Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

[kaz]

Flat tax collected by your employer cuts out a lot of fraud.

I'd like to keep my employer out of it. Apart from documenting the money I'm paid, my dealings with the government should be none of their business. 'Withholding' is one of the worst aspects of the current income tax code.

I like the painless savings aspect of payroll deduction.

That's exactly what makes it evil. When it's removed from your paycheck and you never see it it's painless. When people feel the pain, they question what it's being spent on. Otherwise one day you wake up and have a $1.6 Trillion deficit...

 

[saveliberty]

I fill out quaterly tax forms for my business. The less paperwork I have to do the better. Also, it complicates my business account with money that is available for payroll, bills and profit when taxes are still sitting in the account. I like knowing what is mine is truly mine. In a flat tax system, it is going to be gone and they aren't coming back for more.

 

[saveliberty]

I'd like to keep my employer out of it. Apart from documenting the money I'm paid, my dealings with the government should be none of their business. 'Withholding' is one of the worst aspects of the current income tax code.

I like the painless savings aspect of payroll deduction.

That's exactly what makes it evil. When it's removed from your paycheck and you never see it it's painless. When people feel the pain, they question what it's being spent on. Otherwise one day you wake up and have a $1.6 Trillion deficit...

What part of flat tax is causing you a problem?

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

The min. wage is $15 in Australia and the Pub dupe haters are pizzed that our half dead poor aren't paying enough income taxes? Enjoy Hell!!

This is all proven fact- YOU try and prove any of it wrong!!! You will fail. This is my synthesis of 3 years of arguing on here. Background information my azz. 30 years of neocon voodoo.... NONE OF THIS WAS TRUE (OR "EUROPEAN"!!) UNTIL THE DEMENTED RAYGUN (IT"S CONTAGIOUS!!!) Read it and weep, unless you're an AZZHOLE!!nly modern country in the modern world where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care (500k bankruptcies a year, most HAVE insurance - crap insurance!), worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison. Happiness? We're # 23!! And if you complain dupes say you're a commie. PFFFFFT!Racism and hate? We're #1!! Thank you Neocons! and this was before the most recent Pub financial scandal and Depression. Pub dupes!! Tell me facts are European, socialist, communist ya fegging morons...ty

 

[Big Fitz]

I fill out quaterly tax forms for my business. The less paperwork I have to do the better. Also, it complicates my business account with money that is available for payroll, bills and profit when taxes are still sitting in the account. I like knowing what is mine is truly mine. In a flat tax system, it is going to be gone and they aren't coming back for more.

See this is what I'd like too. It'd also help business to have them stop collecting sales tax.

 

[Susan45]

Come on all you class warriors...which of these groups should we be going after?

We shouldn't be going after anyone. The problem is your choices are we go after the rich and if we don't go after the rich we are going after the poor. Then you talk about others engaging in class warfare. The class warfare's you, tootsie.

BTW, charity with guns isn't charity. Neither is giving someone else's money. You fail twice.

Of course we shouldn't be going after anyone. I read this entire thread before I posted. I was hoping that someone would actually post some facts...didn't happen. But plenty of rancor about the poorest of the poor, with one person saying, iamwhatIseem #50
"If you made an income, absolutely.
If you can't feed your kids then you shouldn't have had any. I have ZERO sympathy for a single mother who has 4 kids by 3-4 different sperm donors. In fact...she should have to pay a higher rate of taxes since the rest of us are paying for the lion share of her kids food/healthcare/education." And another, WillowTree #55
"Get up and go feed yourself. You don't work? you don't eat." No class warfare? puleeeze. There was even a mini-conversation with people quoting Jesus when he said this, Mat 26:11 The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.
As if somehow Jesus said it was fine to abuse the poor. I think some people have some explaining to do.

I have not advocated stripping the rich of everything, or even most of everything. But I'm astounded that some of you think it's stealing to tax them an extra 3-4% or to take away their tax breaks on their private planes and yachts.

And while I'm not sure why you brought up charity since I haven't mentioned it. I will say that I don't believe in charity. I think that all of us need to work to feel good about ourselves and to grow as people.

 

[Susan45]

I love it. Everyone's a class warrior to a class warrior. They can't see outside their own paradigm which only exists between their ears. It's nothing more than an update of the view of the world as a giant caste system full of envy and hate for anyone who aquires on merit and everything that makes people economically mobile and free.

Wow! you shouldn't be so hysterical about it.

