Generating electricity for cities in cities

[westwall]

View attachment 1166280

No residential system has attained 25%. 20% is possible with the very best solar modules.

You don't get beyond that till you start spending huge amounts of money. Like millions.

 

[westwall]

I did. If you think converting photons into electricity and then using that electricity creates more waste heat than burning fossil fuels to create electricity and then use that electricity, then you are an idiot.

Are you an idiot? Do you believe sea levels aren’t rising because of a photo of the Statue of Liberty? Are you that big of an idiot?

You had to burn a shitload of fossil fuels to make that solar module in the first place. How much energy they produce is important overall.

Do they create more than was used to create them?

 

[ding]

Large solar farms create localized cooling

Right. While also heating the planet.

Your original idiotic claim didn't involve replacing fossil fuels.

Maybe read this paper…


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0038092X23008320#:~:text=During%20the%20daytime,%20cooling%20with,(10%20out%20of%2022).&text=Fig.,both%20in%20sign%20and%20magnitude

…and watch this video.

 

[ding]

You had to burn a shitload of fossil fuels to make that solar module in the first place. How much energy they produce is important overall.

Do they create more than was used to create them?

I don’t believe so. I’ve heard that claim before but have never seen it proven.

 

[ding]

Depends on the system you are using, but the best nat gas systems lose around 40%, while coal is in the 60 to 70% range.

But, more advanced systems can lower that loss.

Agreed.

Just so you know, I’m not arguing for solar. I’m arguing against it. I think the widespread use of solar in the middle of an ice age is a bad idea. I believe that installing solar panels on 1% of the land surface area would be enough to change the planet from net warming to net cooling.

The climate community dismisses this now because they have a hard on to get rid of fossil fuels. They aren’t looking at this objectively.

 

[ding]

if light is a density on the aether, spreading to less dense aether, the infinite vastness of the aether must exist at depths of cold an emptiness approaching infinity or else heat and light would slow down when it traverses the relative density of the aether, objects would slow down for that matter as well. What do you think Toddsterpatriot ? professor ding ?

Unless the aether is dark energy, I don’t believe it exists.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Maybe read this paper…

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien... of 22).&text=Fig.,both in sign and magnitude

…and watch this video.

Now look at the consumption site.
Or keep using bad physics and bad math.

 

[ReinyDays]

Satellites have measured cooling effects at over 100 solar farms.

Loading…

www.sciencedirect.com

Which band are you using as a proxy for temperature? ... [giggle] ... and what are the actual temperatures measured with ... you know ... thermometers ... HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW ... you've got a friend in SSDD ...

I believe that installing solar panels on 1% of the land surface area would be enough to change the planet from net warming to net cooling.

1.5 trillion square meters? ... that'll cost you $150 trillion just for the panels ... another $75 trillion for mounting hardware ... and 75 gigatonnes of carbon pollution ...

And of course, this refutes any effect the oceans have ... nicely done ...

 

[Old Rocks]

Just wait till one wants to install a (SMR) small modular nuke reactor.

This one was certified in 2023.

US Certifies First Small Modular Nuclear Reactor

This certification paves the way for companies to construct reactors that require less space, capital, and labor than their conventional counterparts.

www.extremetech.com

And how many have been installed and where were they installed? In the meantime, how many gigawatts of solar has been installed? LOL

 

[Old Rocks]

Roof top solar is ubiquitous in San Diego now ... I guess the OP couldn't resist the bright shiny click-bait ... why he's foolish enough to share it here is incomprehensible ...

Hey stupid ... Portland has hydro ... it's the state taxes that make your electric bills so high ... check Idaho rates ... solar where it rains every day all day long ... what a maroon ...

Roof top solar is ubiquitous in San Diego now ... I guess the OP couldn't resist the bright shiny click-bait ... why he's foolish enough to share it here is incomprehensible ...

Hey stupid ... Portland has hydro ... it's the state taxes that make your electric bills so high ... check Idaho rates ... solar where it rains every day all day long ... what a maroon ...

Portland is a very small area in Oregon. There are vast areas that get ample sunlight even in the winter. Like the areas south of Burns, or between Bend and Burns. Quite obviously you have seen very little of Oregon.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, and any photons converted into electricity are photons which do not heat the surface of the planet.

