Great Speech.

[Sallow]

I hope it comes at the beginning of the week as I really want to look it over and make my decision on what i support and don't support in the actual execution of the bill.

I'm not sure how I was denigrating him with my response? I just gave an honest, opinion based, assesment of the speech.
What was denigrating about what I said? Yeah my review wasn't positive but I wasn't calling obama names or anything.

You made the distinction between "Political" and "Solutions", casting Political as a negative. I think it was both. A Political speech and a Solutions speech.

Personally, I like when a person likes their job. They do it better. Because they are doing something they enjoy. I don't like it when a politician casts government as evil or politicians as "self serving". Those people really should find another line of work.

Well in the context of a joint session of congress he should have had a specific plan laid out instead of more rhetoric. That is what my comments were based on.

I have no more of an idea today as to what Obama's actual plan is then I did yesterday morning when I woke up. He didn't tell me anything new in the speech, it was more of the same stuff we have been hearing for years (from both sides).

I was just hoping he would say "I'm going to make this tax this percent, i'm going to get the reneue by increasing this specific tax and cutting this specific program, these are the numbers from doing so and the full plan will be available at whitehouse.gov for the american people to read over themselves"

All I got was "agree with me or you dont want to create jobs and you want to fire teachers" ok ok i oversimplified it but that was the general tone as I watched it.

This wasn't that type of speech..you are right.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLrrBs8JBQo]Braveheart In Defiance Of The English Tyranny! BRAVO - YouTube[/ame]

It was that type of speech.

It was saying we have a huge problem..and we have to come together to solve it.

 

[edjax1952]

I have seen a few Witty conservatives on here Sallow. Actually quite a few of them. which is nice to see, IMO.


Obama is a politician, of course he will set himself up to look good! Im not wanting to see that, I want to see some positive improvement for the middle class.

and sad to say it, once again, the main problem with this sluggish economy, the housing market. Is still not on the table. Maybe the GOP can take the lead here and help Obama, I doubt it.

They have tried, but he wont hear it. The policies that need to be put in place will hurt people "In the short term" but need to be done for the long term sustainability of our country. We cannot keep going on with all of these entitlement programs, especially giving it to people who never paid into them, it's not sustainable, we have to reel in this reckless spending, and it's simply not being done, as is proof of the presidents request to spend another half trillion dollars.

I am waiting to hear more about the government money giveaway toward the housing industry. What I heard last night was vauge. What I gathered from the staements made was that there would be money available for home owners to repair or upgrade their house (suposedly to make it more attractive for the market). If there are no buyers, there is nothing you can do to a house to make it more attractive unless you sell it at a loss. The problem lies in the amount of money available to buy a house, not the condition of the house. Until people get stable and long term employment and are able to start buying houses it would be foolish for government to spend money on the house; it would not remedy the employment situation.

 

[Sallow]

That is a sad commentary Sallow. The economy sucks and all liberals can think about is re-electing a man who has nothing to offer to improve the situation. Basically, you are willing to let four more years go down the toilet just to have a Democrat as President.

No wonder we are in the fucking mess we are in... please forgive the language there... Republicans think the same way. That is why we can't get a decent candidate from either party.

Immie

Actually..it's not.

We have lunatics in the congress right now. And the distinction must be drawn.

This is nothing new.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RHnKYNvx8]FDR "Let Me Warn You" (1936).m4v - YouTube[/ame]

That's sort of what I was hoping for. Last night was a little better.

 

[Avorysuds]

You made the distinction between "Political" and "Solutions", casting Political as a negative. I think it was both. A Political speech and a Solutions speech.

Personally, I like when a person likes their job. They do it better. Because they are doing something they enjoy. I don't like it when a politician casts government as evil or politicians as "self serving". Those people really should find another line of work.

Well in the context of a joint session of congress he should have had a specific plan laid out instead of more rhetoric. That is what my comments were based on.

I have no more of an idea today as to what Obama's actual plan is then I did yesterday morning when I woke up. He didn't tell me anything new in the speech, it was more of the same stuff we have been hearing for years (from both sides).

I was just hoping he would say "I'm going to make this tax this percent, i'm going to get the reneue by increasing this specific tax and cutting this specific program, these are the numbers from doing so and the full plan will be available at whitehouse.gov for the american people to read over themselves"

All I got was "agree with me or you dont want to create jobs and you want to fire teachers" ok ok i oversimplified it but that was the general tone as I watched it.

This wasn't that type of speech..you are right.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLrrBs8JBQo]Braveheart In Defiance Of The English Tyranny! BRAVO - YouTube[/ame]

It was that type of speech.

