god slimes people's lungs

[Hollie]

Whispering sounds can be the way to many wide paths to explore.

Whispering sounds may indeed open up the way to many new and unexplored perspectives. These, of course, are much different from wide, well traveled paths. Taking the road less traveled often makes a great difference (as noted in the famous post by Robert Frost).

The road less traveled, less busy can provide for introspection and contemplation. That can evoke a complex array of feelings and emotions, many good, some troublesome; and even as we individually explore many paths, we are part of a functioning whole that is existence.

Religions offer a seductive form of contract: behaviors in exchange for rewards where the reward can be “eternal life”. I don't fear my mortality; in fact, I respect it-- it is a keen motivator. I have a finite time to accomplish things that will make me personally happy and maybe better those around me.. I need to be promised a reward in order to do these things? I find that self-centered and weakens the act of kindness. I do things that are a benefit to me and others because to do them is good, not to earn a reward.

 

[Meriweather]

just like god does not exist

We could say that, to us, nothing exists until we meet up with it. It never occurred to me to believe in the existence of my best friend until we actually met. After that, I could not disbelieve her existence.

People do meet up with God, Harmonica, and once this happens we cannot disbelieve. Even more blessed are people who do not see, yet believe because they love God's Law and His Ways. There is more than one way to come to belief.

 

[Meriweather]

Religions offer a seductive form of contract: behaviors in exchange for rewards where the reward can be “eternal life”. I don't fear my mortality; in fact, I respect it-- it is a keen motivator. I have a finite time to accomplish things that will make me personally happy and maybe better those around me.. I need to be promised a reward in order to do these things? I find that self-centered and weakens the act of kindness. I do things that are a benefit to me and others because to do them is good, not to earn a reward.

The mistake you make here is believing that people of faith think it is all about the next life. It is not. Jews, especially, are adamant that God's Laws and Way is for this life. Christianity, perhaps especially Catholicism, also hold this belief. Think of our faith, our belief, as a map that alerts one to where the quicksand is, or where a bridge over a raging river is to be found in this life.

In other words, it is not about a promised reward, it is about being assisted right here and right now. While you may not believe that you also consist of a spirit that lives on after a physical existence here, people of faith believe what we treasure here, will be our treasure there. (Except the physical does not exist there, which is why we concentrate on the spiritual nature of our being over gathering up gold and diamonds.)

Do we sneer at people who work for a paycheck? Of course not! The worker is worth his hire. In the same way, hopefully none of us sneer at women who stay at home caring for home and children without a paycheck.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Incorrect. Logic is not man-made and it is not subjective.

Yes, it is, indeed, man made. It is not "subjective" insomuch as we have made it self consistent.

"If dogs are lizards, then the moon is made of cheese."

That is a true statement. Why? To keep the rules of logic self consistent.

 

[ding]

Incorrect. Logic is not man-made and it is not subjective.

Yes, it is, indeed, man made. It is not "subjective" insomuch as we have made it self consistent.

"If dogs are lizards, then the moon is made of cheese."

That is a true statement. Why? To keep the rules of logic self consistent.

The rules of logic predicate that garbage in equals garbage out.

 

[Hollie]

Religions offer a seductive form of contract: behaviors in exchange for rewards where the reward can be “eternal life”. I don't fear my mortality; in fact, I respect it-- it is a keen motivator. I have a finite time to accomplish things that will make me personally happy and maybe better those around me.. I need to be promised a reward in order to do these things? I find that self-centered and weakens the act of kindness. I do things that are a benefit to me and others because to do them is good, not to earn a reward.

The mistake you make here is believing that people of faith think it is all about the next life. It is not. Jews, especially, are adamant that God's Laws and Way is for this life. Christianity, perhaps especially Catholicism, also hold this belief. Think of our faith, our belief, as a map that alerts one to where the quicksand is, or where a bridge over a raging river is to be found in this life.

In other words, it is not about a promised reward, it is about being assisted right here and right now. While you may not believe that you also consist of a spirit that lives on after a physical existence here, people of faith believe what we treasure here, will be our treasure there. (Except the physical does not exist there, which is why we concentrate on the spiritual nature of our being over gathering up gold and diamonds.)

Do we sneer at people who work for a paycheck? Of course not! The worker is worth his hire. In the same way, hopefully none of us sneer at women who stay at home caring for home and children without a paycheck.

You highlighted a distinct difference between Judaism and the competing faith of Christianity. I agree that Judaism is much more a “here and now” faith as opposed to Christianity. I’m sure you have read the posts of the more excitable Christians who are adamant that their every waking moment is concerned with getting that reward in heaven. Meanwhile, the underlying message remains:

Believe this, or be eternally, forever, always and from now until never – marshmallow in Hell.

 

[Meriweather]

Believe this, or be eternally, forever, always and from now until never – marshmallow in Hell.

From the Old Testament straight into the New Testament the overall message has been Love God and Love your fellow man. A wise man added, "Everything else is just commentary."

It is the commentary that is the fodder for arguments (or discussion, depending on how one looks at it).

