How dumb is our leadership? Negotiate with N Korea AGAIN

[Flopper]

With the war in Afghanistan winding down the defense industry needs another threat to justify the massive military spending. Defense contractors are licking their chops hoping the fat little Korean blunders N korea into War.

With both North Korea and Iran rushing to produce ICBM's that can deliver a nuclear warhead to cities in the US, it seems likely that we will put more emphasis on developing more effective missile defense against strategic missiles, ICBM's. The success rate of the Ground-Based Midcourse Defense system stands at about 50%. Not to good if North Korea launched 10 ICBM's at 10 US cities and 5 hit their target.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Hiow do you spell "Munich, September, 1938"?
John Kerry never met a tyrant he wasn't ready, willing, and able to surrender to.
"The appearance of weakness always begets aggression."
"The Japanese were astounded at how graciously accommodating the Western Democracies were (to Germany) and began making plans of their own" "A World At Arms" Gerhard Weinburg

How is the situation of North Korea remotely equivalent to Nazi Germany?

Do you have any understanding of history?

North Korean citizens are put in work camps even though they are not guilty of any crime. Childen are forced to work in those camps as well. The living conditions are deplorable and those who have survived & escaped NK say the only thing to compare it to is the death camps of Hitler. The people are so thin they are mere skeletons, the guards brutal like nazi ss officers, a baby is born by kicking the woman stomach until she goes into labor, baby is born and the guard snaps its neck, cuts the cord, sends mother back out to workline. Any complaints you are shot dead right then and there. North Korea is doing to its own people what Hitler did to his. No where on the face of the earth are more torturous practices engaged in then in North Korea. It is hell on earth over there. - J.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

November 15, 2002

Bush Must Listen To Allies​

"Clinton tried bribery instead of force. A 1994 agreement led to the establishment of an international consortium that has begun to build two light-water nuclear power plants in North Korea, which would supply needed electricity without producing weapons materials. And the United States agreed to supply oil for conventional power production to North Korea in the meantime.

In return, Pyongyang agreed to shut down its plutonium recovery program.

This it did. The uranium program disclosed last month is a new and different program, apparently made possible by equipment from Pakistan in exchange for North Korean aid in building its missile-delivery systems.

Washington proposes to shut down the power plant project, the oil shipments and any talks with Pyongyang until the uranium program is abandoned, with international verification.

That's the goal, of course. But South Korea and Japan, in announcements made this week, see things very differently. While calling on North Korea to abandon any sort of nuclear weapons program, they suggest that canceling the power plants and oil shipments would give Pyongyang an excuse to resume the plutonium-processing program — far more dangerous than the uranium project — that it shelved in 1995.

Of course, Tokyo and Seoul recognize that any sort of nuclear weapons program in North Korea is a brazen violation of the 1994 agreement — indeed, they are the parties most threatened by it. But they believe dialogue, not isolation, is more likely to bring real peace.

Bush should pay attention. At the very least, engagement might reduce the danger of war on the Korean peninsula at a time when he is tied down with Iraq and Afghanistan.

But if dialogue proves successful with North Korea, Bush then will have to explain why it couldn't have worked with Iraq."

​

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

With the war in Afghanistan winding down the defense industry needs another threat to justify the massive military spending. Defense contractors are licking their chops hoping the fat little Korean blunders N korea into War.

With both North Korea and Iran rushing to produce ICBM's that can deliver a nuclear warhead to cities in the US, it seems likely that we will put more emphasis on developing more effective missile defense against strategic missiles, ICBM's. The success rate of the Ground-Based Midcourse Defense system stands at about 50%. Not to good if North Korea launched 10 ICBM's at 10 US cities and 5 hit their target.

That was the same pitch ReRon Regan made, regarding Star Wars.

He insisted we'd be able to intercept 90% of incoming-missiles!!!!!

At that time, the estimate was that the USSR had 5,000 missiles.

Stupid fuckin' ReRon!​

 

[Flopper]

Hiow do you spell "Munich, September, 1938"?
John Kerry never met a tyrant he wasn't ready, willing, and able to surrender to.
"The appearance of weakness always begets aggression."
"The Japanese were astounded at how graciously accommodating the Western Democracies were (to Germany) and began making plans of their own" "A World At Arms" Gerhard Weinburg

How is the situation of North Korea remotely equivalent to Nazi Germany?

Do you have any understanding of history?

North Korean citizens are put in work camps even though they are not guilty of any crime. Childen are forced to work in those camps as well. The living conditions are deplorable and those who have survived & escaped NK say the only thing to compare it to is the death camps of Hitler. The people are so thin they are mere skeletons, the guards brutal like nazi ss officers, a baby is born by kicking the woman stomach until she goes into labor, baby is born and the guard snaps its neck, cuts the cord, sends mother back out to workline. Any complaints you are shot dead right then and there. North Korea is doing to its own people what Hitler did to his. No where on the face of the earth are more torturous practices engaged in then in North Korea. It is hell on earth over there. - J.

