Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

[Contumacious]

Some have implied or suggested that people who do not owe federal income tax are “freeloaders” who don’t have a “stake in the system” and that making them pay federal income taxes would improve the tax code.

Income Tax Historical background

"To raise revenue to fund the Civil War, the income tax was introduced in the United States with the Revenue Act of 1861.[1] It was a flat tax of 3% on annual income above $800. The following year, this was replaced with a graduated tax of 3-5% on income above $600 in the Revenue Act of 1862, which specified a termination of income taxation in 1866. The Socialist Labor Party advocated a graduated income tax in 1887.[2] The Populist Party "demanded a graduated income tax" in its 1892 platform.[3] The Populist Party, led by William Jennings Bryan, advocated the income tax law passed in 1894,[4] and proposed an income tax in its 1908 platform.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock_v._Farmers'_Loan_&_Trust_Co.

.

 

[Polk]

Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because of that?

This is your problem, you want the tax code directed by who you like. When fiscal conservatives say not to punish the wealthy, treat them like everyone else, that's making them a privileged, protected class. The basic lie of liberalism is that you can ever achieve equality through inequity

They already are treated like everyone else.

 

[Polk]

Yeah! so? they pay taxes on the interest too.

That assumes they spend it.

It assumes nothing of the sort.

Of course it does. How else will they pay taxes on the interest in a society that only has a sales tax?

 

[Susan45]

The Tax Foundation - Number of Americans Outside the Income Tax System Continues to Grow

Report after report has shown a growing majority, conservatively at 40%, of American workers pay no income tax, ZERO. Meanwhile the top 10% of American income earners fund 70% of total federal income taxes.

Where is the shared sacrifice?

If those who are paying zero income tax were to contribute 'their fair share' perhaps it would solve this current financial situation--for a few months at least. But it isn't politically expedient to go after people who don't pay taxes.

This is a result of tax credits, loopholes if you will, that allow median income earners to pay virtually nothing in income tax. Obama is all for inciting a mob against the evil rich who are currently funding this unsustainable spending spree that has intensified more under the short two years, though it seems much longer, of Obama's presidency than it has under any other administration.

Record monthly deficit spending was reached back in March and has continued at $200 billion a month. The US Federal Government spends $200 billion more a month than it takes in revenue, and Obama wants everyone to believe the problem is the rich aren't paying their fair share .

But we're told that cutting deficit spending will damage the economy. That is the justification for this absurd situation: fixing it will hurt the economy; as if continuing in this manner is going to have anything but an apocalyptic outcome .

Americans have become desensitized to the constant cries of crisis that Obama has used to achieve the entirety of his legislative agenda, it isn't working anymore.

I am all for fixing Loop holes. However one of the ways people who have money avoid taxes is by making charitable Contributions. I myself do not consider that a loop hole, and I know some of the "tax the rich crowd" does.

I am of the mind set that 90% of the time. Private Charities are a much more efficient means of providing Aid to those who need, than the US government. I don't want to see changes in the tax code that lead to a dramatic drop in Charitable contributions.

And you have every right to believe the way you do and also to work towards that aim. That is one of the things that is so great about our country.

I don't necessarily believe that it's more efficient, but if you have some data on it I would love to see it. I actually enjoy doing research, but wouldn't know where to start as I'm just not that motivated. (chuckle)

 

[Susan45]

Some have implied or suggested that people who do not owe federal income tax are “freeloaders” who don’t have a “stake in the system” and that making them pay federal income taxes would improve the tax code.

Income Tax Historical background

"To raise revenue to fund the Civil War, the income tax was introduced in the United States with the Revenue Act of 1861.[1] It was a flat tax of 3% on annual income above $800. The following year, this was replaced with a graduated tax of 3-5% on income above $600 in the Revenue Act of 1862, which specified a termination of income taxation in 1866. The Socialist Labor Party advocated a graduated income tax in 1887.[2] The Populist Party "demanded a graduated income tax" in its 1892 platform.[3] The Populist Party, led by William Jennings Bryan, advocated the income tax law passed in 1894,[4] and proposed an income tax in its 1908 platform.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock_v._Farmers'_Loan_&_Trust_Co.