Someone has never heard of conservation of energy.

The law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed from one form to another, and the total energy in an isolated system remains constant.

Definition​

The law of conservation of energy asserts that in any isolated system, the total energy remains constant over time. This means that while energy can change forms—such as from potential energy to kinetic energy—it cannot be created or annihilated. For example, when a ball is thrown into the air, its kinetic energy decreases as it rises, while its potential energy increases until it reaches its highest point, where kinetic energy is at its minimum and potential energy is at its maximum.

BYJU'S+1

Historical​

The concept was first proposed and tested by the French mathematician and philosopher Émilie du Châtelet in the 18th century. It is a fundamental principle in physics and is often referred to as the first law of thermodynamics.

Science Notes and Projects

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And how many have been installed and where were they installed? In the meantime, how many gigawatts of solar has been installed? LOL

Lots of money has been wasted on more expensive, less reliable solar.

 

[Old Rocks]

That's weird, leftists think everything is free!

Turning Point USA CEO and co-founder Charlie Kirk said of gun deaths on April 5, 2023, "I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights."

Charlie Kirk

So, freedom is not free, and some people have to pay the price.

 

[Old Rocks]

I don't know.

Coal-fired power plants are known for their high efficiency, with a typical U.S. coal plant operating at 32% to 33% efficiency. This means that a significant portion of the heat generated is wasted during the conversion process. The exact amount of wasted heat can vary depending on the specific plant design and operating conditions. However, it is generally understood that a substantial amount of heat is lost in coal-fired generation plants, contributing to the overall inefficiency of the process.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=abde...eWluZW5lcmd5L2RldGFpbC5waHA_aWQ9NDQ0MzY&ntb=1
U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA


Natural gas does a little better, but not much, by using some of the waste heat for additional generation. So while solar and wind have lower efficiency rates, about 10% to 15% lower, they generate little waste heat and no additional GHG's.

 

[westwall]

Coal-fired power plants are known for their high efficiency, with a typical U.S. coal plant operating at 32% to 33% efficiency. This means that a significant portion of the heat generated is wasted during the conversion process. The exact amount of wasted heat can vary depending on the specific plant design and operating conditions. However, it is generally understood that a substantial amount of heat is lost in coal-fired generation plants, contributing to the overall inefficiency of the process.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=abde...eWluZW5lcmd5L2RldGFpbC5waHA_aWQ9NDQ0MzY&ntb=1
U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA
Natural gas does a little better, but not much, by using some of the waste heat for additional generation. So while solar and wind have lower efficiency rates, about 10% to 15% lower, they generate little waste heat and no additional GHG's.

Nat gas is TWICE as efficient as coal.

Try again.

 

[Old Rocks]

converting to solar reduces waste heat and causes a cooling affect at solar farms.

Why yes, it is cooler under the panels. Which makes them ideal for covering canals, parking lots, and using in agrivoltaics for some crops. Also cools roofs in the summer while providing some insulation in the winter. In fact, many farmers have found that certain crops not only thrive, but provide better crops under the panels, while the panels provide a second source of income.

agrivoltaics - Search Videos

Watch videos instantly on Bing—enjoy direct playback, discover related clips, and dive into trending content all in one place.

www.bing.com

 

[Old Rocks]

Nat gas is TWICE as efficient as coal.

Try again.

Some are. However, the efficiency of wind power is better than that of coal, and exceeds that of simple cycle gas plants. Solar, presently at 22% is constantly not only getting less costly but also increasing in efficiency. And neither solar nor wind produce GHG's.
As of 2023, Nuclear power plant efficiency averages around 33%, which is comparable to other fossil fuel-based generation units. This means that 67% of the energy produced by a nuclear plant is lost and only 33% is converted into electricity. Some modern nuclear plants, known as very high temperature reactors, may be able to achieve 45% to 50% efficiency.  

Coal power plant efficiency is very similar to nuclear, with a typical U.S. coal plant operating at 32% to 33% efficiency. The U.S. Department of Energy’s Transformative Power Systems Research Program is working on concepts to develop small, flexible, low-emissions coal plants that could achieve 40% to 45% efficiency.