Well, if you weren't so funny, I wouldn't laugh so hard at you and your sneaky little 'oh I'm giving impartial data here, see? All sweet and innocent and above board.' routine so hard. It is hysterical you believed you'd get away with it.

Prove it. Come on prove this site is so biased that the numbers are wrong.

 

[Susan45]

So what? The government helped us "invest" in our homes and the stock market. Then they got both totally screwed up and we lost our money, while the rich held on to theirs because they had different investments. Your little chart does nothing to disprove a single word I wrote.

Oh for pete's sake, why don't you just admit that last post was a crock. Just who is taking anything from the rich? Isn't that what you said? "How is it class warfare AGAINST the poor, if your busy taking what belongs to the rich and giving it to the poor?" This is not true, it's just bullshit plain and simple. And you should be able to see that from the income distribution. The rich have been getting more and more rich and I contend it is because they have been taking from the poor. And before I see a ton if comments about how much I hate the rich, it is not true. I love our rich...you know the ones that have been working to make the country better.

Your so wrapped in your socialist dogma, that phrases like income distribution means you have a say in how someone chooses to use their own money. The rich have not been taking money from the poor. Your chart does not show that conclusion. How much poorer are the poor than 10 years ago? Your chart says nothing about that. It shows more individually poor people period. Your poor when you have little money. The housing bubble took money from people, not the rich. Credit card companies sucked people dry, not the rich. Your just a hate driven person with no understanding of the subject.

I can see you think the only way to 'win' an argument is to name call.

As yes, it's me that hates. If you had bothered to read the articles I've posted you would have the answers to some of your questions. It really is appalling at how little the people on the right do any research. Name calling though...you're real good at that.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! I have no understanding huh? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

 

[saveliberty]

Susan, your advocating stealing just a little (3-4%), so its okoay. Not really taking or stealing. I'll be by for your TV Monday. It is far less than 3-4% of your income I'm sure.

 

[Susan45]

How is it class warfare AGAINST the poor, if your busy taking what belongs to the rich and giving it to the poor? Why are you content supporting a cycle of poverty, lack of education and dependence on a set of rules you set up for them? It is your system that oppresses them, not free enterprise.

What an absolute crock of shit. Do you actually think before you write something?

These numbers are from the CBO which I'm sure that someone on the right will say is biased.

The rich have been getting more and more rich while the income for the rest of us has been going down. This is no secret you know.

I wouldn't call the CBO any more biased tan any other government institution. In fact they're usually one of the better ones because they get looked at so hard.

That said, the income inequality argument is a red herring. Everyone who earns should pay their fair share. The problem is, you don't want fair shares. You want PUNITIVE shares on those who do achieve. But the wealthy you target are the wealthy that employ you most of the time. Small businesses and independent contractors, family farms and 'unsavory industries'. You allow the market to be flooded with near slave labor in the forms of illegal immigrants that get paid cheaper than the market would if they were legal. Very useful idiots you are, for then you go out and complain that the wages of the poor are being suppressed, but you never consider for one second you are actually promulgating causes to make sure that's the case? Noooooo...You're too busy chanting 'Death to the Plutocrats" to notice you're the one's slitting the poor's throat.

If you robbed the rich in this nation of every dime they had that is known about, a la Michael Moore, you still wouldn't pay for your messiah's budget from last year. And of course in the process the economy would be devestated as there would be no more businesses or investment left to pay employees... yadda yadda yadda... you'd have achieved pyrrhic victory at the cost of everyone's lives. Good job.

Oh and by the bye... there IS no 'Income Distribution', they are called Income EARNINGS. You know? Someone works, they earn? Someone invests, they earn? So what does Distribution mean? that there is an ideal distribution that must be met as set forth by GOVERNMENT so everyone has a 'fair' slice of the pie. Back we go to "Mommy Mommy" envy ethics without monitoring how big a slice of pie Mommy is eating, leaving everyone else fighting for scraps. But if you get to BE Mommy... there... THERE is the scheme concocted in most socialist's brains. Then none of the other kids could ever watch over how much pie you greedily would suck down and you could punish any child that complains at what a greedy ***** mommy is.

And how nice of you to hold moral judgment over what KIND of Rich people should be allowed. You know.. the ones who agree with your lack of morality? God forbid someone out there should disagree with you and your 'ethics'.

What're you going to do when there is no pie left to share after Mommy eats it all?