It was saying we have a huge problem..and we have to come together to solve it.

Really, it was not that kind of speech.

Did you walk away feeling like "haha fuck you Republicans"? Because that's what Obama was counting on... Obama 2012: Haha, fuck you epublicans!

 

[nolebrakai]

We cannot keep going on with all of these entitlement programs, especially giving it to people who never paid into them, it's not sustainable, we have to reel in this reckless spending, and it's simply not being done, as is proof of the presidents request to spend another half trillion dollars.

look bucko, I just left Iraq and we have spent far more there and listen to you, like its the end of the world to help or own peoples. Shame on you man. You should have gone ape shit years ago, you did not so its sort of hard to not take you as political type. I just laugh at the people who want to point at the poor in this nation, well guess what dude im over here protecting their freedom, you should be doing the same and stop acting like a fool.


god belss America.

 

[boedicca]

I'd like one of the Barking Moonbats to explain this:

For months and months, we've been hearing that the original Stimulus failed because $800B was not enough to Stimulate The Economy.

Now Obama is proposing basically the same set of programs for about half the amount.

If $800B wasn't enough, how is $450B now going to make any difference?

 

[Avorysuds]

I have seen a few Witty conservatives on here Sallow. Actually quite a few of them. which is nice to see, IMO.


Obama is a politician, of course he will set himself up to look good! Im not wanting to see that, I want to see some positive improvement for the middle class.

and sad to say it, once again, the main problem with this sluggish economy, the housing market. Is still not on the table. Maybe the GOP can take the lead here and help Obama, I doubt it.

They have tried, but he wont hear it. The policies that need to be put in place will hurt people "In the short term" but need to be done for the long term sustainability of our country. We cannot keep going on with all of these entitlement programs, especially giving it to people who never paid into them, it's not sustainable, we have to reel in this reckless spending, and it's simply not being done, as is proof of the presidents request to spend another half trillion dollars.

I am waiting to hear more about the government money giveaway toward the housing industry. What I heard last night was vauge. What I gathered from the staements made was that there would be money available for home owners to repair or upgrade their house (suposedly to make it more attractive for the market). If there are no buyers, there is nothing you can do to a house to make it more attractive unless you sell it at a loss. The problem lies in the amount of money available to buy a house, not the condition of the house. Until people get stable and long term employment and are able to start buying houses it would be foolish for government to spend money on the house; it would not remedy the employment situation.

Obama is pulling an FDR. FDR and Obama believe that it's not that housing costs are to high, it's that they are to low... So they do program after program to keep some jobs, some houses and some parts of the economy out of reach of what the average American can afford, making the Recession or Depression deeper and last longer. It's just the way it works and hating a Republican won't change that reality.

 

[Avorysuds]

I'd like one of the Barking Moonbats to explain this:

For months and months, we've been hearing that the original Stimulus failed because $800B was not enough to Stimulate The Economy.

Now Obama is proposing basically the same set of programs for about half the amount.

If $800B wasn't enough, how is $450B now going to make any difference?

Because new Obama is smarter than old Obama and old Obama was smarter than reality. This stimulus will be spent even more wise than the last stimulus that saved the country for a Depression on accident because it was so wise.

 

[Immanuel]

That is a sad commentary Sallow. The economy sucks and all liberals can think about is re-electing a man who has nothing to offer to improve the situation. Basically, you are willing to let four more years go down the toilet just to have a Democrat as President.

No wonder we are in the fucking mess we are in... please forgive the language there... Republicans think the same way. That is why we can't get a decent candidate from either party.

Immie

Actually..it's not.

We have lunatics in the congress right now. And the distinction must be drawn.

This is nothing new.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RHnKYNvx8]FDR "Let Me Warn You" (1936).m4v - YouTube[/ame]

That's sort of what I was hoping for. Last night was a little better.

We have a President that has nothing up his sleeves, no rabbit in the hat, nothing at all to offer this country except that he ain't a Republican. So, by the "Keep Hope Alive" attitude of the left all you are doing is driving a dagger into the heart of America from behind.

He has nothing to offer us, but four more years of misery and what is worse is that during those four years he won't be campaigning so we will get even less out of him during those four years than we got out of him for the last three years.

Hope is dead.

Immie

 

[Conservative]

I'd like one of the Barking Moonbats to explain this:

For months and months, we've been hearing that the original Stimulus failed because $800B was not enough to Stimulate The Economy.

Now Obama is proposing basically the same set of programs for about half the amount.