 

[ding]

competing faith

I never realized it was a football game or a contest?

 

[ding]

I agree that Judaism is much more a “here and now” faith as opposed to Christianity.

I have yet to attend a mass where hell or heaven were discussed. We just talking about how to live life so I have no idea where you are getting your information from.

 

[Hollie]

Believe this, or be eternally, forever, always and from now until never – marshmallow in Hell.

From the Old Testament straight into the New Testament the overall message has been Love God and Love your fellow man. A wise man added, "Everything else is just commentary."

It is the commentary that is the fodder for arguments (or discussion, depending on how one looks at it).

I think you’re missing the “fear god”, admonitions in the OT. Those occur somewhat more than the apparently revised gods in the NT.

Fearing the gods had a direct impact on your health, per the bibles. God slaughters thousands and thousands by what the bible says, and he plans to slaughter billions more. Never has their been so evil a villain in all literature than Yahweh-- he kills relentlessly (Read the book of Joshua and try to imagine all those "rotten apple" kids and women-- all except those virgins, who were allowed to be taken away and raped.

Look at the world around you and you will see the result of the belief in mystical gods. How many wars has religion was deeply a part of? I can make a list if your want to see it. You tell me where the intolerance is today-- is it in the rational world, like with scientists? Who hates gays the most -- even now when homosexuality is considered to be as "abnormal" as being left-handed? Who keeps claiming they are the ones with the Truth, and all others are wrong? Who keeps alive the myths of Hell, where people will burn in torment for eternity? The churches, the religious, believers. Something makes them believe in this way, and they all turn to their respective books and consider it truth, whereas all the other books are not.

 

[Meriweather]

I think you’re missing the “fear god”, admonitions

What I am not missing is the original meaning of the Hebrew word which is not the same as the definition those who speak modern English apply when they see the word 'fear'. People in Biblical times would understand, "Be inspired, be awed..."

 

[Meriweather]

Fearing the gods had a direct impact on your health, per the bibles. God slaughters thousands and thousands by what the bible says, and he plans to slaughter billions more. Never has their been so evil a villain in all literature than Yahweh-- he kills relentlessly (Read the book of Joshua and try to imagine all those "rotten apple" kids and women-- all except those virgins, who were allowed to be taken away and raped.

Look at the world around you and you will see the result of the belief in mystical gods. How many wars has religion was deeply a part of? I can make a list if your want to see it. You tell me where the intolerance is today-- is it in the rational world, like with scientists? Who hates gays the most -- even now when homosexuality is considered to be as "abnormal" as being left-handed? Who keeps claiming they are the ones with the Truth, and all others are wrong? Who keeps alive the myths of Hell, where people will burn in torment for eternity? The churches, the religious, believers. Something makes them believe in this way, and they all turn to their respective books and consider it truth, whereas all the other books are not.

The first paragraph exhibits a very modern reading/perspective of Biblical literature--and very different from what the original author intended or how the original audience viewed the story.

The second paragraph is a very good example of how religion can be twisted by those in power (or those who seek power). However, it is very much like arguing fire should not be permitted less it gets the hands of arsonists or the careless. We can also list how much damage has been caused by the misuse of fire. That religion can be misused so badly tells us just how powerful religion (like fire) is. It is how it is used that tells the story--and we can find as many beautiful and awesome stories as we can find where it has been misused.

 

[Hollie]

[

Fearing the gods had a direct impact on your health, per the bibles. God slaughters thousands and thousands by what the bible says, and he plans to slaughter billions more. Never has their been so evil a villain in all literature than Yahweh-- he kills relentlessly (Read the book of Joshua and try to imagine all those "rotten apple" kids and women-- all except those virgins, who were allowed to be taken away and raped.

Look at the world around you and you will see the result of the belief in mystical gods. How many wars has religion was deeply a part of? I can make a list if your want to see it. You tell me where the intolerance is today-- is it in the rational world, like with scientists? Who hates gays the most -- even now when homosexuality is considered to be as "abnormal" as being left-handed? Who keeps claiming they are the ones with the Truth, and all others are wrong? Who keeps alive the myths of Hell, where people will burn in torment for eternity? The churches, the religious, believers. Something makes them believe in this way, and they all turn to their respective books and consider it truth, whereas all the other books are not.

The first paragraph exhibits a very modern reading/perspective of Biblical literature--and very different from what the original author intended or how the original audience viewed the story.

The second paragraph is a very good example of how religion can be twisted by those in power (or those who seek power). However, it is very much like arguing fire should not be permitted less it gets the hands of arsonists or the careless. We can also list how much damage has been caused by the misuse of fire. That religion can be misused so badly tells us just how powerful religion (like fire) is. It is how it is used that tells the story--and we can find as many beautiful and awesome stories as we can find where it has been misused.

I certainly can’t speak to what the original authors intended as the authors of the Bibles are largely unknown and their stories were written many decades (or more), after the events.