.

So? what's your point?

 

[Big Fitz]

Some have implied or suggested that people who do not owe federal income tax are “freeloaders” who don’t have a “stake in the system” and that making them pay federal income taxes would improve the tax code.

Income Tax Historical background

"To raise revenue to fund the Civil War, the income tax was introduced in the United States with the Revenue Act of 1861.[1] It was a flat tax of 3% on annual income above $800. The following year, this was replaced with a graduated tax of 3-5% on income above $600 in the Revenue Act of 1862, which specified a termination of income taxation in 1866. The Socialist Labor Party advocated a graduated income tax in 1887.[2] The Populist Party "demanded a graduated income tax" in its 1892 platform.[3] The Populist Party, led by William Jennings Bryan, advocated the income tax law passed in 1894,[4] and proposed an income tax in its 1908 platform.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock_v._Farmers'_Loan_&_Trust_Co.

.

So? what's your point?

It was that 'whooshing' sound over your head.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Some have implied or suggested that people who do not owe federal income tax are “freeloaders” who don’t have a “stake in the system” and that making them pay federal income taxes would improve the tax code.

Income Tax Historical background

"To raise revenue to fund the Civil War, the income tax was introduced in the United States with the Revenue Act of 1861.[1] It was a flat tax of 3% on annual income above $800. The following year, this was replaced with a graduated tax of 3-5% on income above $600 in the Revenue Act of 1862, which specified a termination of income taxation in 1866. The Socialist Labor Party advocated a graduated income tax in 1887.[2] The Populist Party "demanded a graduated income tax" in its 1892 platform.[3] The Populist Party, led by William Jennings Bryan, advocated the income tax law passed in 1894,[4] and proposed an income tax in its 1908 platform.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock_v._Farmers'_Loan_&_Trust_Co.

.

Like I said the other day, we used to raise taxes to pay for wars. When we stopped doing that around 1980, that's when our fiscal problems really took off.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. We have 51% not paying income tax now. Every time the GOP has cut taxes, that number has increased.

2. The modus operandi of the GOP is to cut taxes every time they have the power to do so

3. If the GOP has the power in the future, that number will go from 51 to 61 to 71, etc., etc.

 

[thereisnospoon]

We should have a pure flat rate tax on all personal income with no deductions.

from dollar one or should there be an exemption up to a certain level?
I have been back and forth on this.
I would like to see lower to middle income people able to exempt a significant portion of their income.
In the long run it does no one any good, government included, to be taxing individuals that earn say $30k per year or married couples that make less than $50k per year.
Above that ....what 15% straight up?

 

[Susan45]

US Constitution

Article 1

Section 7 - Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto

All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

I went ahead and posted all the powers of congress since I'm not sure many people know what is in it. But taxation is right in the Constitution, straight from our forefathers.

It was not seen as stealing back then and it's is very far out today.

 

[Susan45]

1. We have 51% not paying income tax now. Every time the GOP has cut taxes, that number has increased.

2. The modus operandi of the GOP is to cut taxes every time they have the power to do so

3. If the GOP has the power in the future, that number will go from 51 to 61 to 71, etc., etc.

NY, that 51% figure is bogus. If you want me to I will repost the true numbers.

 

[Susan45]

Income Tax Historical background

"To raise revenue to fund the Civil War, the income tax was introduced in the United States with the Revenue Act of 1861.[1] It was a flat tax of 3% on annual income above $800. The following year, this was replaced with a graduated tax of 3-5% on income above $600 in the Revenue Act of 1862, which specified a termination of income taxation in 1866. The Socialist Labor Party advocated a graduated income tax in 1887.[2] The Populist Party "demanded a graduated income tax" in its 1892 platform.[3] The Populist Party, led by William Jennings Bryan, advocated the income tax law passed in 1894,[4] and proposed an income tax in its 1908 platform.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock_v._Farmers'_Loan_&_Trust_Co.

.

So? what's your point?

It was that 'whooshing' sound over your head.

