God given rights. Do you really have any?

[Wyatt earp]

God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL

Well it is a funny thing. When you ask a godless Leftist if we have rights that empower the state to "help" people, they will spout off a bunch of rights, such as the right to health care, the right to abortions, the right to vote, etc.

However, if you try to mention rights of the individual that limit government power they will say that such rights don't really exist.

In short, they want their cake and eat it too.

Well the governments give us rights and takes them away.
And the republicans think they have a right to own a gun or rifle (without background checks) and do mass shootings, and the republicans think they have a right who can get married, and who gets healthcare or not.

See how that works.

Even California said no to gay marriage

and they were the first state to recognize it. Only the anti gay ? religious freaks were against it. Its a legal issue, not a moral one.

The supreme court forced it on California..

But you already knew that

So see how you republicans like to act, like you are gods and gay marriage is not forced on anyone.
Its a legal issue, not a moral one.

If law is moral, then the issue is a moral one.

It can be said that law is not as moral as it will be, but we cannot say that it does not hold any morality.

Given that secular law is bringing more peace and law minding than religions, I would give it high marks for morality.

Thank God for laïcité.

Regards
DL

Abortion and the death penalty is barbaric, mans laws change like the wind

Please opine on this in terms of where the law must eventually go.

I will put my money on the notion that it is a fact that good people will inevitably demand and make good law.



Regards
DL

Huh? Even the ex govenors of Illinois a republican suspended the death penalty, when will the left wake up on abortion?

Who suspended the death penalty?
What is it about men and their obsession with controlling women's health?

Ex govenor Ryan he ended up in prison.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Not relevant to whether you have rights in the absence of said god.

The DoI says men are "endowed by their creator" ( the unspoken; "whomsoever you may or may not believe that creator to be" is implied), not the Judeo-Christian (or any other ) "God"...This semantic construct isn't an accident.

The founding fathers also believed you had the right to own slaves, that bleeding someone was a solid medical treatment and that shitting in a chamber pot was as good as it got.

Just because the Founding Slave Rapists believed in an Imaginary Sky Pixie (even if they thought the stories in the Bible were silly) doesn't mean that there is one.

Don't take history out of context, if they believed that their wouldn't be a means to free the slaves in the Constitution.

 

[Oddball]

Not relevant to whether you have rights in the absence of said god.

The DoI says men are "endowed by their creator" ( the unspoken; "whomsoever you may or may not believe that creator to be" is implied), not the Judeo-Christian (or any other ) "God"...This semantic construct isn't an accident.

The founding fathers also believed you had the right to own slaves, that bleeding someone was a solid medical treatment and that shitting in a chamber pot was as good as it got.

Just because the Founding Slave Rapists believed in an Imaginary Sky Pixie (even if they thought the stories in the Bible were silly) doesn't mean that there is one.

Don't take history out of context, if they believed that their wouldn't be a means to free the slaves in the Constitution.

Nothing new....Taking things out out of context and inventing new meanings of words are two of the go-to techniques of the committed authoritarian.

 

[Andylusion]

God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL

The problem with government given rights, is that you assume this means the government will ensure those rights.

The problem is, if government is the only reason you have them, then government can deny you those rights whenever it pleases.

Throughout all human history, governments have proclaimed themselves to be benefactors, at a the exact same time as claiming to be benefactors, went about every method of abusing the public they claimed to be benefactors for.

Again, if your only rights are given to you by government, then government can take those rights away.

This is one of the huge schizophrenic aspects of left-wing ideology, generally speaking. They say that government regulation and control is fine, because the government is "us".

But then they'll turn right around and complain that politicians serve their own political interests, that corporations have influence, that government agencies all act according to their own values.

AOC being the mindless idiot she is, actually argued both of those. In one video she said "Government is us! Government is the public", and then in another attacked government regulators as having endless conflicts of interest. Wait, I thought government was "us"? It never ends with AOC, because she'll double talk every point she's ever made.

My point though, is that saying that government gave you those rights, implies that government has to power to give, and take, rights.