The following link is pretty sickening to view. How much is truth and how much is just propaganda, is hard to say because few people have escaped from one of these camps.

Life In North Korea Prison Camp Horror - Business Insider

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Another afternoon o' kickin' Teabagger-ass....and stackin' 'em like cordwood.

It doesn't get much better than this.....​

 

[jon_berzerk]

How many times are we going to fall for this mousetrap? How many times are we going to let Lucy pull the football out from under us?

Time and again North Korea stomps its feet and we come running with the latest edition of HOW STUPID IS AMERICA

Washington Post

History repeats itself


in the year 2000 in an effort to stop North Korea from building nuclear weapons

president Clintons SOS gave North Korean leader Kim Jong-il a basketball signed by

Micheal Jordan

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h3GPc_yMCE]The David Zucker Albright Ad - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Two Thumbs]

How many times are we going to fall for this mousetrap? How many times are we going to let Lucy pull the football out from under us?

Time and again North Korea stomps its feet and we come running with the latest edition of HOW STUPID IS AMERICA

Washington Post

I'd give mad props for this sceen;

reporter; President obama, the leader of NK, Kim Un and declared that he will destroy >insertsomething< is a storm of fire.

Pres; )yawns( )brushes shoulder off( Who?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Another afternoon o' kickin' Teabagger-ass....and stackin' 'em like cordwood.

It doesn't get much better than this.....​

Such violent rhetoric


Channeling your inner hypocrite again?

 

[JimH52]

Snip:

The United States and Japan on Sunday offered new talks with North Korea to resolve the increasingly dangerous standoff over its nuclear and missile programs, but said the reclusive communist government first must lower tensions and honor previous agreements.

Sound familiar? Do you suppose it will be magically different this time?

So should we tell the world they have WMD and invade them? They do you know?

Please! The cowboy is shining his boots in Texas. Let him stay there.

 

[depotoo]

The figures will probably always vary wildly depending on which side you're listening to.
Here's what Wiki says:

"Total civilians killed/wounded: 2.5 million (est.)[9]
South Korea: 990,968
373,599 killed[9]
229,625 wounded[9]
387,744 abducted/missing[9]
North Korea: 1,550,000 (est.)"

Korean War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Other accounts place the population of North Korea at 9 million when the war began with about six million survivors in 1953. Whatever the actual numbers, hundreds of thousands of North Korean civilians died primarily from US air power, and they haven't forgotten or forgiven.

once again, you stated possibly 20% of their population. You are wrong. Very wrong. Not even your erroneous figures you just posted support that.
And most figures agree with total for all sides deaths totalled around 1.2 million.

If the total population of North Korea was nine million when the war began and six million when it ended, that would be closer to one in three Koreans who died resisting a foreign invasion/occupation. I also can't help notice you're conflating US military deaths with Korean civilian fatalities.

First off I can't find anywhere that confirms your figures. Secondly, if you recall it was North Korea that started the war and was then supported by China. Not as you stated.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Why not negotiate with North Korea? This is th way the game has been played for 60 years. They act all crazy threatening everyone. We offer them some trade I they stop acting crazy and they claim victory

Big deal

It is a big deal. I'm not keen on my tax dollars being blown to pacify psychopaths and then having further taxes demanded.

You might be stupid enough to be ok with that but I'm certainly not.

 

[georgephillip]

How is the situation of North Korea remotely equivalent to Nazi Germany?

Do you have any understanding of history?

North Korean citizens are put in work camps even though they are not guilty of any crime. Childen are forced to work in those camps as well. The living conditions are deplorable and those who have survived & escaped NK say the only thing to compare it to is the death camps of Hitler. The people are so thin they are mere skeletons, the guards brutal like nazi ss officers, a baby is born by kicking the woman stomach until she goes into labor, baby is born and the guard snaps its neck, cuts the cord, sends mother back out to workline. Any complaints you are shot dead right then and there. North Korea is doing to its own people what Hitler did to his. No where on the face of the earth are more torturous practices engaged in then in North Korea. It is hell on earth over there. - J.

The following link is pretty sickening to view. How much is truth and how much is just propaganda, is hard to say because few people have escaped from one of these camps.

Life In North Korea Prison Camp Horror - Business Insider

"North Korea's human rights record has been widely condemned, including by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch and the United Nations.

"The General Assembly of the United Nations has since 2003 annually adopted a resolution condemning the country's human rights record. The latest resolution of December 19, 2011, passed by a vote of 123&#8211;16 with 51 abstentions, urged the government in Pyongyang to end its 'systematic, widespread and grave violations of human rights', which included public executions and arbitrary detentions.