Ohhhhh...good one Fitz. Does that make you the big dog on this page?

I would prefer discussing facts but I am amused by the insults you are using instead.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. We have 51% not paying income tax now. Every time the GOP has cut taxes, that number has increased.

2. The modus operandi of the GOP is to cut taxes every time they have the power to do so

3. If the GOP has the power in the future, that number will go from 51 to 61 to 71, etc., etc.

NY, that 51% figure is bogus. If you want me to I will repost the true numbers.

The exact number is not relevant to my excellent point.

 

[Big Fitz]

So? what's your point?

It was that 'whooshing' sound over your head.

Ohhhhh...good one Fitz. Does that make you the big dog on this page?

I would prefer discussing facts but I am amused by the insults you are using instead.

a fact was dropped on you and you looked at it like it was alien to you. I suppose that makes you the intellectual one?

 

[Susan45]

We should have a pure flat rate tax on all personal income with no deductions.

from dollar one or should there be an exemption up to a certain level?
I have been back and forth on this.
I would like to see lower to middle income people able to exempt a significant portion of their income.
In the long run it does no one any good, government included, to be taxing individuals that earn say $30k per year or married couples that make less than $50k per year.
Above that ....what 15% straight up?

What I would like to see is everyone that can work earn as high a salary as possible and then we can all pay taxes together. I don't know enough about the numbers to really get into that discussion but the more people that have jobs, the less the gov't will pay out and the more revenue will come in. That seems like a winner to me. Thoughts?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The Tax Foundation - Number of Americans Outside the Income Tax System Continues to Grow

Report after report has shown a growing majority, conservatively at 40%, of American workers pay no income tax, ZERO. Meanwhile the top 10% of American income earners fund 70% of total federal income taxes.

Where is the shared sacrifice?

If those who are paying zero income tax were to contribute 'their fair share' perhaps it would solve this current financial situation--for a few months at least. But it isn't politically expedient to go after people who don't pay taxes.

This is a result of tax credits, loopholes if you will, that allow median income earners to pay virtually nothing in income tax. Obama is all for inciting a mob against the evil rich who are currently funding this unsustainable spending spree that has intensified more under the short two years, though it seems much longer, of Obama's presidency than it has under any other administration.

Record monthly deficit spending was reached back in March and has continued at $200 billion a month. The US Federal Government spends $200 billion more a month than it takes in revenue, and Obama wants everyone to believe the problem is the rich aren't paying their fair share .

But we're told that cutting deficit spending will damage the economy. That is the justification for this absurd situation: fixing it will hurt the economy; as if continuing in this manner is going to have anything but an apocalyptic outcome .

Americans have become desensitized to the constant cries of crisis that Obama has used to achieve the entirety of his legislative agenda, it isn't working anymore.

I am 58 years old--and have paid federal income tax ALL OF MY LIFE. When I was 19 years old--I worked at a bank--making $2.25 per hour--and I paid FEDERAL INCOME TAX. I got married--opened up our own small business and paid FEDERAL INCOME TAX.

Why in the HELL--anyone gets out of paying federal income tax--regardless of their income--is beyond me.

In fact--the "earned income tax credit"--where one doesn't pay any federal federal income tax what-so-ever yet- still-gets a government check amounting to $1000.00 is beyond rational comprehension. Who in the Freak came up with that one? We the taxpayers of this country give them a CHECK--because these losers made a BUCK.

I really think that this is the argument the Republicans need to use to counter the class envy rhetoric Obama is employing.

I think the majority of Americans agree with your sentiment, hell I know I do. I didn't believe it was right when I got money back after I hadn't paid any taxes, but I took it.

The whole shared sacrifice thing is something Americans do believe, and a lot of Americans know deep down that they aren't giving their fair share.

There is no such thing as "shared sacrifice"...First off, to "share" is voluntary.
And as a matter of fact, "giving" ( the term you used later in your post) is also voluntary.
What part of taxation is voluntary? When politicians decide they need more money, do they ASK for it in the hopes that Americans "share" or want to "give" more of their earnings?
No. The government simply makes a decision which ends up in the signing of a piece of paper that says government has a right to TAKE from us that which belongs to us.
There is no sharing or giving.
This term"shared sacrifice is just progressive new speak which is designed to make people feel guilty about their achievements. Screw that shit.

