How are Democrats pro-abortion but anti-school voucher?

[NYcarbineer]

Of course i did: The purpose of pubic schools is (or at least ought to be) to provide a minimum standard of education for all regardless of their parent's circumstances.

A well educated population benefits everyone. A poorly educated population plagues us all

Platitudes aren't a cogent answer.

Yeah, but you gotta go with what you got when you don't have any facts to support your argument

You need facts to support the statements that a well educated population is good and a poorly educated population is bad?

lol, you are a CLASSIC rightwinger.

 

[Ravi]

The OP's question is stupid.

Government doesn't compel us to reproduce, therefore government has no say in whether we do or not.

Government compels us to educate children, therefore government is responsible for providing the education.

A real libertarian would be against compulsory education period.

 

[Oddball]

Most are against both compulsory education and gubmint schools.

 

[KissMy]

They're definitely not pro choice, when it comes to the legal behavior that bar and restaurant patrons may or may not engage in.

Want a trans fat burger? NO!!
Want salt on your fries? NO!!
Want a toy with your happy meal? NO!!
Want a non-diet soda? NO!
Want a school voucher? NO!
Want a legally purchased cigarette? NO!
Wanna kill your unborn child? OH YES!!!!!

Want to legalize guns? NO!!
Want to allow oil drilling? NO!!
Want to allow nuclear power? NO!!
Want to allow hunting? NO!!
Want to allow freedom of speech? NO!!
Want to allow eating of meat? NO!!
Want to allow not paying for government insurance? NO!!
Want to allow wearing leather of furs? NO!!
Want to legalize Pot? YES!!!!
Want to be homosexuals YES!!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most are against both compulsory education and gubmint schools.

Seriously?

Most Americans don't think education should be compulsory?

Most Americans don't think there should be a public school system?

 

[Greenbeard]

Your reluctance to students to go to the school or their choice is mind-boggling. All you have to say is "MY TAX DOLLARS WILL NOT PAY FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS!" You don't understand why public schools are in bad shape today, but you sure as heck don't want anyone to have a choice.

The notion of "choice" is getting muddled here. At present, abortion is a choice that's available to a woman. However, a publicly subsidized abortion is not available to a woman, even if she's a taxpayer. The choice, however, to spend her own money on an abortion is there.

If you want to make some analogy to education (which is think is a bit silly, but whatever), the equivalent choice--buying a private education from an institution of one's choice--is available. Lots of families do in fact make that choice. The premise of this thread is that if this choice isn't publicly subsidized then that choice in fact doesn't exist. As a philosophical matter, that's simply wrong and thus the premise of this thread is incorrect. Democrats, I believe, by and large don't support outlawing abortion nor do they support outlawing private schools. And the existence of a choice doesn't hinge on whether that choice is supported by the taxpayers' money.

Now as a practical matter it may be true that the choice that's legally permissible isn't available to lower income folks without public subsidy. That's true for any number of things. But are you sure you want to go down the road of suggesting that true "choice" for lower income people requires public subsidy (sometimes called "wealth redistribution")? You might get labeled a socialist by some of your ideological brethren.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have the right to choose what school your children go to.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

our public school education was pretty darn good 50 years ago, and great 40 years ago as well and pretty darn good overall 30 years ago too...i think the past 20 years it's been heading south in SOME regions, but not ALL....

Test scores in the US have essentially flat-lined since the 50s, while spending has increased steadily. We had "good" schools 50 years ago because the other countries scored lower than us. Since then we have stood still, and they have surpassed us.

THIS IS a STATE issue and NOT one that should be in Federal hands....you shouldn't get to decide on my schools and i shouldn't get to decide on taking money out of your local schools....the whole thing is a federal over reach....

Funny thing, the problems with schools started about the same time the DoE started passing out money. Maybe we should get the DoE out of education.

it is you that needs to fix your own schools, and it is you that needs to take a vote in your own town or State, on vouchers, and stripping your public schools of this money for your own town schools....the federal gvt should not be doing this....you and your fellow townsmen, may think vouchers is your answer, other towns may find that something else is better for them....

How, exactly, do you think that is going to work when most of the money for schools comes form the feds?

oh, and monopolies are ALWAYS winners in the business world , not losers, if allowed to be.....our schools are not even close to that....our towns, do compete with each other...at least up here in new england....i chose the town i lived in massachusetts, specifically for the schools....not because we have been blessed with children, but because the value of our home would stay higher or go even higher...the town over and 2 towns over had nice homes that we could have bought, but we chose the home in the town with the best schools...purely for investment reasons.... towns have good financial reason to make their school system a ''good one''....just by the extra property tax money they will get with their new home owners...

Monopolies are never winners. If you doubt that just take a look at your local cable company. Competition makes businesses stronger, a lack of competition makes them complacent, and that means everyone looses, including the business with the monopoly.

my sis is a teacher, and an excellent one, and her school is always competing with their nearby, public schools....they can even go on the internet when their scores come out, to compare how they did....

