alang1216
Pragmatist
Maybe but I think more likely Jesus would vomit at today's "Christianity". The religion of Jesus became the religion about Jesus.Paul would vomit at today's "Christianity"
Maybe but I think more likely Jesus would vomit at today's "Christianity". The religion of Jesus became the religion about Jesus.Paul would vomit at today's "Christianity"
It wasn't so obvious to his Apostles and they knew him best.Seems like that question was answered by Jesus himself, he began his ministry ministering to only Jews. It was only after they rejected his teaching that he began ministering to the Gentiles. He even told a parable about it; the parable of the wedding feast. Matthew 22:1-14
I don't know that Jesus weighed in on the matter. It certainly wasn't considered an answered question by all of his followers.How did those views differ from the views of Jesus?
It might be better if you would select a specific disagreement. A "quick search" for me resulted in, "Paul disagreed with himself." It is what happens when one is clarifying a minute point.I invite you to make a quick Google search for yourself.
He did not risk his life, he gave his life and was murdered himself for a cause he previously tried to oppress and murdered others for, marking one of the most amazing conversions in human history.
But this is part of why he was chosen. Those who are forgiven much tends to love God that much more, causing him to be more devoted than the average follower of Christ. And he had the background and Jewish education that made him very articulate and able to write most of the NT.
And lastly, it was good for the apostles to come face to face with learning true forgiveness for a man who had once sought to take their very lives.
whom did Paul KILL----and by what means? His putative letters are cited---he must have written SOMETHING about the many he MURDERED?He did not risk his life, he gave his life and was murdered himself for a cause he previously tried to oppress and murdered others for, marking one of the most amazing conversions in human history.
But this is part of why he was chosen. Those who are forgiven much tends to love God that much more, causing him to be more devoted than the average follower of Christ. And he had the background and Jewish education that made him very articulate and able to write most of the NT.
And lastly, it was good for the apostles to come face to face with learning true forgiveness for a man who had once sought to take their very lives.
Controlling? Controlling? <ahem> It's a little hard to usurp others from a jail cell, my dearest Dogmaphobe. As the Apostle Paul, he spent a lot of time there for praising God through Christ Jesus, his Master who stopped him in his tracks on the road to Demascus with the question, (according to Acts by way of the ninth chapter), which says: "As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied."I see Paul as the usurper, myself.
He was Saul, persecuting Jesus' followers then Jesus died and all of a sudden, Paul was controlling a whole new movement.
If you are saying the answer to the question of who is Jesus wasn't obvious to his Apostles, that is correct. The question of "who is Jesus" is in all four gospels (if I am remembering correctly), but it was especially central to the gospel of Mark which was written from the point of view that the reader is told who Jesus is at the beginning but throughout the gospel the apostles don't know who Jesus is and the question was THE theme in that Gospel. The other gospels were written differently for different intents.It wasn't so obvious to his Apostles and they knew him best.
Yes, this is the story Paul told.Controlling? Controlling? <ahem> It's a little hard to usurp others from a jail cell, my dearest Dogmaphobe. As the Apostle Paul, he spent a lot of time there for praising God through Christ Jesus, his Master who stopped him in his tracks on the road to Demascus with the question, (according to Acts by way of the ninth chapter), which says: "As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied."
After that he was a jail bird a lot. Go figure.![]()
First of all I suspect you really mean Christians instead of Christianity. There seems to be a pervasive error in people distinguishing between God and religion and religion and adherents. Many people blame God for the ills of religion and blame religion for the ills of adherents. It's not an objective way of existing. It's always better to drain the dirty bathwater and keep the baby rather than throwing the baby out.Maybe but I think more likely Jesus would vomit at today's "Christianity". The religion of Jesus became the religion about Jesus.
Why would he? I don't believe there was a contradiction and if there were it would have been after he ascended and left it in their hands.I don't know that Jesus weighed in on the matter. It certainly wasn't considered an answered question by all of his followers.
Can you specify the passages you looked at to arrive at these conclusions? Or are you regurgitating talking points by others that you yourself have never studied?There is a difference. The bible is a definitive record of what Jesus said, and what Paul said. In he same book, you can compare the remarks of both, and see the disagreement in the teachings of both. Of course, this is assuming you still believe the Bible to be a credible record of what they both said. Here are a few to get you started. Paul says The earth Will be freed from its bondage to Decay. Jesus says it will be destroyed. Jesus said the law can be summed up in two Commandments, Paul said the law can be summed up in one commandment. is it summed up in one or two, it can’t be both. Read Matthew, then Romans. Read Luke followed quickly by first and second Timothy. Start writing down the contradictions
Been there, done that with ding. That's why I see no need to make the same effort for him this time. Plenty of side by side scripture comparisons available if you are interested, just not my job to continuously repeat them.It might be better if you would select a specific disagreement. A "quick search" for me resulted in, "Paul disagreed with himself." It is what happens when one is clarifying a minute point.
I was wondering which one interested you most.Been there, done that with ding. That's why I see no need to make the same effort for him this time. Plenty of side by side scripture comparisons available if you are interested, just not my job to continuously repeat them.
I don't disagree, but Jesus left very little, if any, writings. Did Jesus expect his pagan followers to be circumcised and follow the other Jewish laws? I don't recall anything in the Gospels about it but I think the debate raged in Acts and the letters of Paul.If you are saying the answer to the question of who is Jesus wasn't obvious to his Apostles, that is correct. The question of "who is Jesus" is in all four gospels (if I am remembering correctly), but it was especially central to the gospel of Mark which was written from the point of view that the reader is told who Jesus is at the beginning but throughout the gospel the apostles don't know who Jesus is and the question was THE theme in that Gospel. The other gospels were written differently for different intents.
Again I agree. I just think Paul is more important to the Christianity of today than any other figure, possibly even Jesus himself.But I'm not so sure that that means Paul disagreed or contradicted Jesus... at least knowingly and overtly. I honestly don't know what all the fuss about Paul is about.
Jesus lived and died as a devout Jew. The fact that Christians appropriated his scripture, changed the laws he lived under, and, ironically, developed a deep anti-Semitism at the same time would be shocking to him, I think.First of all I suspect you really mean Christians instead of Christianity. There seems to be a pervasive error in people distinguishing between God and religion and religion and adherents. Many people blame God for the ills of religion and blame religion for the ills of adherents. It's not an objective way of existing. It's always better to drain the dirty bathwater and keep the baby rather than throwing the baby out.
I see Paul as the usurper, myself.
He was Saul, persecuting Jesus' followers then Jesus died and all of a sudden, Paul was controlling a whole new movement.
Hard to answer. We know little of the views of Jesus but way more than Paul did.How did those views differ from the views of Jesus?
It happened a lot. You won't take my word for it, so google Jesus and Paul disagreements.
I disagree. Why do you believe we know little about the views of Jesus and why do you believe we know way more than Paul did? We know a great deal about what Jesus taught and typically people who are closer in time to an event know the event better than people who are farther away in time from the event.Hard to answer. We know little of the views of Jesus but way more than Paul did.