There are two different types of natural gas power plants — simple cycle and combined cycle. A simple cycle natural gas power plant efficiency rate tends to be lower, ranging from 33% to 43%. On the other hand, a combined cycle power plant’s efficiency can reach upwards of 60% because it captures and uses the plant’s hot exhaust gases to spin a secondary turbine, which generates more electricity. The result is that less energy is lost in the conversion process.  

U.S. oil power plant efficiency rates have ranged between 30% and 32% since 2001. In 2023, oil-powered plants had an efficiency rate of 30.4%. 

With a 90% efficiency rate, hydro plants are the most efficient power plants. This is because dams funnel water directly to the turbines that generate the electricity, resulting in very little energy loss during the conversion process.  

Power Plant Efficiency: Coal, Natural Gas, Nuclear, and More (Updated for 2025!) | PCI Energy Solutions

 

[Old Rocks]

No residential system has attained 25%. 20% is possible with the very best solar modules.

You don't get beyond that till you start spending huge amounts of money. Like millions.

Try to keep up, old man.

22.8%
The best efficiency of solar panels in 2025 is provided by Maxeon Solar Technologies, with their 440-watt panel achieving an efficiency of 22.8%. This high efficiency allows for greater electric bill savings compared to less efficient panels. Other top brands include Qcells, Canadian Solar, REC, and Panasonic, each offering highly efficient solar panels that can significantly reduce electricity costs over time.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e6da...0LXNvbGFyLXBhbmVscy1vbi10aGUtbWFya2V0Lw&ntb=1
EnergySage
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e6da...0LXNvbGFyLXBhbmVscy1vbi10aGUtbWFya2V0Lw&ntb=1
And we have companies working on increasing that by a factor of 1.5 to 2.

 

[westwall]

Try to keep up, old man.

22.8%
The best efficiency of solar panels in 2025 is provided by Maxeon Solar Technologies, with their 440-watt panel achieving an efficiency of 22.8%. This high efficiency allows for greater electric bill savings compared to less efficient panels. Other top brands include Qcells, Canadian Solar, REC, and Panasonic, each offering highly efficient solar panels that can significantly reduce electricity costs over time.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e6da...0LXNvbGFyLXBhbmVscy1vbi10aGUtbWFya2V0Lw&ntb=1
EnergySage
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e6da...0LXNvbGFyLXBhbmVscy1vbi10aGUtbWFya2V0Lw&ntb=1
And we have companies working on increasing that by a factor of 1.5 to 2.

Their claims. As opposed to reality.

 

[westwall]

Some are. However, the efficiency of wind power is better than that of coal, and exceeds that of simple cycle gas plants. Solar, presently at 22% is constantly not only getting less costly but also increasing in efficiency. And neither solar nor wind produce GHG's.
As of 2023, Nuclear power plant efficiency averages around 33%, which is comparable to other fossil fuel-based generation units. This means that 67% of the energy produced by a nuclear plant is lost and only 33% is converted into electricity. Some modern nuclear plants, known as very high temperature reactors, may be able to achieve 45% to 50% efficiency.  

Coal power plant efficiency is very similar to nuclear, with a typical U.S. coal plant operating at 32% to 33% efficiency. The U.S. Department of Energy’s Transformative Power Systems Research Program is working on concepts to develop small, flexible, low-emissions coal plants that could achieve 40% to 45% efficiency.

There are two different types of natural gas power plants — simple cycle and combined cycle. A simple cycle natural gas power plant efficiency rate tends to be lower, ranging from 33% to 43%. On the other hand, a combined cycle power plant’s efficiency can reach upwards of 60% because it captures and uses the plant’s hot exhaust gases to spin a secondary turbine, which generates more electricity. The result is that less energy is lost in the conversion process.  

U.S. oil power plant efficiency rates have ranged between 30% and 32% since 2001. In 2023, oil-powered plants had an efficiency rate of 30.4%. 

With a 90% efficiency rate, hydro plants are the most efficient power plants. This is because dams funnel water directly to the turbines that generate the electricity, resulting in very little energy loss during the conversion process.  

Power Plant Efficiency: Coal, Natural Gas, Nuclear, and More (Updated for 2025!) | PCI Energy Solutions

Bullshit. Wind turbines are especially INEFFICIENT, because if the wind velocity is too high they feather, if the wind velocity is too low they are immobile.

These lies have nothing to do with reality.