WOW! that is some ideology you have here. You're certainly free to try and fit me into your warped world view if you like, I don't care.

Hey! why are you bringing up Micheal Moore? He's one of our rich. We like him.

 

[saveliberty]

A lot better ideology than what is yours is mine, if I or my government can take it.

 

[kaz]

I like the painless savings aspect of payroll deduction.

That's exactly what makes it evil. When it's removed from your paycheck and you never see it it's painless. When people feel the pain, they question what it's being spent on. Otherwise one day you wake up and have a $1.6 Trillion deficit...

What part of flat tax is causing you a problem?

Multiple things:

1) It doesn't eliminate all the other taxes

2) It still provides incentives for companies to make decisions based on taxes. For example, outsourcing and offshoring

3) It doesn't bring the cash based tax evaders into the system so honest taxpayers are still footing the bill

The fairtax taxes solves all those problems and treats all revenue the same. The only way to reduce taxes is to reduce price.

 

[Big Fitz]

Wow! you shouldn't be so hysterical about it.

Well, if you weren't so funny, I wouldn't laugh so hard at you and your sneaky little 'oh I'm giving impartial data here, see? All sweet and innocent and above board.' routine so hard. It is hysterical you believed you'd get away with it.

Prove it. Come on prove this site is so biased that the numbers are wrong.

All I have to do, and did was point out the fact that their "Research" is biased in favor of many left leaning conclusions. All one has to do is follow your own link, hit "home" and look at their areas of research, news and background. I bet if I was bored enough and dug into the bios of their board of directors, I'd find a heck of a lot of ties to even more radical left wing stuff. If I tracked their money, I'd probably find the Tides Foundation.

 

[Susan45]

Susan, your advocating stealing just a little (3-4%), so its okoay. Not really taking or stealing. I'll be by for your TV Monday. It is far less than 3-4% of your income I'm sure.

I don't believe that taxation is stealing. I find that argument just ridiculous.

I don't know how old you are but if it hadn't been for the taxes raised this country would be in sorry shape. I believe we should see that our country gets back in shape and we never again have to see a bridge fall due to neglect.

 

[Big Fitz]

What an absolute crock of shit. Do you actually think before you write something?

These numbers are from the CBO which I'm sure that someone on the right will say is biased.

The rich have been getting more and more rich while the income for the rest of us has been going down. This is no secret you know.

I wouldn't call the CBO any more biased tan any other government institution. In fact they're usually one of the better ones because they get looked at so hard.

That said, the income inequality argument is a red herring. Everyone who earns should pay their fair share. The problem is, you don't want fair shares. You want PUNITIVE shares on those who do achieve. But the wealthy you target are the wealthy that employ you most of the time. Small businesses and independent contractors, family farms and 'unsavory industries'. You allow the market to be flooded with near slave labor in the forms of illegal immigrants that get paid cheaper than the market would if they were legal. Very useful idiots you are, for then you go out and complain that the wages of the poor are being suppressed, but you never consider for one second you are actually promulgating causes to make sure that's the case? Noooooo...You're too busy chanting 'Death to the Plutocrats" to notice you're the one's slitting the poor's throat.

If you robbed the rich in this nation of every dime they had that is known about, a la Michael Moore, you still wouldn't pay for your messiah's budget from last year. And of course in the process the economy would be devestated as there would be no more businesses or investment left to pay employees... yadda yadda yadda... you'd have achieved pyrrhic victory at the cost of everyone's lives. Good job.

Oh and by the bye... there IS no 'Income Distribution', they are called Income EARNINGS. You know? Someone works, they earn? Someone invests, they earn? So what does Distribution mean? that there is an ideal distribution that must be met as set forth by GOVERNMENT so everyone has a 'fair' slice of the pie. Back we go to "Mommy Mommy" envy ethics without monitoring how big a slice of pie Mommy is eating, leaving everyone else fighting for scraps. But if you get to BE Mommy... there... THERE is the scheme concocted in most socialist's brains. Then none of the other kids could ever watch over how much pie you greedily would suck down and you could punish any child that complains at what a greedy ***** mommy is.

And how nice of you to hold moral judgment over what KIND of Rich people should be allowed. You know.. the ones who agree with your lack of morality? God forbid someone out there should disagree with you and your 'ethics'.

What're you going to do when there is no pie left to share after Mommy eats it all?

WOW! that is some ideology you have here. You're certainly free to try and fit me into your warped world view if you like, I don't care.

