Here We Go: Teacher Shortages 22-23

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

But you seem to think that new young grads are ENTITLED to do it the way you did. NONE of my friends’ children was able to afford their own place upon graduation, and NONE of my friends were either. (Actually, one was - but that was after law school.)

It is most common for young people just starting out to have to share. If some don‘t have to, great for them. But teachers shouldn’t feel ENTITLED to be paid enough to do so right out of the starting gate, when young adults getting jobs in corporate America (me), scientific organizations (my dad), and my sibling (also corporate) had to share.

Why do you think young teachers, who only work 10 months a year, deserve to live better than other college grads who work year-round?

Do those college grads work 60 hours a week and additional hours sometimes on weekends for that 10 month period, plus attend college at night to get their Master's degree? No? There is your answer!

 

[initforme]

They can take music lessons after school, like I did. It is more important to have a basic knowledge of history than know how to play the piano.

I’ve been hearing lately how poorly educated kids are who come out of government schools, so I put it to the test last week and asked a 20-year-old the following questions:

1) When was the Civil War?
2) Who was president during it?
3) When was World War 2.

Her answers were:

1) The 1700s
2) Jefferson
3) 1912

Public schools are graduating total ignoramuses.

History should be covered but not nearly to the extent reading and math are. Rote memorization of dates and such are a waste of time. History doesnt teach skills needed to earn over 6 figures. Your vision is vastly outdated.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It takes decades of work for most college grads to cross the $100k mark as well - as those people work the entire year. Looking at the chart, it looks like many are in the 90s after 20 years, and that means people in the early 40s are closing in on $100k.

Really? My nephew is an engineer who started above 6 figures. he is getting married to his college girlfriend who is also an engineer that started above 6 figures. They are in their early twenties.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

….also, a teacher can always teach summer school, adding another several thousand dollars to the yearly salary.

What summer school? They pay one teacher to watch kids take on-line classes.

 

[initforme]

Really? My nephew is an engineer who started above 6 figures. he is getting married to his college girlfriend who is also an engineer that started above 6 figures. They are in their early twenties.

I have 2 sons. They were well over six figures within 5 years of working. Starting out at 37k doesn't have to happen.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They can work a different job then. My point is it isn’t correct to compare the salary of someone working the entire year with someone working only 10 months (in addition to the winter and spring week-long breaks).

There is a big misconception that teachers, of all college-educated professionals, are the most underpaid. I remember decades ago being at a Democrat fundraiser (I switched parties so no longer go to them) when one of the attendees was telling me how awful it was to expect teachers to live on $70,000 a year, which was near the top back then. My salary was $65,000 at the time, and I was quite comfortable with my income, but I didn’t want to disclose my income to him.

Nice anecdotal evidence that is probably a lie told to you.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I have 2 sons. They were well over six figures within 5 years of working. Starting out at 37k doesn't have to happen.

Thank you for agreeing with me, Methuselah! I am sure that was just a slip up!

 

[initforme]

My granddaughter just turned 27. She is into six figures in her pharmacy career. Her husband is making almost that and he is 28. They are not going to have kids and just bought a new house.

 

[Woodznutz]

What does that have to do with teachers? Not a GD thing, SFB!

Apparently they weren't taught well enough about these things.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This is a laughably horrible idea.

B-Students Jealous of A-Students

You don't want anyone rewarded for his intelligence.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Again I don't disagree.

If I were Emperor I'd change the total education system away from the current agrarian. I would:

• Open schools on a year round basis,
• Teachers would become 12-month employees (with 2 additional months, pay would increase by about 20%),
• 12-month Teachers would accrue "vacation" time just like other 12-month employees.
• There would be 3 semesters per year, teachers work full time, students get a short 1-week break between semesters:
  • 2 Primary
  • 1 Secondary
  • 1/3 each of teachers and students would be assigned to "cohorts" split between the 3 semesters for rotation and balancing purposes.
• Core classes will be conducted during the primary semesters, elective and remedial instruction would occur during the secondary semester.
• Teachers would be responsible for scheduling vacation time just like other 12 month employees.
• During the secondary semesters teachers would:
  • Provide remedial instruction to students under performing in core subjects,
  • Attend professional development,
  • Update curriculum,
  • Or schedule vacation time from the amount they have accrued.

Just MHO of course. Never going to happen.

WW

There was something similar that was tried in my district in Florida. It failed because the parents rebelled.

Teacher burnout would destroy those who chose to stay. I would not have.

 

[Woodznutz]

Exactly. Try doing a $60,000 job for $42,000 like I did as a school administrator.

