Zone1 Does Paul receive enough credit in Christianity?

[ding]

I understand completely and I'm glad your faith has made quite a positive effect on you. I feel the same about beer.

It's hard not to see that comment as a thinly veiled insult. Was that what you intended?

The reality of your situation is that you haven't really made any effort to discover the truth for yourself. You have so much confidence in yourself that you have never considered you could be wrong. If you contrast your efforts in answering the origin questions (made up your mind by the age of 11) relative to my efforts (26 years of studying which didn't begin until the age of 34) it's pretty obvious who has put in the work. I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad. I'm telling you this so you can see the reality of the situation. It's pretty arrogant of you to compare my work and experiences on this subject to drinking beer while you yourself have done next to nothing. But that's your mistake to make.

 

[ding]

I'm happy to argue about history, but your faith is all your own business.

The history includes Paul being led by the Holy Spirit. Personally I believe you are just happy to argue. Your mind is made up and your heart is hard. There's no room in your heart for God.

 

[ding]

He came only for the house of Israel, as you say.

That's not actually what I said. What I said is that "Jesus began his ministry ministering to only Jews. It was only after they rejected his teaching that he began ministering to the Gentiles."

Which isn't quite accurate either. What I should have said was Jesus began his ministry ministering mostly to Jews. It was only after they rejected his teaching that he began ministering to the Gentiles in earnest.

It's a bit of hair splitting to say he directed his apostles to do the ministering. The intent is that there were two distinct phases.

 

[surada]

That's not actually what I said. What I said is that "Jesus began his ministry ministering to only Jews. It was only after they rejected his teaching that he began ministering to the Gentiles."

Which isn't quite accurate either. What I should have said was Jesus began his ministry ministering mostly to Jews. It was only after they rejected his teaching that he began ministering to the Gentiles in earnest.

It's a bit of hair splitting to say he directed his apostles to do the ministering. The intent is that there were two distinct phases.

Jesus said he came for the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 - The Faith of the Canaanite Woman

He answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

biblehub.com

 

[surada]

That's not actually what I said. What I said is that "Jesus began his ministry ministering to only Jews. It was only after they rejected his teaching that he began ministering to the Gentiles."

Which isn't quite accurate either. What I should have said was Jesus began his ministry ministering mostly to Jews. It was only after they rejected his teaching that he began ministering to the Gentiles in earnest.

It's a bit of hair splitting to say he directed his apostles to do the ministering. The intent is that there were two distinct phases.

Jesus was clear that he came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 - The Faith of the Canaanite Woman

He answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

biblehub.com

 

[norwegen]

That's not actually what I said. What I said is that "Jesus began his ministry ministering to only Jews. It was only after they rejected his teaching that he began ministering to the Gentiles."

Jesus came only for the house of Israel. He came to save his people from their sins.

 

[Batcat]

Like this crowd?

‘He was chosen’: the rightwing Christian roadshow spreading the gospel of Trump

Part Trump rally, part religious service, and much conspiracy theory thrown in – on the eve of the midterms, Ed Pilkington visits the ReAwaken America tour

www.theguardian.com

I didn’t vote for Trump because he was a recently converted Christian. I don’t think any attempt to make Christians vote for Trump because he is a good Christian will fly. Most Presidential elections are won by the person you dislike the least.

The ReAwaken America tour really didn’t seen to do all that must for the Rujmpublicans in the Midterm electons.

In 2016 Christians voted for Trump so Hillary would not become President.

When Trump ran against Biden he was like Custer at Little Big Horn. The Democrats, their liberal media and propaganda outlets, the FBI and DOJ had spend Trump’s entire first term making him look bad. They tried to impeach him twice and hid things like Hunter’s laptop or claimed it was just Russian disinformation.

But to be fair Trump has problems. He has an enormous ego and feels he must fight ANYBODY and EVERYBODY who says anything negative about him. Trump tends to punch down a lot and people don’t like that.

Basically Trump is your stereotypical New Yorker. Obnoxious as hell.

Hopefully the Republicans will come up with a less obnoxious candidate who is aso a fighter.

I would never vote for another RINO like Romney or Cheney. RINOs are like lite beer. They are watered down Democrats.

At this point DeSantis looks like the best candidate to me. He is my Governor and is (IMO) the best damn Governor Florida has had in the last half a century that I lived here.

 

[ding]

Jesus said he came for the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 - The Faith of the Canaanite Woman

He answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

biblehub.com

Actually Jesus said he was sent not came. But to your point, context is everything. She was a woman and in those times women were not treated as equals by most men. She was a gentile and in those times gentiles were looked down upon by most Jews. So she had two strikes against her. This is the context for what happened next. So this gentile woman comes to Jesus and pleads for her daughter. Jesus doesn't respond to her at all. His disciples come in and asked Jesus to send her away because she keeps pestering them. After all she was just a woman and she wasn't even Jewish. So what does Jesus do? He tells her he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Does this dissuade her? No. She then pleads with Jesus to help her. What does Jesus do? He says in a very disrespectful way “It is not right to take the food of the children and throw it to the dogs.” Does this dissuade her? No. She says, “Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters.” And how does Jesus respond to this? He tells her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.” And he healed her daughter.

