Fifty Years After Saigon: Remembering the Nobility of a Betrayed Cause

[Deadstick]

Fact boy Minh cancelled them and refused to hold any electrions and then invaded a sovereign nation

Stop lying, the Dictator Diem didn't even sign the Geneva accords unlike North Vietnam who did, he refused to take part in any elections instigated by his US puppet masters because they knew they would lose, so the North had to launch the liberation war what other choice was there?

 

[Soupnazi630]

Stop lying, the Dictator Diem didn't even sign the Geneva accords unlike North Vietnam who did, he refused to take part in any elections instigated by his US puppet masters because they knew they would lose, so the North had to launch the liberation war what other choice was there?

Signing the accords is irrelevant

Minh ignrored the accords and never held elections .

The us never instigated any elections. The elections were not on the us to hold or permit or forbid.

the simple fact is the US had no part in it. It was minh who refused to hold them full stop.

He siezed power WITH NO ELECTION and then started the war, It was not a war of liberationit was a war of conquest by the communist north

You know nothing of history

 

[AZrailwhale]

Bollocks!!

No, the North refused to take part in elections NOT supervised by communist countries. The UN elections were to be supervised by a neutral panel.

 

[Zebra]

sad

 

[mikegriffith1]

Speaking of the noble cause of the Vietnam War, I'm in the middle of reading Douglas Niles' excellent book A Noble Cause: American Battlefield Victories in Vietnam (Dutton Caliber, 2015). Drawing on declassified files, among other sources, Niles gives a detailed review of every major American victory in the Vietnam War, from the Battle of Dong Xaoi to the Battle of the Ia Drang Valley to Operation Attleboro to Operation Cedar Falls to the Tet battles to the Battle of Khe Sanh to the Battle of "Hamburger Hill" and many others.

In the case of Operation Attleboro, Niles shows that declassified Communist records reveal that the battle was actually a resounding American victory, whereas at the time it was widely viewed as a costly narrow victory. Also, he does an excellent job of explaining how our disastrous policy of allowing the Communists to have sanctuaries in Cambodia repeatedly enabled them to avoid annihilation and needlessly prolonged the war.

Niles is an unlikely author of a pro-Vietnam War book. He is best known for his success as a game developer and a fantasy author. He created the Dragonlance gaming world and authored the first three Forgotten Realms novels. In around 2010, he became interested in the Vietnam War and spent years doing research for A Noble Cause: American Battlefield Victories in Vietnam.

 

[gipper]

Speaking of the noble cause of the Vietnam War, I'm in the middle of reading Douglas Niles' excellent book A Noble Cause: American Battlefield Victories in Vietnam (Dutton Caliber, 2015). Drawing on declassified files, among other sources, Niles gives a detailed review of every major American victory in the Vietnam War, from the Battle of Dong Xaoi to the Battle of the Ia Drang Valley to Operation Attleboro to Operation Cedar Falls to the Tet battles to the Battle of Khe Sanh to the Battle of "Hamburger Hill" and many others.

In the case of Operation Attleboro, Niles shows that declassified Communist records reveal that the battle was actually a resounding American victory, whereas at the time it was widely viewed as a costly narrow victory. Also, he does an excellent job of explaining how our disastrous policy of allowing the Communists to have sanctuaries in Cambodia repeatedly enabled them to avoid annihilation and needlessly prolonged the war.

Niles is an unlikely author of a pro-Vietnam War book. He is best known for his success as a game developer and a fantasy author. He created the Dragonlance gaming world and authored the first three Forgotten Realms novels. In around 2010, he became interested in the Vietnam War and spent years doing research for A Noble Cause: American Battlefield Victories in Vietnam.

What is his argument that the war was noble?

 

[Deadstick]

There is never anything noble about brutal Imperialist genocide and that was Vietnam, but some people can't accept the US and the Japs and French before them LOST.

 

[Deadstick]

 

[mikegriffith1]

There is never anything noble about brutal Imperialist genocide and that was Vietnam, but some people can't accept the US and the Japs and French before them LOST.

You're still repeating Communist propaganda about the war, I see. Of course, you have no intention of reading Niles' book, or any other book that doesn't smear our noble war effort.

Regarding the video you posted about the "liberation" of Saigon in 1975, I notice it says nothing about the 800,000-plus South Vietnamese who were sent to brutal concentration camps, where the death rate was at least 5%. Nor does it mention the 60,000-some South Vietnamese who were executed after the "liberation." Nor does it mention the widespread starvation and poverty that engulfed southern Vietnam after the Communists took over.

 

[Deadstick]

You're still repeating Communist propaganda about the war, I see. Of course, you have no intention of reading Niles' book, or any other book that doesn't smear our noble war effort.