This is how all tyrannical governments exist. If they can give you a right, they can take it as well.

The United States was different, because we said government isn't the source of our rights. Government is merely to enforce the rights we already have.

In 1689, Locke argued in his Two Treatises of Government that political society existed for the sake of protecting "property", which he defined as a person's "life, liberty, and estate"

This is why it is vital that rights remain, not of government, but of our creator. Because the moment we put the power of determine what is or is not a right, in the hands of human government, humans will abuse that power, and deny rights when it is convenient to do so.

Rights cannot be given. They can only be taken.

Only the one who thinks a right exists can act upon it.

We have elected enforcers and without them to protect you, you can only take your rights to their limits unless you wish to come under the law.

You make your own rights and contribute to the system you need to protect them.

For the people, by the people.

Perhaps the only good phase in your constitution.

If you lived up to that, you would profit from your lousy constitution the way other free countrys have.

That is a shame. I like you goofs.

Regards
DL

If you lived up to that, you would profit from your lousy constitution the way other free countrys have.

I'm confused. We have the highest standard of living in the world today. Some of poorest working people, live better lives than those of the middle class of Europe.

A married couple working at McDonald's full time, has a combined income that places them in the top 1% of household income world wide.

A married couple doing team truck driving, places them in the top 1% of the top 1%, world wide.

We have a life style that the vast majority of people in this world, could only dream of.

So.... explain that comment again?

 

[Oddball]

The rights people actually have are derived directly from the forbearance of the governments they live under.

Then you have privileges and are a subject, not a free man.....The exact opposite of what was supposed to be set forth in 1786.

We have all decided to give up freedom for the security that liberty gives.

You have a Statue of Liberty, not of freedom, and you would not vote for freedom as you would not want to live where you had to always be fearful of your neighbor.

Freedom, for tribal humans is impossible.

Regards
DL

Empty platitudes and straw men aren't arguments.

 

[JoeB131]

Again, this has next to nothing to do with what I said.

Did I need to use smaller words for you, Corky?

 

[JoeB131]

Don't take history out of context, if they believed that their wouldn't be a means to free the slaves in the Constitution.

Except there wasn't a means in the constitution, that was the problem. We had to defeat the South in a war, then FORCE them to end slavery to get back into the union.

The constitution was designed to PERPETUATE slavery.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm confused. We have the highest standard of living in the world today. Some of poorest working people, live better lives than those of the middle class of Europe.

Yes, you are confused. The European live a lot better than we do now.

A married couple working at McDonald's full time, has a combined income that places them in the top 1% of household income world wide.

That's only because so much of the third world lives in grinding poverty. That's nothing to be happy about.

Only a declining empire worries about how it is living better than the "Barbarians"

 

[Oddball]

Again, this has next to nothing to do with what I said.

Did I need to use smaller words for you, Corky?

No, you actually have to comment on the subject matter in a cogent manner, rather than stray into the common misdirections and irrelevancies that apologists for authoritarianism do with such aplomb.

 

[Oddball]

Don't take history out of context, if they believed that their wouldn't be a means to free the slaves in the Constitution.

Except there wasn't a means in the constitution, that was the problem. We had to defeat the South in a war, then FORCE them to end slavery to get back into the union.

The constitution was designed to PERPETUATE slavery.

The means was and is the amendment process.....There didn't have to be a war.

 

[yidnar]

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL

There are no rights.

There are privileges society thinks you should have.

Any fool who thinks he has rights should look up "Japanese-Americans, 1942".

its 2020 and the only party that locked up the JAs are the same bastards locking up American for going outside or going to work ....democrats !

 

[JoeB131]

No, you actually have to comment on the subject matter in a cogent manner, rather than stray into the common misdirections and irrelevancies that apologists for authoritarianism do with such aplomb.

I did.. Very clearly.

Please name ONE bit of government overreach in the US that really didn't have wide popular support.

Thanks.

 

[yidnar]

The rights people actually have are derived directly from the forbearance of the governments they live under.

I agree.

