Fifty Years After Saigon: Remembering the Nobility of a Betrayed Cause

People like you are not civilized and i doubt you can be civilized there is something in your DNA that prevents it boy.
Not only is he uncivilized, he’s failed to learn anything beyond 6th grade government school.

He still believes Oswald acted alone and 19 Arabs who couldn’t fly a kite did 9/11.

You can’t fix stupid!
 
Good excuse blaming the North for something the South and their US puppet masters sabotaged saying we didn't take part in a election because the North would never allow it. 😂
What planet do you live on? Do you have any clue about the murderous, savage thugs who ruled North Vietnam? If they prevented at least 1 million North Vietnamese from going to South Vietnam during the 300-day window in 1954-1955, in violation of the Geneva Accords, how can you claim with a straight face that they would have held an honest election?

Are you aware that Hanoi's tyrants killed tens of thousands of North Vietnamese to maintain their grip on power? Is this news to you? If it is, I have to wonder what have you read about the Vietnam War.

If you want to get some idea of the murderous, vicious Stalinist police state that North Vietnam was, read Dr. Lien-Hang T. Nguyen's highly acclaimed 2012 book Hanoi's War: An International History of the War for Peace in Vietnam.

In contrast, South Vietnam, though hardly a perfect democracy, allowed considerable freedom of the press for South Vietnamese journalists, allowed opposition parties to form and hold rallies, allowed private schools to operate, tolerated a substantial amount of public criticism of the government, did not impose confiscatory taxation on the people, rarely interfered with book publishing, allowed genuine local elections, had a legitimate justice system that usually treated suspects fairly (unless they were suspected of aiding the Viet Cong), allowed a large degree of free enterprise and private property ownership, and respected religious freedom.

Read Dr. Keith W. Taylor's book Voices from the Second Republic of South Vietnam (1967–1975). Dr. Taylor, a professor of Vietnamese history at Cornell University, is the world's leading expert on South Vietnam.

Do you know who Joan Baez was? She was a famous singer and an ardent anti-war activist during the Vietnam War. Yet, when she became aware of the reign of terror that Hanoi was imposing on the Vietnamese people, especially those in southern Vietnam, she penned an open letter to Hanoi's leaders in 1979 condemning them for their severe human rights abuses. The letter was co-signed by dozens of other former anti-war activists who were dismayed at the "cruelty, violence, and oppression" being imposed by the Communist regime.
 
What planet do you live on? Do you have any clue about the murderous, savage thugs who ruled North Vietnam? If they prevented at least 1 million North Vietnamese from going to South Vietnam during the 300-day window in 1954-1955, in violation of the Geneva Accords, how can you claim with a straight face that they would have held an honest election?

Are you aware that Hanoi's tyrants killed tens of thousands of North Vietnamese to maintain their grip on power? Is this news to you? If it is, I have to wonder what have you read about the Vietnam War.

If you want to get some idea of the murderous, vicious Stalinist police state that North Vietnam was, read Dr. Lien-Hang T. Nguyen's highly acclaimed 2012 book Hanoi's War: An International History of the War for Peace in Vietnam.

In contrast, South Vietnam, though hardly a perfect democracy, allowed considerable freedom of the press for South Vietnamese journalists, allowed opposition parties to form and hold rallies, allowed private schools to operate, tolerated a substantial amount of public criticism of the government, did not impose confiscatory taxation on the people, rarely interfered with book publishing, allowed genuine local elections, had a legitimate justice system that usually treated suspects fairly (unless they were suspected of aiding the Viet Cong), allowed a large degree of free enterprise and private property ownership, and respected religious freedom.

Read Dr. Keith W. Taylor's book Voices from the Second Republic of South Vietnam (1967–1975). Dr. Taylor, a professor of Vietnamese history at Cornell University, is the world's leading expert on South Vietnam.