 

[Susan45]

It was that 'whooshing' sound over your head.

Ohhhhh...good one Fitz. Does that make you the big dog on this page?

I would prefer discussing facts but I am amused by the insults you are using instead.

a fact was dropped on you and you looked at it like it was alien to you. I suppose that makes you the intellectual one?

Here is that "fact" that was dropped on me.

Income Tax Historical background

"To raise revenue to fund the Civil War, the income tax was introduced in the United States with the Revenue Act of 1861.[1] It was a flat tax of 3% on annual income above $800. The following year, this was replaced with a graduated tax of 3-5% on income above $600 in the Revenue Act of 1862, which specified a termination of income taxation in 1866. The Socialist Labor Party advocated a graduated income tax in 1887.[2] The Populist Party "demanded a graduated income tax" in its 1892 platform.[3] The Populist Party, led by William Jennings Bryan, advocated the income tax law passed in 1894,[4] and proposed an income tax in its 1908 platform.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock...n_&_Trust_Co.

And my answer was so? Was something else called for?

 

[Susan45]

1. We have 51% not paying income tax now. Every time the GOP has cut taxes, that number has increased.

2. The modus operandi of the GOP is to cut taxes every time they have the power to do so

3. If the GOP has the power in the future, that number will go from 51 to 61 to 71, etc., etc.

NY, that 51% figure is bogus. If you want me to I will repost the true numbers.

The exact number is not relevant to my excellent point.

You're right, your point was excellent. Thanks. I just hate to see that number thrown around since it's another RW myth.

 

[Susan45]

I am 58 years old--and have paid federal income tax ALL OF MY LIFE. When I was 19 years old--I worked at a bank--making $2.25 per hour--and I paid FEDERAL INCOME TAX. I got married--opened up our own small business and paid FEDERAL INCOME TAX.

Why in the HELL--anyone gets out of paying federal income tax--regardless of their income--is beyond me.

In fact--the "earned income tax credit"--where one doesn't pay any federal federal income tax what-so-ever yet- still-gets a government check amounting to $1000.00 is beyond rational comprehension. Who in the Freak came up with that one? We the taxpayers of this country give them a CHECK--because these losers made a BUCK.

I really think that this is the argument the Republicans need to use to counter the class envy rhetoric Obama is employing.

I think the majority of Americans agree with your sentiment, hell I know I do. I didn't believe it was right when I got money back after I hadn't paid any taxes, but I took it.

The whole shared sacrifice thing is something Americans do believe, and a lot of Americans know deep down that they aren't giving their fair share.

There is no such thing as "shared sacrifice"...First off, to "share" is voluntary.
And as a matter of fact, "giving" ( the term you used later in your post) is also voluntary.
What part of taxation is voluntary? When politicians decide they need more money, do they ASK for it in the hopes that Americans "share" or want to "give" more of their earnings?
No. The government simply makes a decision which ends up in the signing of a piece of paper that says government has a right to TAKE from us that which belongs to us.
There is no sharing or giving.
This term"shared sacrifice is just progressive new speak which is designed to make people feel guilty about their achievements. Screw that shit.

I guess it's just congress living up to their constitutional mandate, that they are responsible for taxation. The constitution doesn't mention the public having to ask.

 

[NYcarbineer]

We should have a pure flat rate tax on all personal income with no deductions.

from dollar one or should there be an exemption up to a certain level?
I have been back and forth on this.
I would like to see lower to middle income people able to exempt a significant portion of their income.
In the long run it does no one any good, government included, to be taxing individuals that earn say $30k per year or married couples that make less than $50k per year.
Above that ....what 15% straight up?

It's all idle conversation. There will be no major tax reform with the kind of governments we elect.

They've been in all out war of the stupid debt ceiling for how long now? You're going to get these people to come together on a historical overhaul of US tax policy?

**** no.