I take it that you would not sign the U.S. constitution as written. Right?

Regards
DL

life liberty and the pursuit of happiness !

 

[Newtonian]

God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL

Well it is a funny thing. When you ask a godless Leftist if we have rights that empower the state to "help" people, they will spout off a bunch of rights, such as the right to health care, the right to abortions, the right to vote, etc.

However, if you try to mention rights of the individual that limit government power they will say that such rights don't really exist.

In short, they want their cake and eat it too.

Well the governments give us rights and takes them away.
And the republicans think they have a right to own a gun or rifle (without background checks) and do mass shootings, and the republicans think they have a right who can get married, and who gets healthcare or not.

See how that works.

Even California said no to gay marriage

and they were the first state to recognize it. Only the anti gay ? religious freaks were against it. Its a legal issue, not a moral one.

The supreme court forced it on California..

But you already knew that

So see how you republicans like to act, like you are gods and gay marriage is not forced on anyone.
Its a legal issue, not a moral one.

If law is moral, then the issue is a moral one.

It can be said that law is not as moral as it will be, but we cannot say that it does not hold any morality.

Given that secular law is bringing more peace and law minding than religions, I would give it high marks for morality.

Thank God for laïcité.

Regards
DL

Abortion and the death penalty is barbaric, mans laws change like the wind

Abortion is murder - from our literature:

Do You Value Life as God Does? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"Every human life is important to Jehovah. Even an unborn baby is precious to him. Under the Law of Moses, if a person accidentally hurt a pregnant woman and either she or her baby died, Jehovah held that person guilty of manslaughter. This meant that even though it was an accident, someone had been killed and the life had to be compensated for. (Read Exodus 21:22, 23.) To God, an unborn baby is a living person. Knowing that, how do you think he feels about abortion? How do you think he feels when he sees millions of unborn babies killed every year?"

Ex. 21: "soul for soul, life for life" - under the Mosaic Law not the law of Christ - Christians are not authorized to execute - but see "Romans 13:1-5" - Why do governments have the God-given right to "bear the sword?"

An unborn child is a human life. Life is one of the inalienable rights stated in OP.

From the nabre:
Exodus 21:22 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

22 When men have a fight and hurt a pregnant woman, so that she suffers a miscarriage, but no further injury, the guilty one shall be fined as much as the woman’s husband demands of him, and he shall pay in the presence of the judges.

and what do you think about this one:
1 Samuel 15:3 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
3 Now go and smite Am′alek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’”

Penelope - you need to read on a little further:

Exodus 21:22,23 (NW ref. 1984 edition)
“And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children+ do come out* but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices.+ 23 But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul* for soul,+

So, if the unborn child was killed, this was a capital offense - i.e. execution.

However, since this is talking about accidental murder, the guilty party(s) could flee to one of the cities of refuge and avoid execution.

 

[Andylusion]

I'm confused. We have the highest standard of living in the world today. Some of poorest working people, live better lives than those of the middle class of Europe.

Yes, you are confused. The European live a lot better than we do now.

View attachment 337342

A married couple working at McDonald's full time, has a combined income that places them in the top 1% of household income world wide.

That's only because so much of the third world lives in grinding poverty. That's nothing to be happy about.

Only a declining empire worries about how it is living better than the "Barbarians"

We're not worrying about how we are living better than the barbarians. We're not worried at all.

Maybe you are.... but that's because you are foolish, and don't realize how good you have it.

The only people who claim things are so much better elsewhere, are generally people who have never been, or lived elsewhere.

Have you really been through Europe? Have you actually lived with people in Europe to see how they really live?

I have.

I've seen a family of four, living in a shack smaller than my first apartment.

I've seen people riding bicycles to work, not because they are health conscious, or environmentally conscious, or because they particularly enjoy riding a bicycle in the rain.

They do it because they can't afford a car, or can't afford gas.

I've seen people spend hours cutting the grass in their yard with a scythe, because they can't afford a mower.

The poorest people in our country, that work a full time job, live better than many of the middle class in Europe.