Regarding the video you posted about the "liberation" of Saigon in 1975, I notice it says nothing about the 800,000-plus South Vietnamese who were sent to brutal concentration camps, where the death rate was at least 5%. Nor does it mention the 60,000-some South Vietnamese who were executed after the "liberation." Nor does it mention the widespread starvation and poverty that engulfed southern Vietnam after the Communists took over.

Many former collaborators and traitors were sent to camps to learn what it means to be a proud Vietnamese and not a Puppet of Colonialists and Imperialists, and who told you 60,000 were executed? what happened to the predicted bloodbath that you clowns said would happen when the NVA entered Saigon? it never happened according to you clowns there would have been mass murder, now today Vietnam is a vibrant Country and independent and you can't stand it.

 

[Soupnazi630]

There is never anything noble about brutal Imperialist genocide and that was Vietnam, but some people can't accept the US and the Japs and French before them LOST.

of course there is

Fighting communism is always a noble cause or idea.

 

[Soupnazi630]

It was conquest not liberation

The aggressors always justify it through lies

 

[Soupnazi630]

Many former collaborators and traitors were sent to camps to learn what it means to be a proud Vietnamese and not a Puppet of Colonialists and Imperialists, and who told you 60,000 were executed? what happened to the predicted bloodbath that you clowns said would happen when the NVA entered Saigon? it never happened according to you clowns there would have been mass murder, now today Vietnam is a vibrant Country and independent and you can't stand it.

Wrong

They were sent to learn how to be communist slaves not good vietnamese.

It did happen and vietnam is a vibrant country due to embracing capitalism.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Many former collaborators and traitors were sent to camps to learn what it means to be a proud Vietnamese and not a Puppet of Colonialists and Imperialists, and who told you 60,000 were executed? what happened to the predicted bloodbath that you clowns said would happen when the NVA entered Saigon? it never happened according to you clowns there would have been mass murder, now today Vietnam is a vibrant Country and independent and you can't stand it.

Oh, wow. You must be talking about a different Vietnam on a different planet. The Vietnam here on Earth is still ranked as one of the most repressive, brutal regimes on the planet, even according to left-leaning human rights groups such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. In its most recent report, Human Right Watch notes that "Vietnamese authorities severely restrict the rights to freedom of expression, association, peaceful assembly, movement, and religion. . . ." (LINK).

On the 60,000-some executions:

Repression in the Socialist Republic of Vietnam

Some info on Vietnam's brutal concentration camps ("reeducation camps"):

https://thevietnamwar.info/vietnamese-re-education-camps/

A (Purposefully) Forgotten Chapter: Re-education Camps In Vietnam - The Vietnamese Magazine

Actor Ke Huy Quan and “Everything Everywhere All At Once” made history at this year’s Oscars. Despite being the first person of Vietnamese heritage to win

thevietnamese.org

If you want to get some idea of the horror that the Communists imposed on the South Vietnamese after the war, read A Viet Cong Memoir: An Inside Account of the Vietnam War and Its Aftermath, written by Truong Nhu Tang, a former Viet Cong high official who was also a minister in the Viet Cong's shadow government, the PRG. He defected and fled Vietnam after the war after he saw the tyranny that the Communists were imposing. He described Communist rule as a "reign of terror."

Here are a few of the facts Tang discussed in his book:

-- After Saigon fell in April 1975, the North Vietnamese imposed a “reign of terror” on the South that included “outrages of every description” (pp. 280-281). These outrages caused Tang to realize that North Vietnam’s Communists were not interested in a genuine national unity government but in “the ruthless consolidation of power” (p. 281).

-- Tang said that Communist terrorism included “a wave of arbitrary arrests that scythed [slashed] through the cities and villages” (p. 279).

-- Tang said that at least 300,000 people were put into brutal “reeducation camps” (i.e., concentration camps), and he noted that this figure only counted the number of former government officers, state officials, and members of South Vietnam’s political party who were formally summoned for reeducation (p. 282). He added,

This figure does not include people who were arrested in the sweeps by governmental organs and military authorities that terrorized both Saigon and the provinces during that period. (p. 282)

Subsequent research puts the number of South Vietnamese sent to concentration camps at over 800,000.

-- The “reeducation” camps were “vicious” and “destructive” (p. 274). Tang complained about the camps to the PRG president, Huynh Tan Phat, but was told the camps were necessary and would continue (pp. 274-276). He even complained about the camps directly to North Vietnam’s prime minister, Pham Van Dong, but to no avail (pp. 280-282).

I discuss these facts and many others in my 2025 book Reclaiming the Vietnam War: The Betrayal of South Vietnam.

 

[Deadstick]

Oh, wow. You must be talking about a different Vietnam on a different planet. The Vietnam here on Earth is still ranked as one of the most repressive, brutal regimes on the planet, even according to left-leaning human rights groups such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. In its most recent report, Human Right Watch notes that "Vietnamese authorities severely restrict the rights to freedom of expression, association, peaceful assembly, movement, and religion. . . ." (LINK).

