Zone1 Have we lost The Bible Story?

[BreezeWood]

The author describes the mind of God which is beyond human understanding ...

- only for human sinners.

 

[ding]

- only for human sinners.

It sounds like you THINK you know the mind of God. So please tell us why God allows suffering to exist. Or shut the hell up.

 

[Donald H]

Note the format of the story. The author describes the mind of God which is beyond human understanding, so we are reading what conclusions mankind made about the cause of the flood. Take any great disaster. Human beings have this habit of looking back on what they had been doing and what they could have been doing better.

There are many things that are beyond human understanding, besides the purpose of the flood. Let's just keep in mind that it wasn't worldwide flood, on which we have agreed. I place no credence in Christianity's guesses at the purpose. We're not even attempting that so far, or at least I haven't.

This was not a current day by day account of an event as it happened. It was a description looking back over the event once it was past.

Alright.

Look at the numbers the author used. Seven is often used to denote completeness; it is a number associated with God. Forty is often used to signify change, renewal, new beginnings. The height of the three decks were the same height as the three levels of the temple. In architecture, this symbolized the underworld, the earth, the heavens.

How can we move on to guessing the deck heights when we've already concluded that the story isn't literally true, and isn't meant to be true? But never mind that, let's get to the lessons?

Based on the story, people weren't throwing up their hands wailing about God killing babies. People weren't arguing whether the flood was local or planet-wide. The story presents a picture of reassurance.

If we're on about a literally true story, people throwing up their hands or objecting to baby killing, has nothing to do with a flood they wouldn't be aware of coming. What point are you trying to make on that? Reassurance? How so?

The past was complete and God was in charge. God's ark was there for the salvation of the underworld, the earth, and the heavens.

Is that to mean life on earth? Not just the local area that you visualize as being affected?

The flood was a time of renewal and for new beginnings. Those who had died in the flood (the underworld) were safe. Those who had survived the flood (but had little) were safe. And the heavens were also safe.

Life in the relatively small area covered by the flood were dead. Would you like to entertain the idea that aquatic creatures survived and then evolved into terrestrial life forms? I'm not suggesting that but i am open to accepting the principle.

Back then, words were seen to have power, and this power was being misused, leading mankind into disaster.

It's equally likely that has always been true.

There was one man who listened to God, but did not speak...not until after the flood. And the most righteous of men also brought with him the brokenness of mankind. When Noah finally speaks, it is a curse which causes division on earth....And so we begin again. The themes of the story:

1. Salvation for all (those in the underworld, those on earth, those in heaven)

Salvation being death?

2. New beginnings

No doubt for the small area in question. Which btw, you have not determined for us yet.

3. Words have power so take care

??

We can't get any of this from the King James English. We need to study the Hebrew and what Jewish Rabbis have to say about the account. We certainly can't ascertain the meaning of this story by studying modern science and listening to what scientists are saying about the possibility (or impossibility) of a planet-wide flood.

I disagree. If there is a story then eventually science can learn it and understand it. It won't happen by I.D. trying to foist pseudo-science on the real thing.

About all I'm getting out of all your words is that the lessons are, 1. salvation, and 2. new beginnings.

Respectfully, those aren't lessons in my opinion.

Except possibly, lessons to the rest of mankind and animals that watched the flood from the shore.

What else can I say Meri? Have I missed an important point? I can only be honest, but that's conditional on me staying faithful to excluding demands to not introduce answers in science. Even though I see potential in your explanation being a local flood.

Obviously we haven't cleared the first hurdle of accepting whether or not we're discussing a flood that covered the entire earth, or a local flood?

 

[Donald H]

It sounds like you THINK you know the mind of God. So please tell us why God allows suffering to exist. Or shut the hell up.

The imaginary god has nothing to do with suffering.

Understand and believe that and the question on suffering for practically all lifeforms is readily understood. Probably 'all' lifeforms!

We can call it 'life's condition, as opposed to the 'human condition'.

 

[ding]

The imaginary god has nothing to do with suffering.

Understand and believe that and the question on suffering for practically all lifeforms is readily understood. Probably 'all' lifeforms!

We can call it 'life's condition, as opposed to the 'human condition'.

I agree, but your kind likes to make the argument that God does allow suffering. But my question was directed at that religious fake Breezewood for the express purpose of exposing HIS fakeness. I've already exposed your subversiveness so aren't really interested in what you have to say about it.

 

[Donald H]

I believe in the story in the same way I believe that the story of Pinocchio conveys many truths.


Yes I agree with Meri on that point.

I didn't believe the story was literally true when I was 8 years old. I had known all about figurative language used in fairy tales and how to understand them for more than half of my life by then.

But now you do! Only one question then: Was it giraffe heads sticking out of the roof or was it Brontosaurus'?

LOL....The "don't be an asshole" comment was the answer to your question about what the story was teaching children, dinkelberry.

Meri says the lesson was 'salvation. I'm pretty sure the lesson is 'death' if you fk around and don't believe.

 

[Donald H]

So they used figurative language and hyperbole when they wrote that the waters covered the mountains, a metaphor for the big shots and wealthy elite who loomed over the human landscapes like immovable mountains, just like when Ezekiel was told to prophecy to "the mountains of Israel" about their future destruction which was not about a geological formation.

Money power and fame couldn't save them from being swept clean away by the rising waters.

The more possible explanations are dreamed up, the fuller the discussion becomes!

