Fifty Years After Saigon: Remembering the Nobility of a Betrayed Cause

At least two million in Vietnam, and that isn't counting Laos and Cambodia.
Liar

Most of the causalties were inflicted by the north especially on civilians. The communists STARTED the war

You REALLY need to be silent and learn the truth of history from people like me YOUR BETTERS
 
The PLAF yes - the PLA no, for good reasons. So Mao send the People's Volunteer Army (PVA) of which not even half were from the PLA and only armed with infantry weapons and light AA and some rare artillery units - their Unit leaders were from the PLA.
All the heavy weaponry was kept by the PLA. So the PVA acted against the American aggression in the guise of the UN.

I know the FACTS from dozens of Chinese-Korea veterans.

As for WIA - I wouldn't know - as for KIA less then 200,000, of which half did not die due to combat.
The “volunteer army” WAS the PLA. Every member was a combat veteran of the civil war. Naming it that was a transparent legal fiction to keep the UN from attacking China proper. As for the armament, the PLA was a light infantry army at the time, it had few heavy weapons and most of its tanks were either captured Japanese or American tanks that survived the civil war.

As for American aggression, it didn’t exist. North Korea launched an unprovoked invasion of the lightly armed South Korea. The Chinese launched an invasion when it looked to the Chinese like the UN forces were going to push the remains of the NKPA across the Yalu into China.
 
Liar

Most of the causalties were inflicted by the north especially on civilians. The communists STARTED the war

You REALLY need to be silent and learn the truth of history from people like me YOUR BETTERS
You need to be silent and in the meantime learn some History, you are just a apologist for Colonialism and Imperialism, i really thought people with your mindset had passed their sell by date, clearly not which is very depressing because you have not learned a damn thing or become civilized over the centuries,and you will never be my better.
 
Mai Lai is all you have because it was an isolated incident were a few hundred were murdered.

You have no empathy for the THOSUANDS slaughtered by the north in Hue city alone

Gipper is an uneducated fool like you who knows nothing about this history you are spewing proven PROPAGANDA
Mai lai was far from a isolated incident it's just that the US were better at covering them up, as for Hue the battle was part of the Tet offensive and involved intense urban combat with high casualties on both sides and destruction of the City, and yes some people were executed, that's what collaborators can expect in war, i compare the Hue battle with the battle for Mariupol in Ukraine, but the Western media report that battle as something quite different, that is a brutal Russian attack on civilians which is bollocks.
 
Wrong you idiotic ************. They came from NORTH Vietnam and started and aggressive war of terror invading SOUTH vietnam.

I never said gthey were democratic but neiher was north and Minh was not justified in launching an invasion of communist expansion
South Vietnam was never a separate Country, it was meant to be a temporary measure until elections could be held Nationwide in Vietnam to unify the Country as agreed at the conference in Geneva, of course it never took place because the US and Southern Regime knew the people would have supported Ho and unified the Country, your problem is you are talking to someone who knows what they are talking about, unlike you with your brainwashed mind.
 
South Vietnam was never a separate Country, it was meant to be a temporary measure until elections could be held Nationwide in Vietnam to unify the Country as agreed at the conference in Geneva, of course it never took place because the US and Southern Regime knew the people would have supported Ho and unified the Country, your problem is you are talking to someone who knows what they are talking about, unlike you with your brainwashed mind.
Folks, we have a genuine, unreconstructed, proud Communist here who is literally repeating long-debunked Communist propaganda about the Vietnam War. A few facts:

-- The nationwide election did not occur because every rational person--from John F. Kennedy to Barry Goldwater to the New York Times editorial board to the dovish British government--recognized that North Vietnam's tyrants would never allow a valid election among their people.

-- South Vietnam was recognized as a sovereign nation by 88 countries. In contrast, North Vietnam was never recognized by more than 60 countries, and many of those countries only did so under coercion because they were under Soviet or Red Chinese control and really had no choice.

-- The overwhelming majority of the people in South Vietnam certainly considered South Vietnam to be a legitimate country and wanted nothing to do with Communist rule, as they proved during the 1968 Tet Offensive.

-- When the people in North Vietnam had a 300-day window of opportunity to migrate to South Vietnam from July 1954 to May 1955, nearly 1 million did so, an astounding 6% of North Vietnam's population, and many more would have left but were prevented from doing so by the Hanoi regime, in violation of the 1954 Geneva Accords.

So this terror bombing never happened? behave yourself idiot.
"Terror bombing"?! That's absurd Communist propaganda. Fewer than 2,000 civilians were killed in all the massive bombing raids in December 1972. Why? Because American planners went to extraordinary lengths to avoid hitting civilian areas.