On the 60,000-some executions:

Repression in the Socialist Republic of Vietnam

Some info on Vietnam's brutal concentration camps ("reeducation camps"):

https://thevietnamwar.info/vietnamese-re-education-camps/

A (Purposefully) Forgotten Chapter: Re-education Camps In Vietnam - The Vietnamese Magazine

Actor Ke Huy Quan and “Everything Everywhere All At Once” made history at this year’s Oscars. Despite being the first person of Vietnamese heritage to win

thevietnamese.org

If you want to get some idea of the horror that the Communists imposed on the South Vietnamese after the war, read A Viet Cong Memoir: An Inside Account of the Vietnam War and Its Aftermath, written by Truong Nhu Tang, a former Viet Cong high official who was also a minister in the Viet Cong's shadow government, the PRG. He defected and fled Vietnam after the war after he saw the tyranny that the Communists were imposing. He described Communist rule as a "reign of terror."

Here are a few of the facts Tang discussed in his book:

-- After Saigon fell in April 1975, the North Vietnamese imposed a “reign of terror” on the South that included “outrages of every description” (pp. 280-281). These outrages caused Tang to realize that North Vietnam’s Communists were not interested in a genuine national unity government but in “the ruthless consolidation of power” (p. 281).

-- Tang said that Communist terrorism included “a wave of arbitrary arrests that scythed [slashed] through the cities and villages” (p. 279).

-- Tang said that at least 300,000 people were put into brutal “reeducation camps” (i.e., concentration camps), and he noted that this figure only counted the number of former government officers, state officials, and members of South Vietnam’s political party who were formally summoned for reeducation (p. 282). He added,

This figure does not include people who were arrested in the sweeps by governmental organs and military authorities that terrorized both Saigon and the provinces during that period. (p. 282)

Subsequent research puts the number of South Vietnamese sent to concentration camps at over 800,000.

-- The “reeducation” camps were “vicious” and “destructive” (p. 274). Tang complained about the camps to the PRG president, Huynh Tan Phat, but was told the camps were necessary and would continue (pp. 274-276). He even complained about the camps directly to North Vietnam’s prime minister, Pham Van Dong, but to no avail (pp. 280-282).

I discuss these facts and many others in my 2025 book Reclaiming the Vietnam War: The Betrayal of South Vietnam.

Give it up you lost it's over stop punishing yourself, there are quite a few Americans who actually live in Vietnam these days.

 

[Deadstick]

Wrong

They were sent to learn how to be communist slaves not good vietnamese.

It did happen and vietnam is a vibrant country due to embracing capitalism.

The fact is Vietnam is now a independent Country and not a Imperialist *****, you have a funny way of describing traitors who were no different than the Vichy French or other Nazi collaborators.

 

[Stryder50]

Biggest mistake the USA/West made was to leave North Vietnam intact to be a base of support and provide a pipeline of troops and material to the fight in the South, as well as Cambodia and Laos.

We could have bombed less had we just invaded the North, sending in the Marines and Army to take Hanoi AND seal the border with China.

By seal the border with China I mean that is where the bombing campaign would have focused, on anyone, anything heading South out of China. Overwatch and ready to drop HE and/or napalm 24/7.

NV was sending full-fledged military regiments and divisions southward into South Vietnam, i.e. a bona-fides invasion. Counter invasion to cut off the supplies and support of NV forces in the South would have provided a more sure path to victory for SV/USA/West.

 

[martybegan]

Any American thinking our government’s murderous actions in Vietnam was noble, obviously hasn’t bothered to research the impact on civilians.

So we should have just let the Soviets expand their influence during the Cold War?

 

[Zincwarrior]

Biggest mistake the USA/West made was to leave North Vietnam intact to be a base of support and provide a pipeline of troops and material to the fight in the South, as well as Cambodia and Laos.

We could have bombed less had we just invaded the North, sending in the Marines and Army to take Hanoi AND seal the border with China.

By seal the border with China I mean that is where the bombing campaign would have focused, on anyone, anything heading South out of China. Overwatch and ready to drop HE and/or napalm 24/7.

NV was sending full-fledged military regiments and divisions southward into South Vietnam, i.e. a bona-fides invasion. Counter invasion to cut off the supplies and support of NV forces in the South would have provided a more sure path to victory for SV/USA/West.

I imagine they did not want a second war with China in a decade.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The fact is Vietnam is now a independent Country and not a Imperialist *****, you have a funny way of describing traitors who were no different than the Vichy French or other Nazi collaborators.

They were not traitors.

Yes they were massively different from the vichy french. The communists werenot the rightful rulers and started the war

They were two independant countries back then. We are discussing the history not the present.