Even If Classified Documents Were Recovered In Trump Raid, It Looks Like Chances Of Conviction Are Quite Slim

[struth]

believe what you want deny what the facts say all you want ... all I can say is trumps new suit will match his face ...

what? you realize you sound like a kid on the back of a school bus…

and you wonder why nobody takes you seriously?

 

[hadit]

believe what you want deny what the facts say all you want ... all I can say is trumps new suit will match his face ...

You will never see him in an orange jumpsuit, no matter how much you stomp your feet.

 

[Lesh]

In the warrant (LINK), the laws allegedly broken are included....

"All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519

Here are links to the three statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not a lawyer, but my read is that it will difficult to prove violation of these statutes, even if classified material was actually seized, for the reasoning I include below (my opinions, not cut and pasted or researched anywhere).

You Biden supporters and/or Trump haters can let me know why I am wrong.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information​

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation...

This statute requires that the person not only be in possession of the material, but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States. What was Trump planning to do, sell nuclear secrets to Kim Jong Un in exchange for billions of dollars? Release the rcords to the NYT to damage the reputation of the US? Doesn't seem credible.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...
View attachment 681946

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy​

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter

This statute also requires intent. It's relevance is probably that it has been reported that Trump's lawyer signed a statement saying there was no classified material at Mar-A-Lago in June....

Trump's lawyer told the DOJ that ALL classified docs were returned

One of the lawyers working for Former President Donald Trump signed a written statement in June confirming that all classified material had been returned to the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If that signed statement was believed to be true at the time, there is no violation of this statute.

Opinions?

Sorry counselor but your opinions and mischaracterizations are bullshit.

The second charge particularly. He clearly was engaged in willful acts by lying about the return of docs marked classified in June

 

[struth]

Sorry counselor but your opinions and mischaracterizations are bullshit.

The second charge particularly. He clearly was engaged in willful acts by lying about the return of docs marked classified in June

the statement shows he believed they were all turned over. Clearly shows he had no intent.

 

[Rigby5]

Sorry counselor but your opinions and mischaracterizations are bullshit.

The second charge particularly. He clearly was engaged in willful acts by lying about the return of docs marked classified in June

Obviously all wrong.

793 says, " with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States".
So clearly does NOT at all apply to a president.

2071 says, " unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so", and since presidents can do what they want lawfully, this can not at all apply.

1519 says, "Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations" which obviously does not apply at all because Trump destroyed nothing.

 

[billyerock123]

Sure. You got him this time. Just like you had at least a dozen times and two impeachments before.

he's going down you can count on that ...

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Will the next big breaking news event be the revealing of Trump's purpose for holding the documents?

And will it be suggested that he was going to attempt to sell them or trade them off to one of America's enemies?

Russia? Did Trump see the evidence as money in the bank or insurance against legal action being taken against him?

Or did he have other reasons?

Could it be that the top secret documents have already been passed on to Russia? That would seem to be as logical conclusion as anything else.

As much as I would love to see something, anything that would induce Russia to waltz across our Southern border and kick some democrat ass, it's not going to happen. There are no documents. Democrats made it up. There is not one articulable document that they can say they are looking for. With that kind of moronic criteria, they can look forever, search after search. Perhaps that's the point.

 

[candycorn]

In the warrant (LINK), the laws allegedly broken are included....

"All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519

Here are links to the three statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not a lawyer, but my read is that it will difficult to prove violation of these statutes, even if classified material was actually seized, for the reasoning I include below (my opinions, not cut and pasted or researched anywhere).

You Biden supporters and/or Trump haters can let me know why I am wrong.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information​

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation...

This statute requires that the person not only be in possession of the material, but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States. What was Trump planning to do, sell nuclear secrets to Kim Jong Un in exchange for billions of dollars? Release the rcords to the NYT to damage the reputation of the US? Doesn't seem credible.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...
View attachment 681946

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy​

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter

This statute also requires intent. It's relevance is probably that it has been reported that Trump's lawyer signed a statement saying there was no classified material at Mar-A-Lago in June....

Trump's lawyer told the DOJ that ALL classified docs were returned

One of the lawyers working for Former President Donald Trump signed a written statement in June confirming that all classified material had been returned to the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If that signed statement was believed to be true at the time, there is no violation of this statute.

Opinions?

Your blob cares about himself, nobody else.

I can definitely see him divulging information to embarrass the United States since embarrasing the United States has been just about the only thing he's been successful at in the last 6 years.

 

[Batcat]

he's going down you can count on that ...View attachment 707267

Trump has survived so far which is simply amazing considering the forces that have been arrayed against him and all the dirty and often illegal tricks those forces employed.

You may be right but I would avoid counting your chickens before the hatch.

 

[bripat9643]

he's going down you can count on that ...View attachment 707267

That list refers to Biden, moron.