Do you know who Adlai Stevenson was? He was the liberals' liberal. To this day, he is a liberal hero and icon. He was the Democrats' presidential nominee in 1952 and 1956, losing twice by huge margins to Eisenhower. He was widely known for being a "peace at any price" type. You should read what even he said in 1964 about the vicious, inhumane tactics the Communists were using in South Vietnam:

Adlai Stevenson and the Vietnam War: A Stirring Reminder
 
Folks, we have a genuine, unreconstructed, proud Communist here who is literally repeating long-debunked Communist propaganda about the Vietnam War. A few facts:

-- The nationwide election did not occur because every rational person--from John F. Kennedy to Barry Goldwater to the New York Times editorial board to the dovish British government--recognized that North Vietnam's tyrants would never allow a valid election among their people.

-- South Vietnam was recognized as a sovereign nation by 88 countries. In contrast, North Vietnam was never recognized by more than 60 countries, and many of those countries only did so under coercion because they were under Soviet or Red Chinese control and really had no choice.

-- The overwhelming majority of the people in South Vietnam certainly considered South Vietnam to be a legitimate country and wanted nothing to do with Communist rule, as they proved during the 1968 Tet Offensive.

-- When the people in North Vietnam had a 300-day window of opportunity to migrate to South Vietnam from July 1954 to May 1955, nearly 1 million did so, an astounding 6% of North Vietnam's population, and many more would have left but were prevented from doing so by the Hanoi regime, in violation of the 1954 Geneva Accords.


"Terror bombing"?! That's absurd Communist propaganda. Fewer than 2,000 civilians were killed in all the massive bombing raids in December 1972. Why? Because American planners went to extraordinary lengths to avoid hitting civilian areas.

Do you know who Adlai Stevenson was? He was the liberals' liberal. To this day, he is a liberal hero and icon. He was the Democrats' presidential nominee in 1952 and 1956, losing twice by huge margins to Eisenhower. He was widely known for being a "peace at any price" type. You should read what even he said in 1964 about the vicious, inhumane tactics the Communists were using in South Vietnam:

Adlai Stevenson and the Vietnam War: A Stirring Reminder
Good excuse blaming the North for something the South and their US puppet masters sabotaged saying we didn't take part in a election because the North would never allow it. 😂
 
Liar

Most of the causalties were inflicted by the north especially on civilians. The communists STARTED the war

You REALLY need to be silent and learn the truth of history from people like me YOUR BETTERS
You’re an ignorant fool.
 

Fifty Years After Saigon: Remembering the Nobility of a Betrayed Cause

We must remember not just South Vietnam's fall, but why it fell.

30 Apr 2025 ~~ By Rod D. Martin

Fifty years ago, April 30, 1975, the world watched in horror and disbelief as the last American helicopter lifted off from the rooftop of our embassy in Saigon. South Vietnam had fallen in the manner of Ernest Hemingway, “first gradually, then suddenly”: a decades-long war, a relative peace, and then a mad dash by the North Vietnamese Army that consumed the country in less than a month.
What followed was not peace, but darkness. The swift collapse of South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos (turns out the Domino Theory was true) brought the subjugation of millions, and the opening act of a Communist bloodbath across Southeast Asia. At least a million were sent to the “re-education camps” in Vietnam alone. Half a million were murdered. Another two million fled this brutal night by sea, on rafts wholly unsuited for the tumultuous ocean, in wild hope that an American aircraft carrier might happen upon them. Close to half a million died in the water.
The tragedy was simply breathtaking. And horribly, horribly unnecessary.
~Snip~
None of this had to happen. This was not the end of a war, but the culmination of betrayal — a betrayal of an ally, of a cause, and of the very principles America had defended with precious blood and treasure for eight long years.
The received wisdom is that Vietnam was a mistake, a misguided war fought in the wrong place at the wrong time. That narrative is false. The Vietnam War was part of a noble, epic struggle — the same struggle that won the Cold War and saved the whole world from a similar fate. It was a just effort to stop Communist totalitarianism and genocide from consuming yet another corner of the globe. South Vietnam was not a hopeless case. It was a fledgling republic, striving to build a free society in the shadow of Marxist tyranny and under constant assault from within and without. Its people fought with courage and resolve for more than two decades, first with our help.
~Snip~
But with Nixon forced from office, Congress fell into the hands of men more concerned with leftist politics than principle. Nixon won 49 states in 1972. In the aftermath of Watergate, in 1974, Democrats won overwhelming Congressional majorities: almost 300 House seats, and a filibuster-proof 61 in the Senate.
This radicalized majority, driven by post-Watergate bloodlust, slashed military aid to South Vietnam by over 75%, prohibited any American military response to a massive Soviet rearmament of the North, and watched coldly as North Vietnam violated every term of the accords. They wouldn’t even send our allies tires for their Jeeps or gas for their tanks.
Deprived of ammunition, fuel, and the will of its ally, South Vietnam collapsed — not because it lacked heart, but because it was abandoned, by the same Democrat Party that had sent America’s sons to die there just ten years before.
This is the reality the left refuses to confront even half a century later. The fall of Saigon was not inevitable. It was engineered in Washington more than Hanoi. It was not a military defeat — it was a political surrender, the first of many. Over the next five years, Democrats handed 26 countries to the Communists. That’s on top of Carter’s betrayal of the Shah of Iran.
Richard Nixon understood this. Years after, in No More Vietnams, he laid out the real lessons of that conflict, lessons we ignore at our peril. He did not argue that we should never fight again. Quite the contrary. He argued that when America fights, it must fight to win — and that when we make commitments, we must keep them.
~Snip~
Second, we must never send our soldiers to fight unless the cause directly serves vital American interests. In this, Nixon prefigured Trump. But once engaged, we must not allow domestic politics to undercut our efforts. Unity at home is essential. Leadership must resist the temptation to bow to the transient winds of public opinion or the distortions of a hostile press.
Third, America must support its allies fully or not at all. Partial support, tepid commitments, and shifting loyalties invite chaos and death. South Vietnam stood ready to defend itself — with our help. Once we withdrew that help, we ensured their destruction. Nixon rightly saw that as an even greater moral failure than a strategic one.
And fourth, peace is only possible through strength. The idea that we can withdraw from the world, that we can turn our backs on aggression and be left in peace, is a fantasy. Weakness invites conflict. Only credible deterrence, backed by the willingness to act, can maintain stability and peace.
These lessons, learned at tragic cost, should have guided us forward. But they were forgotten. In 2021, Joe Biden gave us a second Saigon, this time in Kabul.