We'll add in your version too on the mountains not being covered!

That lends itself to Meri's 'local' flood explanation for the lesson learned. Men, women, and animals stood on the shore and watched sh-t happen!

 

[Donald H]

Don't be an asshole.


can you accept what a hurricane or a tsunami can do? Multiply that by 1,000,000,000.

There are over 200 flood 'myths' from every continent around the world told by people who knew the difference between a regional or seasonal flood from a catastrophic extinction level event.

The crater is there and dated to that time period. Try to use your imagination in a rational way.

Who would have ever imagined that this topic would bring you out as a young earther? And 5000 years is 'record setting' young!

 

[Donald H]

Yes.

1. Justice
2. Grace of Salvation - A New Beginning

#1 is akin to Jimmy Jones's lesson after they drank the Kool-aid.

And #2 has nobody left standing to be salved. *

*depending on the size of the flood.

 

[ding]

#1 is akin to Jimmy Jones's lesson after they drank the Kool-aid.

And #2 has nobody left standing to be salved. *

*depending on the size of the flood.

Jimmy Jones was not only an atheist but a socialist to boot. But that's sort of redundant.

 

[Donald H]

Jimmy Jones was not only an atheist but a socialist to boot. But that's sort of redundant.

Jimmy didn't lose track of the fact that there could only be a 'lesson' if he kept the *flood contained to his property....

*Kool-aid

While the god attempted a whopper that doesn't fly even with his most devoted.

The lesson: Dry land is close by! And believe in this boat even though it's listed dangerously under the load of **dinosaur manure!

**bullsh-t

 

[ding]

Jimmy didn't lose track of the fact that there could only be a 'lesson' if he kept the *flood contained to his property....

*Kool-aid

While the god attempted a whopper that doesn't fly even with his most devoted.

The lesson: Dry land is close by! And believe in this boat even though it's listed dangerously under the load of **dinosaur manure!

**bullsh-t

Actually Jimmy wasn't that much of a deep thinker. Remember he was an atheist and a socialist.

 

[Donald H]

Actually Jimmy wasn't that much of a deep thinker. Remember he was an atheist and a socialist.

Meri is all about confidence and so all I can add for her is that she shouldn't think she isn't beautiful. I've seen more beauty in her than any other member of this forum! It doesn't depend on one's beliefs.

You are insecure with your beliefs and so your behaviour is as expected.

 

[ding]

Meri is all about confidence and so all I can add for her is that she shouldn't think she isn't beautiful. I've seen more beauty in her than any other member of this forum! It doesn't depend on one's beliefs.

You are insecure with your beliefs and so your behaviour is as expected.

I agree. She is extremely patient with you. If you want to see my responses to your insincerity as insecurity instead of opposition to your subversion, go right ahead.

 

[Donald H]

I agree. She is extremely patient with you.

I will claim more patience with me than others.

If you want to see my responses to your insincerity as insecurity instead of opposition to your subversion, go right ahead.

I can hold your attention and so am able to provide you more of the subversion you keep asking for. Did any of you Christians ever believe I was seriously considering the Ark story or the big fish story to be real??

Of course they're not and I don't know of one Christian on this board that still holds to their beliefs. For you and some others I've accomplished in a year, that which is going to take generations for others.

Meri and I am still working toward an understanding that works for both of us.

 

[Meriweather]

There are many things that are beyond human understanding, besides the purpose of the flood. Let's just keep in mind that it wasn't worldwide flood, on which we have agreed. I place no credence in Christianity's guesses at the purpose. We're not even attempting that so far, or at least I haven't.

While the flood wasn't planet-wide, it stands it was still a great flood--destructive and it cost lives.

 

[Meriweather]

How can we move on to guessing the deck heights when we've already concluded that the story isn't literally true, and isn't meant to be true? But never mind that, let's get to the lessons?

What do the thirteen stripes on the American flag represent? What do the fifty stars represent? Any American will tell you the stripes represent the original thirteen colonies; the fifty stars represent the fifty American states.

In the same way, when three decks and their heights are mentioned, people of the time would tell you these three decks symbolize the underworld, the earth, and the heavens, all ruled by God.

 

[Donald H]

While the flood wasn't planet-wide,

So let's settle on that now!

it stands it was still a great flood--destructive and it cost lives.

Yes, nearly all floods of the proportions we can assume, cost lives.

Can you suggest an approximate date? Can you suggest proportions, in respect to geography of the time making the flood possible? The Nile? The Tigris-Euphrates?

Either may serve to inform us on the proportions.

Then we can move on to a discussion on all the other questions that arise on it being literally a real flood, or, a parable.

I'm still willing to stick to your rule of no science applies. Even though I'm having difficulty separating science from what we would consider..................... reality?

 

[Meriweather]

If we're on about a literally true story, people throwing up their hands or objecting to baby killing, has nothing to do with a flood they wouldn't be aware of coming. What point are you trying to make on that? Reassurance? How so?

Thousands of fictional short-stories, novels, television shows, etc. use the Civil War as a setting. Everyone picking up that book or watching a show/movie knows how that war ends. In the same way, after the flood and the stories began being told, people were well aware of basic truths surrounding the flood.

 

[Meriweather]

Is that to mean life on earth? Not just the local area that you visualize as being affected?

It calls to mind that God is mindful of all life--life in the underworld, on earth, and in the heavens.