And as far as you graph about 'quality of life'. A: I find it ironic that Switzerland is #1.

Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

Country rankings based on economic freedom. World and global economy rankings from the Index of Economic Freedom are published by The Heritage Foundation.

www.heritage.org

Switzerland is number #5 on the economic freedom index, while the US is ranked 17th.

In other words, Switzerland is more capitalist than the US.

But have to tell you, I think your quality of life index is garbage. Pure garbage.

Because I meet people all the time, who say they won't go back to Europe. I know Swedish girl right now. You ask her if Sweden is better than the US "Oh yes, Sweden is much better". Then you ask her "Then why don't you go back?"

"oh.... well... I can't earn nearly enough in Sweden to live the kind of life I have here".

Real conversation. I know Germans that live in the US, Brits that live in the US, French that live in the US, Swedish that live in the US.... and none of them are going back to Europe. All of them, no matter what they claim with their mouths, are making a statement with their feet, by staying in the US, and not going back to Europe.

The NRA trainer that I had running the class for my Conceal and Carry license, was a former British police officer, that got sick and tired of them passing laws preventing citizens from defending themselves, and seeing crime increase year over year.

Over and over, I don't see that people in Europe live a better life. Yes, Europe is way better than 3rd world countries. I am not suggesting otherwise. But when you claim the US is not as good a Europe... you are ignorant. The US is a dream world compared to Europe.

 

[Andylusion]

No, you actually have to comment on the subject matter in a cogent manner, rather than stray into the common misdirections and irrelevancies that apologists for authoritarianism do with such aplomb.

I did.. Very clearly.

Please name ONE bit of government overreach in the US that really didn't have wide popular support.

Thanks.

Overreach, is overreach, whether it has popular support or not.

The whole point of having a constitution, is to prevent overreach, whether there is popular support or not.



Start at 5:00. Democracy is a holy terror, that will destroy the country, and we were never supposed to be a rule of the people.

Having and abusive authoritarian government, even if supported by the public, is still just that.

Maybe you missed it sparky, but there was a time when the public supported enslaving mass numbers of people because of their skin color.

I guess that government overreach was fine because the public supported it?

No. There are limits to government, and those limits need to be enforced, whether the public supports violating those limits or not.

 

[Shelzin]

No, you actually have to comment on the subject matter in a cogent manner, rather than stray into the common misdirections and irrelevancies that apologists for authoritarianism do with such aplomb.

I did.. Very clearly.

Please name ONE bit of government overreach in the US that really didn't have wide popular support.

Thanks.

Given where our education system is... Having wide popular support doesn't mean what it used to. The "No Child Left Behind" generation thinks that people who can produce sperm are female. That straight people are Sexist/Transphobic for not wanting to date transgender people.

I just don't think that's a very good argument anymore.

 

[Shelzin]

Exodus 21:22,23 (NW ref. 1984 edition)
“And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children+ do come out* but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices.+ 23 But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul* for soul,+

Wait... Who owns the woman?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Don't take history out of context, if they believed that their wouldn't be a means to free the slaves in the Constitution.

Except there wasn't a means in the constitution, that was the problem. We had to defeat the South in a war, then FORCE them to end slavery to get back into the union.

The constitution was designed to PERPETUATE slavery.

Seriously dude that's what you believe?

For the millionth time their would of been no United States today if we didn't have slavery

 

[JoeB131]

We're not worrying about how we are living better than the barbarians. We're not worried at all.

Maybe you are.... but that's because you are foolish, and don't realize how good you have it.

Actually, what I know is that we are in decline and not taking care of our people. That we've been brought to near complete collapse by a flu with an attitude tells me how bad off we are.

Given where our education system is... Having wide popular support doesn't mean what it used to. The "No Child Left Behind" generation thinks that people who can produce sperm are female. That straight people are Sexist/Transphobic for not wanting to date transgender people.

I just don't think that's a very good argument anymore.

It's a fine argument. Look, man, we know just because you picked up that trannie in a bar that one time, you are 100% straight. You have a total case of the not-gays.