I was also underpaid for many years, but it has all worked out.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

With all due respect, Sue...if teachers provide people's kids with a great education then it's my belief that they WILL support and respect them! People are upset at teachers because during Covid the teacher's Unions didn't seem to care about the kids. People are upset because too many teachers are teaching what is "moral"...something that belongs in the hands of parents.

I graduated with a degree in History and taught for 3 years before getting out of the profession. I did so because I didn't like the direction my administration was taking our school and that was forty years ago. I can't even imagine what it would be like to teach under "woke" rules!

You left out the words "a few of".

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It would appear you don't have much in the way of respect for the people that you demand respect from, Sue. That's problematic. Teachers have a job to do. Teaching morality however is the job of parents. Are there parents that are going to fail miserably at that? Heck, yeah! There are parents that shouldn't be allowed to own a pet let alone have a child! That doesn't give Education the right to teach kids things in class that their parents would never tell them at home. Sorry but that's crossing a very big line.

Well, except that doesn't happen in a vast majority of schools.

 

[Seymour Flops]

The solution is paraeducators.

Funny you say that. I'm a special education teacher and department chair and I work with paraeducators, also known as teacher's aides. It's a week and a half before school starts and I've been working a week already for this school year, having spent four weeks of the summer teaching summer school to kids who failed the previous year, and one week at an out of town training event.

So much for only working ten months out of the year.*

Two weeks ago, I was staffed up for paraeducators in my department. But our newcomer program was short two bilingual paras, so I lost a new hire that happens to speak Spanish. The district sped department gave us the applicant who was on the bottom of the pile since all the others had been hired. Her interview did not go well. Nice enough lady, but she now works at a day care as a "teacher" with her own classroom. It was obvious that she was not enthused to work with junior high aged kids, nor to be the helper in multiple classrooms instead of running her own.

We'll have to hire her though, if she'll accept the job. The reason that we have a hard time finding paraprofessionals is that they are paid so low, even considering all the time off they get. We get some amazing people for the money we pay, and they do a lot of good. But if we want more of them to help with the surge of migrants, for example, we have to be ready to pay more.

*I know that the image of a teacher is short hours and long vacations. Technically, a teacher is only required to be at school (in my district) 7:35 to 3:35 with a half hour duty-free lunch. But there is no way to do the job of a teacher in seven and a half hours. Not if you care about actually teaching the kids, which 95% strong do care. We end the year three or four days after the kids do and start the next year one to three weeks before the kids show up. We all take trainings in the summer, and those without rich husbands work summer school.

Biggest reason young teachers quit after the first year is that they realize that "the whole summer off" and "short work days" are myths.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You left out the words "a few of".

Are there more than two? Just asking, I've only heard of NEA and AFT.

 

[Woodznutz]

Thanks for destroying your own argument. You really are stupid!

You've painted a pretty grim picture of teaching in 2022. Back in the day there was needed respite from it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

In several townships near us, the many teachers and school administrators behave like condescending corporate executives. They dodge questions about your kid's education. They greet the kids NOT the parents in the morning. They behave like the parents aren't even there and almost slam the door in their faces once the kids are inside. The unions stick up even for the worst teachers in the system who couldn't care less about actually teaching, they just go through the motions. And then there was the way they all played the pandemic in their favor. And the way tablets and Android apps are employed where the kids almost spend more time with those things than actually hear teachers teaching. And the constant way the apps are always malfunctioning making it impossible for kids to finish their homework or study for tests at times. It's largely the teachers unions, most of which are joined at the hip with the Democratic Party, which are passive-aggressively forcing this new status quo into our schools, one by one. Some communities have resisted this Nazification of our schools, with Common Core at the core of it all. Common Core, the cookie-cutter one-size fits all approach which enables it so teachers have to do less and less to actually teach kids. The kids go to school and they are handed tablets and told to follow the apps instructions while the teacher sits at their desk reading emails.

My son only has 4 years left, but it's very temping to move away to find one of the last holdout schools which still does things the "old way".

You obviously don't understand Common Core, like 99% of public school parents in America.\ athat are not educators.

 

[Seymour Flops]

There was something similar that was tried in my district in Florida. It failed because the parents rebelled.

Teacher burnout would destroy those who chose to stay. I would not have.

Yes, indeed. It's hard to explain and non-teachers will never understand it. I didn't before I became a teacher.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Are there more than two? Just asking, I've only heard of NEA and AFT.

Those are NATIONAL organizations that don't represent a single teacher. I have been an AFT member plus about 3 or 4 others you did not list. There are hundreds nation wide.