The exchange had to occur in this way to prove the point that faith matters. It was a teaching moment for the disciples and for us.


The Canaanite Woman’s Faith.*
21i Then Jesus went from that place and withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon.
22And behold, a Canaanite woman of that district came and called out, “Have pity on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is tormented by a demon.”
23But he did not say a word in answer to her. His disciples came and asked him, “Send her away, for she keeps calling out after us.”
24* He said in reply, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25j But the woman came and did him homage, saying, “Lord, help me.”
26He said in reply, “It is not right to take the food of the children* and throw it to the dogs.”
27She said, “Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters.”
28k Then Jesus said to her in reply, “O woman, great is your faith!* Let it be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed from that hour.

 

[ding]

Jesus came only for the house of Israel. He came to save his people from their sins.

Obviously not. He did heal her daughter. It was a teaching moment for the disciples and for us.

 

[alang1216]

God loves diversity. He created it.

Seriously though diversity of thought is critical to discover objective truth and objective truth is reality and God is reality because God is truth.

Defining God doesn't create reality.

 

[alang1216]

Is that what I wrote? Maybe you could find the post so we could establish the context of why I wrote whatever it was you believe I wrote. Fair enough?

No thanks, let's just move forward.

In the context of transcription errors from one copy to another my understanding is that the 24,000 written manuscripts were amazingly accurate relative to manuscripts from other events in antiquity. Maybe that was the context of my statement that you are now trying to recall from your memory. But without the actual post it's hard for me to know what the context was or even if your paraphrase is an accurate rendition.

I'm not sure how high that bar is since there were no copyright laws and forgeries were common (and some items, falsely claimed to have been written by an authority) even made it into the NT.

 

[alang1216]

It's hard not to see that comment as a thinly veiled insult. Was that what you intended?

Honesty, not insult. Your faith brings you comfort, beer brings me comfort.

The reality of your situation is that you haven't really made any effort to discover the truth for yourself. You have so much confidence in yourself that you have never considered you could be wrong. If you contrast your efforts in answering the origin questions (made up your mind by the age of 11) relative to my efforts (26 years of studying which didn't begin until the age of 34) it's pretty obvious who has put in the work. I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad. I'm telling you this so you can see the reality of the situation. It's pretty arrogant of you to compare my work and experiences on this subject to drinking beer while you yourself have done next to nothing. But that's your mistake to make.

No, the reality is that you have no clue how much effort I have put into the topic. Just because I came to different conclusions than you doesn't mean I have not studied the topic and I'd put my knowledge against what I've seen of yours any day.

 

[surada]

I didn’t vote for Trump because he was a recently converted Christian. I don’t think any attempt to make Christians vote for Trump because he is a good Christian will fly. Most Presidential elections are won by the person you dislike the least.

The ReAwaken America tour really didn’t seen to do all that must for the Rujmpublicans in the Midterm electons.

In 2016 Christians voted for Trump so Hillary would not become President.

When Trump ran against Biden he was like Custer at Little Big Horn. The Democrats, their liberal media and propaganda outlets, the FBI and DOJ had spend Trump’s entire first term making him look bad. They tried to impeach him twice and hid things like Hunter’s laptop or claimed it was just Russian disinformation.

But to be fair Trump has problems. He has an enormous ego and feels he must fight ANYBODY and EVERYBODY who says anything negative about him. Trump tends to punch down a lot and people don’t like that.

Basically Trump is your stereotypical New Yorker. Obnoxious as hell.

Hopefully the Republicans will come up with a less obnoxious candidate who is aso a fighter.

I would never vote for another RINO like Romney or Cheney. RINOs are like lite beer. They are watered down Democrats.

At this point DeSantis looks like the best candidate to me. He is my Governor and is (IMO) the best damn Governor Florida has had in the last half a century that I lived here.

New Yorkers don't like Trump either.

 

[alang1216]

The history includes Paul being led by the Holy Spirit. Personally I believe you are just happy to argue. Your mind is made up and your heart is hard. There's no room in your heart for God.

I can't weigh in on the supernatural, that I've never seen nor studied. My heart is not a problem, there's no room in my head for God.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Jesus was clear that he came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 - The Faith of the Canaanite Woman

He answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

biblehub.com

Jew first then to the Gentile.

 

[norwegen]

Obviously not. He did heal her daughter. It was a teaching moment for the disciples and for us.

Obviously so. It's in plain language.

"I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Mt 15:24)

[F]or he will save his people from their sins. (Mt 1:21)

You know what Jesus referred to the Canaanites as? Dogs. And the woman agreed. Christ's disciples begged him not to associate with her.

But like dogs, she settled for crumbs, so he obliged. He did not come for her.

 

[ding]

Defining God doesn't create reality.

I agree. I never said it did. God is the source of all reality. To see reality one must be objective. To be objective one must have no bias. To have no bias one must have no preference for an outcome.

 

[ding]

No thanks, let's just move forward.

Your call.

 

[ding]

I'm not sure how high that bar is since there were no copyright laws and forgeries were common (and some items, falsely claimed to have been written by an authority) even made it into the NT.

It's been thoroughly studied.

 

[ding]

Honesty, not insult. Your faith brings you comfort, beer brings me comfort.

It's kind of hard not to believe it was.