Commentary:
The media was always gave the impression the American military was fleeing South Vietnam in a chaotic panic when it wasn’t even there since South Vietnam fell years after we left, or that Americans were burning that little girl with Napalm although the Americans weren’t involved in the incident, or that all our soldiers did was suffer wounds and defeatism and using Zippos on thatch huts, or that the VC were dominating us and our installations during Tet.
South Vietnam fell because the double-minded and weak Democrat Leftist leaders in America had no commitment or intention of doing what it would take to actually win the war.
Just as Nixon and Ford were minor players in LBJ’s tragic mistake, others have mentioned the part the Democrats as the majority in Congress played.
No brains in the politicians going in, no spines to support our friends in their need to survive. Joey Xi Baidung and his handlers did the same in Afghanistan and to the Ukraine egging it on, and what will happen next with poor leadership there.
Bush '43' should have destroyed every last Taliban resource in Afghanistan. Make the bricks bounce. This could have been done solely by air power and special forces strikes.
W’s great mistake was going the LBJ route: He tried to win the hearts and minds of the population - a population that was stuck in the 8th century, and brainwashed by death cult religion.
That was a fool’s errand, made even worse by his invasion of Iraq. That upset the whole applecart in the region.
I rank W among the three worst US presidents ever. Joey Xi Baidung continues to run first. The other is Woody Wilson.
And now we sell their clothes that they produce at Kohl's.
 
South Vietnam was never a separate Country, it was meant to be a temporary measure until elections could be held Nationwide in Vietnam to unify the Country as agreed at the conference in Geneva, of course it never took place because the US and Southern Regime knew the people would have supported Ho and unified the Country, your problem is you are talking to someone who knows what they are talking about, unlike you with your brainwashed mind.
Yes it was you ignorant shit head. The two vietnamas were seperate kingdoms for centuries.

It never took place because Minh cancelled elections and then attacked the south. North Vietnam was not a legitimate nation and Ming sieczed power illegally and started the war

I DO know what i am tralking about you on the other hand are a ******* fool regurgitating propaganda
 
Mai lai was far from a isolated incident it's just that the US were better at covering them up, as for Hue the battle was part of the Tet offensive and involved intense urban combat with high casualties on both sides and destruction of the City, and yes some people were executed, that's what collaborators can expect in war, i compare the Hue battle with the battle for Mariupol in Ukraine, but the Western media report that battle as something quite different, that is a brutal Russian attack on civilians which is bollocks.
Mai lai was an isolated criminal incident. The US could not cover up such acts when the media had open access to the whole country.

The thousands of civilains massacred with deliberate intent by the NVA were not collateral nor were they collaborators they were innocents.

Your beloved communist aggressors were genocidal the US fougt to protect those people
 
You need to be silent and in the meantime learn some History, you are just a apologist for Colonialism and Imperialism, i really thought people with your mindset had passed their sell by date, clearly not which is very depressing because you have not learned a damn thing or become civilized over the centuries,and you will never be my better.
I am educating you so shut up and learn boy

The North were the expansionist aggressors

I am stating facts yoiu are stating revisionist fiction

I AM your better boy. People like me created civlization you hate it and seek to destroy it.

People like you are doomed to fail
 
15th post
I am educating you so shut up and learn boy

The North were the expansionist aggressors

I am stating facts yoiu are stating revisionist fiction

I AM your better boy. People like me created civlization you hate it and seek to destroy it.

People like you are doomed to fail
People like you are not civilized and i doubt you can be civilized there is something in your DNA that prevents it boy.
 
People like you are not civilized and i doubt you can be civilized there is something in your DNA that prevents it boy.
I am civiliezed it is people like you who hate civilization and seek to bring it down

you know nothjing of history and you are posting lies in defense of histories greatest evil

THAT is uncivilized
 
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