Good for them, but that is like one KFC competing with another for the most customers, it doesn't mean anything. How does her school compete on test scores, graduation rates, and college placement at prestigious universities with the local, private schools that have less money to spend per student, lower paid teachers, and no bureaucracy?

But maybe not all school teachers in all schools do the same...i dunno? It seems like they would....it's fun to compete....and pushes capabilities.

Or maybe they don't.

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/politics/teachers-rally-in-opposition-of-reform

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Currently, that is probably true, but that is not what school choice advocates are arguing for. The major idea is to let the parents and children spend the money that would normally be given to a failing monopoly and let them choose where to spend it.

The money is being wasted in the public schools, something almost everyone admits.

Also, if we started issuing vouchers to every student it would probably result in a tax cut for all property owners in the country.

So instead of having public schools, we would close them all down.
1.No more busing. Individual parents deliver & pick up their kids. Enter the shorter work week, and explosion in gas consumption.
2.No more school lunches. Kids go without lunches.
3.No more sports. Kids stay home & play Nintendo.
4.No school library. City libraries are overrun causing taxes to increase.
5.Special, problem, or poor children are left out. Private schools take the cream of the crop, and the rest can stay home, not their problem.
6.Vouchers start up a whole new government program. Private schools protected, inspected, regulated, licensed, mandatory insurances, law firms for suits, educational standards, testing, etc. You just shifted the business end of public education to private over site.
7.Teachers go to work for private schools, organize Unions and things are back to normal again. Or they can strike & picket a school into submission, lost school days, violence across America, etc.

Just a few ideas of what you are up against here, and the futility of vouchers in America. I can just hear the Parents Howl.

Are you making some type of debating point, or are you just babbling?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Most Americans don't think education should be compulsory?

I don't know, but the fact it is compulsory is part of the problem in my opinion.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

You have the right to choose what school your children go to.

Nope

 

[cawacko]

You have the right to choose what school your children go to.

Do you? In San Francisco you are allowed to list your top seven school choices for where you would like your child to go but you have no guarantee you will get your first (or second, third etc.) choice.

 

[uscitizen]

In light of the huge education debate the past few weeks, I can't help but wonder:

Democrats are staunchly pro-abortion. "Freedom of choice" they say.

But they despise the thought of school vouchers (Because it would take money away from unions).

So I conclude....

Democrats are only pro-choice when it comes to killing a child, not educating one.

I have no problem with anyone getting a voucher for the amount of school taxes they pay in each year, but they have no right to anyone elses school tax money.
But their kids will not be alloowed back into public schools till the voucher expires.

 

[Charles_Main]

A much better question is how can one be Pro Abortion, but against the Death penalty for the most vicious Murders and such?

Seems to say you value the life of a killer, but not an innocent unborn Child.

I have never been able to wrap my head around that logic.

 

[Charles_Main]

You have the right to choose what school your children go to.

That is a straight up lie NY.

Unless you want to fork out the cash for a private school, while still being forced to pay taxes to fund Public Schools you have no choice at all.

You can not even choose which Public School your kid goes to for the most part. I know from Experience. We tried to get our son to be able to go to a school we like(Public) but were told he has to go to another one and we had no choice at all.

Maybe it is different where you live, or maybe you are just full of shit

 

[Polk]

Most are against both compulsory education and gubmint schools.

I'd love to see you support that claim.

 

[Polk]

our public school education was pretty darn good 50 years ago, and great 40 years ago as well and pretty darn good overall 30 years ago too...i think the past 20 years it's been heading south in SOME regions, but not ALL....

Test scores in the US have essentially flat-lined since the 50s, while spending has increased steadily. We had "good" schools 50 years ago because the other countries scored lower than us. Since then we have stood still, and they have surpassed us.

I'd be really interested in seeing how much of the spending increase is in special education.

 

[Polk]

A much better question is how can one be Pro Abortion, but against the Death penalty for the most vicious Murders and such?

Seems to say you value the life of a killer, but not an innocent unborn Child.

I have never been able to wrap my head around that logic.

I think that would depend on your rationale for why you're opposed to the death penalty. If someone opposed the death penalty on the grounds that it's too expensive and doesn't deter crime, there is no inconsistency between that view and being pro-choice.

 

[Ravi]

A much better question is how can one be Pro Abortion, but against the Death penalty for the most vicious Murders and such?

Seems to say you value the life of a killer, but not an innocent unborn Child.

I have never been able to wrap my head around that logic.

Government shouldn't have the power of life or death over anyone...you support the ultimate big brother.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most are against both compulsory education and gubmint schools.

I'd love to see you support that claim.

You need to heed Carb's rule #29 - anyone who uses the term 'gubmint' is begging not to be taken seriously.