claims by someone claiming to be an analyst are bizarre. You don't think solar energy is sustainable because although the sun is an inexhaustible supply of energy, photo voltaic collectors won't last forever and need to be replaced? WTF?

You've made vague claims that it takes more energy to harness solar energy than can be used, yet blithely ignore the fact that not just warming the earth itself, but most energy we can and do harness, came originally from the sun, including fossil fuels.
I understand what you're trying to get at, but you haven't shown the capacity to find Jump Street let alone take a stroll.

What sort of "technical" responses do these idiotic statements deserve:

"Of course it is poorly designed, it is SOLAR."

That non sequitur was a logical fallacy, but it did beg the question, (see what I did there?) "What year did you drop out of high school?"

"Solar can not sustain heat during the winter, nor at night, nor during cloudy days."

What? Some sort of "technical analyst" doesn't understand that heat loss and storage systems are unrelated to heat source? Clearly a lesson in BTU's, R-values and their relationship to U-values would be futile.

"The sun just does not rise that high during the winter."

Right! That's why you can only take a bath in the summer at noon, Bozo.

Solar can maintain heat without the sun? In a industrial sized commercial solar power plant, I guess that is why Solar Plants use natural gas to keep the heat up when clouds go by? Right?

This thread is not about some sort of vague claim, this thread is literally a direct response to you x-onASSis, and all those posts where you make the unsubstantiated claim that Solar is Sustainable.

I gave you the opportunity to here, to give us you in depth Technical Knowledge of how Solar is Sustainable, and I am sorry but your answer that the "sun always shines" is a bit sophomoric.

I see you skipped over your last failed post and ignored your gross error, why is that, you have no response when you give us the proof you have a shallow knowledge of Solar beyond the headlines you read.

How many posts is that you can not quote and respond to? At least 2 dozen now.

Anyhow, all who read this will see if you, xonASSis will prove your mouth and post some of that great Technical Knowledge on the Sustainability of Solar.

This thread was specifically made so that xOnASSis could demonstrate his/her technical knowledge on the sustainability of Solar, and that is Solar Panels or Systems, not that the Sun shines part of the day.

 

[X.Onasis]

I've built homes that consume 50% to 75% less energy than similar homes in the same degree-day zones. The added cost was in the neighborhood of 2-10% of total construction cost. My 25 year old home in NY will cost about $2000 less this year to heat than my neighbor directly across the street. That's a one-to-two-year pay back. Is it sustainable in your little mind, Bozo?

 

[elektra]

I've built homes that consume 50% to 75% less energy than similar homes in the same degree-day zones. The added cost was in the neighborhood of 2-10% of total construction cost. My 25 year old home in NY will cost about $2000 less this year to heat than my neighbor directly across the street. That's a one-to-two-year pay back. Is it sustainable in your little mind, Bozo?

Who are you replying to? Show us the pictures of the installed solar system, I would like to see what you are talking about. Or is this your way of stating your Technical Knowledge of Solar, that you somehow or in some way are part of something that builds houses?

Sustainability, how about Aluminum production, that is a sustainable business, yes or no?

 

[HenryBHough]

When you control what you allow yourself to control what you use solar can be a very good thing. Here's an installation I threw together over ten years ago and it's still running for the present owner. Storage is two batteries of a size commonly used in small earth movers. When the sun shines 5 days charging brings up the batteries to where they'll last at least two days of lighting, CD player and occasional use of VHF ham radio. But can't let the batteries discharge too much if there's threat of a solid week of no sun 'cause the electrolyte would freeze.

Note, they're not optimally angled and face slightly off the ideal direction but did the job without a lot of expense.

 

[elektra]

Not one person can explain why Solar is Sustainable because Solar is not sustainable. If one thing it takes to manufacture Solar is not sustainable than Solar is not Sustainable. Oil must be Sustainable, in order to call Solar Sustainable, you need Oil to make Solar.

Is Oil Sustainable.