If $800B wasn't enough, how is $450B now going to make any difference?

pearls before swine

 

[edjax1952]

We cannot keep going on with all of these entitlement programs, especially giving it to people who never paid into them, it's not sustainable, we have to reel in this reckless spending, and it's simply not being done, as is proof of the presidents request to spend another half trillion dollars.

look bucko, I just left Iraq and we have spent far more there and listen to you, like its the end of the world to help or own peoples. Shame on you man. You should have gone ape shit years ago, you did not so its sort of hard to not take you as political type. I just laugh at the people who want to point at the poor in this nation, well guess what dude im over here protecting their freedom, you should be doing the same and stop acting like a fool.


god belss America.

I respect your service to our nation and do not want to diminish that in any manner. I also served in the military during the Viet Nam era. I disagreed with what Washington was doing then, but realized that the structure and well being of the nation was more important than my own opinions. Therefore I signed up for service. I do not regret that decision, even though the purpose of our military was not in line with my personal beliefs. It was very sad to watch as we lined up soldiers to be slaughtered and would not go on the offensive.

Now we have a new delimna. Our country is broke. We cannot feed the many as we do not have the money. We cannot take care of the downtrodden as our purses are empty. If we continue on this track, we will fail at both helping our countrymen and fail at maintaining a country that has stood strong against oppression for decades.

If we continue to give the money we need to sustain ourselves to our less fortunate and do not create an environment that promotes employment and therefore taxable incom, we will not be able to sustain any other goals.

 

[Sallow]

We have a President that has nothing up his sleeves, no rabbit in the hat, nothing at all to offer this country except that he ain't a Republican. So, by the "Keep Hope Alive" attitude of the left all you are doing is driving a dagger into the heart of America from behind.

He has nothing to offer us, but four more years of misery and what is worse is that during those four years he won't be campaigning so we will get even less out of him during those four years than we got out of him for the last three years.

Hope is dead.

Immie

Quite surprising really. What we have is a congress populated with people who have forgotten what makes and has made America great. And it isn't obscenely wealthy people. What it is..is an innovative spirit that has captured the imagination of the entire world. What it is..is a country that brought down one of the worst dictatorships ever in history. It's a country that has put men on the moon. It is a country that helped nations like India, Thailand, Iran and many others recover from national disasters. It is a country that saved millions of lives in Africa through food relief and with drugs to battle the scourge of AIDS.

And now we have a visionary President beckoning us into the future and a congress with it's collective heads in the sand. They are telling us "we spend to much", something which didn't or doesn't seem to bother them much with a Republican at the helm. They are telling us that spending on old people, children, the sick and the poor is somehow not moral. They are telling us that fixing infrastructure is a wasted and failed effort. They are telling us that keeping cops on the beat, firefighters at the ready and teachers educating the next generation is a bad investment. They are telling us that tossing our tax dollars at the super rich is a grand idea.

Well sir. I am telling you that is wrong.

And I am hopeful we get back on the right track.

 

[edjax1952]

We have a President that has nothing up his sleeves, no rabbit in the hat, nothing at all to offer this country except that he ain't a Republican. So, by the "Keep Hope Alive" attitude of the left all you are doing is driving a dagger into the heart of America from behind.

He has nothing to offer us, but four more years of misery and what is worse is that during those four years he won't be campaigning so we will get even less out of him during those four years than we got out of him for the last three years.

Hope is dead.

Immie

Quite surprising really. What we have is a congress populated with people who have forgotten what makes and has made America great. And it isn't obscenely wealthy people. What it is..is an innovative spirit that has captured the imagination of the entire world. What it is..is a country that brought down one of the worst dictatorships ever in history. It's a country that has put men on the moon. It is a country that helped nations like India, Thailand, Iran and many others recover from national disasters. It is a country that saved millions of lives in Africa through food relief and with drugs to battle the scourge of AIDS.

And now we have a visionary President beckoning us into the future and a congress with it's collective heads in the sand. They are telling us "we spend to much", something which didn't or doesn't seem to bother them much with a Republican at the helm. They are telling us that spending on old people, children, the sick and the poor is somehow not moral. They are telling us that fixing infrastructure is a wasted and failed effort. They are telling us that keeping cops on the beat, firefighters at the ready and teachers educating the next generation is a bad investment. They are telling us that tossing our tax dollars at the super rich is a grand idea.

Well sir. I am telling you that is wrong.

And I am hopeful we get back on the right track.

Getting back on the right track is the desire of us all. How we do it seems to be the delimma. Any useful suggestions?

 

[Immanuel]

We have a President that has nothing up his sleeves, no rabbit in the hat, nothing at all to offer this country except that he ain't a Republican. So, by the "Keep Hope Alive" attitude of the left all you are doing is driving a dagger into the heart of America from behind.