"North Korea rejected the resolution, saying it was politically motivated and based upon untrue fabrications..."

"Human rights discourse in North Korea has a history which predates the establishment of the state in 1948.

"Based on Marxist theory, Confucian tradition, and the Juche idea, North Korean human rights theory holds that rights are conditional rather than universal, that collective rights take priority over individual rights, and that welfare and subsistence rights are important.[9]

"According to Kim Il-Sung, the concept of democracy cannot 'provide freedom and rights to hostile elements who oppose socialism or impure elements who act against the interests of the People.'[10]

"The government of North Korea claims that the Constitution of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea guarantees the human rights of its people, and that these guarantees are fully elaborated in its laws and regulations. It claims that these human rights guarantees and laws are strictly enforced throughout the country and with respect to every individual.[11]

Human rights in North Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

once again, you stated possibly 20% of their population. You are wrong. Very wrong. Not even your erroneous figures you just posted support that.
And most figures agree with total for all sides deaths totalled around 1.2 million.

If the total population of North Korea was nine million when the war began and six million when it ended, that would be closer to one in three Koreans who died resisting a foreign invasion/occupation. I also can't help notice you're conflating US military deaths with Korean civilian fatalities.

First off I can't find anywhere that confirms your figures. Secondly, if you recall it was North Korea that started the war and was then supported by China. Not as you stated.

Finding accurate figures for the number of Koreans who died during the Korean War would require agreeing on a legitimate source. If we go by Wiki numbers, it doesn't appear that one third of North Koreans perished during the conflict. But we should also stipulate there were exactly 0 US civilians living in the US who died at the hands of North Koreans during that same time period.

As far as who started the war, while it's true the North invaded and occupied Seoul to launch the active phase of the war, it was the US who dissolved the People's Republic of Korea in 1946, four years prior to the invasion by the North.

"The People's Republic of Korea (PRK) was a short-lived provisional government that was organized with the aim to take over control of Korea shortly after the Surrender of the Empire of Japan at the end of World War II.

"It operated as a government from late August to early September 1945 until the United States Army Military Government in Korea was established in the southern portion of the Korean Peninsula by the United States of America.

"After that it operated unofficially, and in opposition to the United States Military Government, until it was forcibly dissolved in January 1946."

People's Republic of Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Millions of Koreans on both sides of the 38th parallel agreed they didn't need any stinking help from the US to reunify their country in 1945. Had we kept our star-spangled snouts out of their business at that time, we wouldn't be having this conversation today.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Why not negotiate with North Korea? This is th way the game has been played for 60 years. They act all crazy threatening everyone. We offer them some trade I they stop acting crazy and they claim victory

Big deal

That would give Obama the Big Historical Stage He's Here For.
Clinton and Carter have both been to North Korea.
This morning I listened on the radio to a US citizen who toured there recently.
If anybody alive can talk to Kim, it's probably Obama.

Lol

 

[georgephillip]

Why not negotiate with North Korea? This is th way the game has been played for 60 years. They act all crazy threatening everyone. We offer them some trade I they stop acting crazy and they claim victory

Big deal

That would give Obama the Big Historical Stage He's Here For.
Clinton and Carter have both been to North Korea.
This morning I listened on the radio to a US citizen who toured there recently.
If anybody alive can talk to Kim, it's probably Obama.

Lol

Where's the joke between "deterrent" and "pre-emptive"?

"Missing in what passes for discourse on the DPRK in the corporate media is that the US was conducting month-long war maneuvers last March in Korea, now extended into April, using stealth bombers, undetectable by radar, capable of carrying nuclear weapons. And this year these are not 'deterrent' war maneuvers, but 'pre-emptive war' maneuvers.

"Would the US government and people get a little 'irrational' if a foreign country that previously had killed millions of our people, sent nuclear capable stealth bombers off the coasts of New York City, Washington DC, Houston, Miami, Los Angeles, San Francisco, there to fly around for a month in preparation for a possible nuclear attack on us? For what is called, in warped US language, war 'games'&#8221;?

North Korea?s Justifiable Anger » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Who needs corporate media when you have pussified, adolescent, tripe like "counterpunch" for pretend revolutionaries.............

 

[georgephillip]

Point out the tripe:

"The US was supposed to leave in 1948, along with the Soviet Union, but because Kim Il Sung was likely to win planned nation-wide elections, the US made the division permanent and blocked national elections, just as it did later in Vietnam. This lead to the Korean War, the cause of the present militarization: A foreign country divided and occupied their country against their will."

North Korea?s Justifiable Anger » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[depotoo]

talk about revisionist history...

 

[georgephillip]

talk about revisionist history...

Who writes the history?
Usually the winning government.
All governments lie.