Sure, fire can be misused but such an analogy above doesn’t fit. In terms of the religious tales, we’re talking about life defining, society altering, everlasting torment inducing ideologies that foment wars, conquest and killing. Let’s not diminish the religious underpinnings of the Crusades, Spanish Catholic conquest of South America, and atrocities too numerous to mention in the name of Christianity.

I’m not clear as to who is/was twisting Christianity. There’s a wide range of Christian ideology which has splintered into dozens of sects. It seems that a great many individual Christians hold the authoritative view of what they have convinced themselves to be the “true” Christianity and a great many of those Christians are at odds with one another.

Please identify the “true” Christianity and help everyone toward the “true” interpretation as intended by the gods.

 

[Meriweather]

Please identify the “true” Christianity and help everyone toward the “true” interpretation as intended by the gods.

I have already said this once today: True religion and true faith is love of God and love of one's fellowman. The rest is commentary.

 

[Meriweather]

I certainly can’t speak to what the original authors intended as the authors of the Bibles are largely unknown and their stories were written many decades (or more), after the events.

The study of languages, culture, and history can aide us in this. So can age old commentaries. Takes a lot of time and effort. Much more time and effort than a literal reading in modern English of good ol' King James.

 

[Meriweather]

Sure, fire can be misused but such an analogy above doesn’t fit. In terms of the religious tales, we’re talking about life defining, society altering, everlasting torment inducing ideologies that foment wars, conquest and killing. Let’s not diminish the religious underpinnings of the Crusades, Spanish Catholic conquest of South America, and atrocities too numerous to mention in the name of Christianity.

What foments war? Power, greed, territory, wealth. Religion is as susceptible to these as are Universities, Newspapers, Governments, etc.

 

[Hollie]

Please identify the “true” Christianity and help everyone toward the “true” interpretation as intended by the gods.

I have already said this once today: True religion and true faith is love of God and love of one's fellowman. The rest is commentary.

Now you’ve said it twice. I still have no reason to accept that you and you alone have the final absolute, authoritative word on religion.

Just curious, though. If true religion and true faith is love of God and love of one's fellowman, who decides on the final, authoritative gods? Why your gods and not someone else’s god.

If I love lord Shiva, the true god, will you convert?

 

[Meriweather]

Now you’ve said it twice. I still have no reason to accept that you and you alone have the final absolute, authoritative word on religion.

Just curious, though. If true religion and true faith is love of God and love of one's fellowman, who decides on the final, authoritative gods? Why your gods and not someone else’s god.

If I love lord Shiva, the true god, will you convert?

God is known by many names and many attributes. Father, Shiva, Allah are a few. God is love, and His love is for all--those who call Him Father, those who call Him Allah, and those who call Him Shiva. Once experiencing God's love, there is no need to convert. One has already been converted.

 

[Hollie]

Sure, fire can be misused but such an analogy above doesn’t fit. In terms of the religious tales, we’re talking about life defining, society altering, everlasting torment inducing ideologies that foment wars, conquest and killing. Let’s not diminish the religious underpinnings of the Crusades, Spanish Catholic conquest of South America, and atrocities too numerous to mention in the name of Christianity.

What foments war? Power, greed, territory, wealth. Religion is as susceptible to these as are Universities, Newspapers, Governments, etc.

Of course. And Power, greed, territory, wealth have been sought after prizes by the religions.

No religion claims itself secondary in comparison to its competition. That would dismantle the authority of every religion ("Well, we're sort of right," said the Dalai Lama, "But you know, maybe those Christians are really right." Uh, not likely.)

If you are a Moslem as opposed to a Christian, your very self-identification tells me that you are announcing islamism to be right, and Christianity to be wrong-- unless you are purposely following a doctrine you believe is wrong (I suppose some people might do that, but whatever for?).

 

[Hollie]

Now you’ve said it twice. I still have no reason to accept that you and you alone have the final absolute, authoritative word on religion.

Just curious, though. If true religion and true faith is love of God and love of one's fellowman, who decides on the final, authoritative gods? Why your gods and not someone else’s god.

If I love lord Shiva, the true god, will you convert?

God is known by many names and many attributes. Father, Shiva, Allah are a few. God is love, and His love is for all--those who call Him Father, those who call Him Allah, and those who call Him Shiva. Once experiencing God's love, there is no need to convert. One has already been converted.

Unless you are going to dismiss human history and their inventions of gods, I find it difficult to believe that any Hindu will accept your comment. There is a entire family tree of Hindu gods. A singular "god" is not going to be accepted by a Hindu.

There are some 14,000 asserted gods. There are many more self-entitled "prophets" and more "signs" than anyone can count. We must... all of us... eventually recognize that we have collected enough information to draw conclusions, and then go about defending them. The comments in this thread are simply my statement of my conclusions. Their purpose is entirely explanatory, not evangelical. You should accept only what faith would compel you to take seriously, even if you eventually change your faith and accept an entirely different god or set of gods. Evidence and reason has lead me to conclude that creationism/supernaturalism is inferior to the alternatives I have studied.