Do you know who Joan Baez was? She was a famous singer and an ardent anti-war activist during the Vietnam War. Yet, when she became aware of the reign of terror that Hanoi was imposing on the Vietnamese people, especially those in southern Vietnam, she penned an open letter to Hanoi's leaders in 1979 condemning them for their severe human rights abuses. The letter was co-signed by dozens of other former anti-war activists who were dismayed at the "cruelty, violence, and oppression" being imposed by the Communist regime.
Well we know what planet you are on, remember this,Jane Fonda went to see first hand the result of your terror bombing in Hanoi.
1777479600347.webp
 
I am civiliezed it is people like you who hate civilization and seek to bring it down

you know nothjing of history and you are posting lies in defense of histories greatest evil

THAT is uncivilized
Most people in the World have had a belly full of your civilization, just look at Gaza or whats left of it and Lebanon.
 
Putting aside the conflict, it is very interesting how Vietnam has evolved since. The level of capitalism now would be shocking to someone in 1975.
 
Putting aside the conflict, it is very interesting how Vietnam has evolved since. The level of capitalism now would be shocking to someone in 1975.
The Communists running Vietnam were smart enough to read the handwriting on the wall that said Communism ALWAYS fails.
 
Most people in the World have had a belly full of your civilization, just look at Gaza or whats left of it and Lebanon.
No they have not

Most people want to be part of it

That would be israel not my civilization.

You are so out of touch is is sad
 
Not only is he uncivilized, he’s failed to learn anything beyond 6th grade government school.

He still believes Oswald acted alone and 19 Arabs who couldn’t fly a kite did 9/11.

You can’t fix stupid!
I proved you wrong on both of those counts and every other argument

You are so ******* stupid you believe mmovies are real

EVerything you vomit up ceomes from hollywood.

You ARE the stupid one boy and you know I am right

Grow the **** up and deal with it
 
The Communists running Vietnam were smart enough to read the handwriting on the wall that said Communism ALWAYS fails.
Whatever they decided it was their choice not French Colonialists or American Imperialists, that is the point.
 
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Well we know what planet you are on, remember this,Jane Fonda went to see first hand the result of your terror bombing in Hanoi.
Umm, I guess you missed the news that Jane Fonda has repeatedly apologized for her Hanoi trip. Among other things, the North Vietnamese showed her damaged areas that had not actually been bombed in over a year. Hanoi was massively bombed for several months in Operations Linebacker I and Linebacker II, from May through October 1972 and then from 18-29 December 1972, yet fewer than 2,000 civilians were killed. All the targets were valid military targets. We should be proud that our efforts to minimize civilian casualties resulted in fewer than 2,000 civilian deaths in nearly seven months of intense bombing.

The South Vietnamese government was far more legitimate than the Hanoi regime.

Following the partition of Vietnam mandated by the 1954 Geneva Accords, South Vietnam held elections for a constituent assembly in March 1956. The assembly drew up a constitution and then sat as a national assembly until legislative elections under the new constitution were held in 1959. Three major parties that supported Ngo Dinh Diem won two-thirds of the seats in the 1956 elections, while opposition parties won one-third of the seats (Keith W. Taylor, A History of the Vietnamese, Cambridge University Press, 2013, p. 562).

North Vietnam's tyrants declined to hold elections after the 1954 Geneva Accords partition. They did not hold legislative elections and did not hold constituent elections to draft a new constitution. No, Ho Chi Minh and his gang preferred to rely on the severely rigged legislative "elections" held eight years earlier in 1946. In the 1946 elections, the ballots were not secret but were marked in the presence of Communist "aides" who were "to help comrades who had difficulty in making out their ballots." In addition, to ensure Communist domination in the sham legislature, Ho Chi Minh and his thugs directed Communist partisans and Viet Minh members to run for seats without disclosing their affiliations, just in case the Communist "aides" at the polling stations failed to induce enough voters to give the Communists a decisive margin of victory.

In September 1959, South Vietnam held elections for the National Assembly. The election was open, was observed by numerous international observers and journalists, and had minimal manipulation. The pro-Diem parties lost 20 seats, going from 75 seats to 55 seats, while opposition parties gained 31 seats, going from 35 seats to 66 seats. Diem accepted the election results and opened the new legislature shortly before his death (A History of the Vietnamese, p. 588).