Hey! why are you bringing up Micheal Moore? He's one of our rich. We like him.

Hence the useful idiot analogy, but I think this is becoming more appropriate.

 

[kaz]

But I'm astounded that some of you think it's stealing to tax them an extra 3-4% or to take away their tax breaks on their private planes and yachts

And while I'm not sure why you brought up charity since I haven't mentioned it. I will say that I don't believe in charity. I think that all of us need to work to feel good about ourselves and to grow as people.

This is your problem, you don't think giving someone else's money to someone is "charity" but that it's a right.

 

[Charles_Main]

The Tax Foundation - Number of Americans Outside the Income Tax System Continues to Grow

Report after report has shown a growing majority, conservatively at 40%, of American workers pay no income tax, ZERO. Meanwhile the top 10% of American income earners fund 70% of total federal income taxes.

Where is the shared sacrifice?

If those who are paying zero income tax were to contribute 'their fair share' perhaps it would solve this current financial situation--for a few months at least. But it isn't politically expedient to go after people who don't pay taxes.

This is a result of tax credits, loopholes if you will, that allow median income earners to pay virtually nothing in income tax. Obama is all for inciting a mob against the evil rich who are currently funding this unsustainable spending spree that has intensified more under the short two years, though it seems much longer, of Obama's presidency than it has under any other administration.

Record monthly deficit spending was reached back in March and has continued at $200 billion a month. The US Federal Government spends $200 billion more a month than it takes in revenue, and Obama wants everyone to believe the problem is the rich aren't paying their fair share .

But we're told that cutting deficit spending will damage the economy. That is the justification for this absurd situation: fixing it will hurt the economy; as if continuing in this manner is going to have anything but an apocalyptic outcome .

Americans have become desensitized to the constant cries of crisis that Obama has used to achieve the entirety of his legislative agenda, it isn't working anymore.

I am all for fixing Loop holes. However one of the ways people who have money avoid taxes is by making charitable Contributions. I myself do not consider that a loop hole, and I know some of the "tax the rich crowd" does.

I am of the mind set that 90% of the time. Private Charities are a much more efficient means of providing Aid to those who need, than the US government. I don't want to see changes in the tax code that lead to a dramatic drop in Charitable contributions.

 

[kaz]

Susan, your advocating stealing just a little (3-4%), so its okoay. Not really taking or stealing. I'll be by for your TV Monday. It is far less than 3-4% of your income I'm sure.

I don't believe that taxation is stealing. I find that argument just ridiculous.

I don't know how old you are but if it hadn't been for the taxes raised this country would be in sorry shape. I believe we should see that our country gets back in shape and we never again have to see a bridge fall due to neglect.

Taking money from people for things like police and military that benefit all Americans equally is not stealing. But taking money by force from some Americans and giving it to others is the definition of stealing.

 

[Susan45]

Well, if you weren't so funny, I wouldn't laugh so hard at you and your sneaky little 'oh I'm giving impartial data here, see? All sweet and innocent and above board.' routine so hard. It is hysterical you believed you'd get away with it.

Prove it. Come on prove this site is so biased that the numbers are wrong.

All I have to do, and did was point out the fact that their "Research" is biased in favor of many left leaning conclusions. All one has to do is follow your own link, hit "home" and look at their areas of research, news and background. I bet if I was bored enough and dug into the bios of their board of directors, I'd find a heck of a lot of ties to even more radical left wing stuff. If I tracked their money, I'd probably find the Tides Foundation.

OMG! NO! the Tides Foundation? HAHAHAHAHA!! I don't even know who they are, but they must be bad if you are slinging around their name right now. And I do realize that folks on the right get bored by research, but I guess that is just too bad, because without some numbers you're stuck with the ones I've posted.

The fact is you can't find numbers to refute what I've posted because they don't exist.

So you go on with your magic, name calling fantasies but until you can actually point to something to refute the number I will contend that they are true and trying to insult me only looks bad for you.

 

[Susan45]

But I'm astounded that some of you think it's stealing to tax them an extra 3-4% or to take away their tax breaks on their private planes and yachts

And while I'm not sure why you brought up charity since I haven't mentioned it. I will say that I don't believe in charity. I think that all of us need to work to feel good about ourselves and to grow as people.

This is your problem, you don't think giving someone else's money to someone is "charity" but that it's a right.

If this is the way you view taxation, then I think your world view is seriously messed up.