He has nothing to offer us, but four more years of misery and what is worse is that during those four years he won't be campaigning so we will get even less out of him during those four years than we got out of him for the last three years.

Hope is dead.

Immie

Quite surprising really. What we have is a congress populated with people who have forgotten what makes and has made America great. And it isn't obscenely wealthy people. What it is..is an innovative spirit that has captured the imagination of the entire world. What it is..is a country that brought down one of the worst dictatorships ever in history. It's a country that has put men on the moon. It is a country that helped nations like India, Thailand, Iran and many others recover from national disasters. It is a country that saved millions of lives in Africa through food relief and with drugs to battle the scourge of AIDS.

And now we have a visionary President beckoning us into the future and a congress with it's collective heads in the sand. They are telling us "we spend to much", something which didn't or doesn't seem to bother them much with a Republican at the helm. They are telling us that spending on old people, children, the sick and the poor is somehow not moral. They are telling us that fixing infrastructure is a wasted and failed effort. They are telling us that keeping cops on the beat, firefighters at the ready and teachers educating the next generation is a bad investment. They are telling us that tossing our tax dollars at the super rich is a grand idea.

Well sir. I am telling you that is wrong.

And I am hopeful we get back on the right track.

Thanks, but you are wrong.

1) The President is absolutely no "visionary". He is a third rate failure.

2) Jobs are gone and this country cannot recover until those jobs come back.

3) I have no problem with spending on the sick, the homeless or keeping teachers at their blackboards or cops on the beat. Nor do I have any problems with raising taxes on the rich.

4) I do have a problem with politicians in Washington, including the President who favor political allies over countrymen who are desperate for jobs.

5) I have a problem with a President who promoted a health care bill and stimulus plan that destroyed the economy and who now wants to throw more money in the same direction. A President who offers nothing; yet wants us to give him four more years so that he can complete the destruction of this country.

You say it isn't the obscenely wealthy, but rather an innovative spirit. Well, that innovative spirit was killed by the politicians in Washington and not just Republicans. President Obama is as guilty of killing that spirit as anyone else except for maybe Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.

We're dying here and all liberals can think about is keeping a third rate failure in office so that they can say, "we won, you lost, STFU". Screw the damned liberals: America needs a winner NOW, not some community organizer that can't organize a community of 535 people and would rather see this country go to Hell in a hand basket rather than admit that he screwed up and flushed employment down the crapper.

Immie

 

[DontBeStupid]

2) Jobs are gone and this country cannot recover until those jobs come back.

Or new ones are created. Ones that can't leave the country.

5) I have a problem with a President who promoted a health care bill and stimulus plan that destroyed the economy

This is getting old. If you guys can't show how Obama's plans "destroyed" the economy, then quit whining about it.

 

[DontBeStupid]

If $800B wasn't enough, how is $450B now going to make any difference?

Simple. $450B > $0.

You're welcome

 

[Immanuel]

2) Jobs are gone and this country cannot recover until those jobs come back.

Or new ones are created. Ones that can't leave the country.

5) I have a problem with a President who promoted a health care bill and stimulus plan that destroyed the economy

This is getting old. If you guys can't show how Obama's plans "destroyed" the economy, then quit whining about it.

It has been shown dozens of times in other threads. If you can't or won't read, please don't blame me.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Let's just put it this way DBS, employers are not going to hire new employees if they foresee the cost of maintaining employees is going to double or even triple in 2014. They simply are not going to hire anyone they don't absolutely have to.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

And forgive me for the attitude, DBS and Sallow, someone definitely pissed in my Corn Flakes this morning. I'm pissed at the entire world.

Immie

 

[Sallow]

Getting back on the right track is the desire of us all. How we do it seems to be the delimma. Any useful suggestions?

Aside from what the President proposed?

I'll bite:
-Get out of Afghanistan and Iraq. We've killed enough people. I think they got the memo.
-Stop the ridiculous war on drugs. Legalize Marijuana. Would be a great revenue stream.
-Encourage "work sharing" instead of layoffs.
-Ramp up the space program. Heck we have a lot of out of work techies. What better way to use them then to put up a moon station.
-Build nuclear plants and get up to speed on our energy grid to incorporate new forms of energy.
-Introduce tariffs to Chinese imports. They wanna play currency games? Fuck em.
-Encourage banks to restructure mortgages. They are under investigation right now. We could call it an "out of court" settlement. Probably a lot cheaper way to go on both sides.
-Freeze government worker salaries for a couple of years. The trade off would be no layoffs.

That's a quick and dirty.