This was unheard of in North Vietnam. There were no genuine opposition parties in the Hanoi regime. No politician or private citizen in North Vietnam dared to publicly criticize the regime because they knew they would soon be visited by the police or the military and either killed, or hauled off to prison, or severely fined, depending on the degree of their criticism. Similarly, no newspaper in North Vietnam would voice any criticism of the regime.

In contrast, numerous South Vietnamese newspapers stridently criticized Diem and subsequent government leaders. Similarly, opposition party leaders frequently voiced public criticism of policies of the South Vietnamese government.

South Vietnam was by no means a perfect democracy, but it was far more open, humane, and democratic than North Vietnam.
 
Umm, I guess you missed the news that Jane Fonda has repeatedly apologized for her Hanoi trip. Among other things, the North Vietnamese showed her damaged areas that had not actually been bombed in over a year. Hanoi was massively bombed for several months in Operations Linebacker I and Linebacker II, from May through October 1972 and then from 18-29 December 1972, yet fewer than 2,000 civilians were killed. All the targets were valid military targets. We should be proud that our efforts to minimize civilian casualties resulted in fewer than 2,000 civilian deaths in nearly seven months of intense bombing.

The South Vietnamese government was far more legitimate than the Hanoi regime.

Following the partition of Vietnam mandated by the 1954 Geneva Accords, South Vietnam held elections for a constituent assembly in March 1956. The assembly drew up a constitution and then sat as a national assembly until legislative elections under the new constitution were held in 1959. Three major parties that supported Ngo Dinh Diem won two-thirds of the seats in the 1956 elections, while opposition parties won one-third of the seats (Keith W. Taylor, A History of the Vietnamese, Cambridge University Press, 2013, p. 562).

North Vietnam's tyrants declined to hold elections after the 1954 Geneva Accords partition. They did not hold legislative elections and did not hold constituent elections to draft a new constitution. No, Ho Chi Minh and his gang preferred to rely on the severely rigged legislative "elections" held eight years earlier in 1946. In the 1946 elections, the ballots were not secret but were marked in the presence of Communist "aides" who were "to help comrades who had difficulty in making out their ballots." In addition, to ensure Communist domination in the sham legislature, Ho Chi Minh and his thugs directed Communist partisans and Viet Minh members to run for seats without disclosing their affiliations, just in case the Communist "aides" at the polling stations failed to induce enough voters to give the Communists a decisive margin of victory.

In September 1959, South Vietnam held elections for the National Assembly. The election was open, was observed by numerous international observers and journalists, and had minimal manipulation. The pro-Diem parties lost 20 seats, going from 75 seats to 55 seats, while opposition parties gained 31 seats, going from 35 seats to 66 seats. Diem accepted the election results and opened the new legislature shortly before his death (A History of the Vietnamese, p. 588).

This was unheard of in North Vietnam. There were no genuine opposition parties in the Hanoi regime. No politician or private citizen in North Vietnam dared to publicly criticize the regime because they knew they would soon be visited by the police or the military and either killed, or hauled off to prison, or severely fined, depending on the degree of their criticism. Similarly, no newspaper in North Vietnam would voice any criticism of the regime.

In contrast, numerous South Vietnamese newspapers stridently criticized Diem and subsequent government leaders. Similarly, opposition party leaders frequently voiced public criticism of policies of the South Vietnamese government.

South Vietnam was by no means a perfect democracy, but it was far more open, humane, and democratic than North Vietnam.
Stop apologizing for naked Colonialism and Imperialism in Vietnam, the Country had to be liberated and it was, get over it.
 
15th post
Stop apologizing for naked Colonialism and Imperialism in Vietnam, the Country had to be liberated and it was, get over it.
Not at the expense of 50,000 servicemen many of whom were enslaved via the draft.
 
Whatever they decided it was their choice not French Colonialists or American Imperialists, that is the point.
It was not THEIR choicee it was imposed on them by Ho Chi Minh.

We were in fact justified in trying to stop that
 
Stop apologizing for naked Colonialism and Imperialism in Vietnam, the Country had to be liberated and it was, get over it.
The RVN wasn't "liberated" it was conquered by a foreign army lavishly equipped and trained by another foreign army at no cost to Hanoi.
 
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