Zone1 Does Paul receive enough credit in Christianity?

[ding]

You mean aside from the fact Paul never met Jesus? What Paul knew about Jesus can be summed up as:

Jesus died for our sins by crucifixion and was then raised from the dead three days later, according to prophecy. He was seen by many after the resurrection. He was a descendant of David, he was betrayed, he defined a bread and wine ritual for his followers, and the Jews killed him.​

Yes aside from that. Because Paul did know Jesus through the Holy Spirit as Paul was led by the Holy Spirit. And the vast majority of people who have a relationship with the Trinity and are led by the Holy Spirit know that.

 

[ding]

I am interested in Jesus and his spoken/recorded word.

Aren't you a Catholic? I thought you were anyway.

 

[DudleySmith]

Babylonian racist fantasies?

Hebrews were not a racial cult until Ezra turned it into one, traced through the mother, in order to exclude sharing power with other Jews who weren't exiled or were living elsewhere. Oer the next few centuries they developed quite an extensive set of 'racial purity' codes and laws; they were using their influence with the Persian to set themselves up as the local govt. and and masters of the 2nd Temple and all the power and wealth that produces. Other Jews were 'tainted' in the regimes that followed. It is why genealogies were so important; they didn't want the local Jews sharing in the spoils with them. The whole idea of a 'Hebrew Nobility' was an alien idea until Samuel, and then it was only an emergency need for the current political climate and outside enemies. It was also part of the beginning of the decline of the Hebrewism of Moses.

They persecuted a lot of them, especially the Samaritans and Galileans as well as many in the Diaspora as it then existed, along with the Christians; they attempted to wipe out Christians for centuries, joining their Muslim buddies when they came along, providing soldiers and administrators for the conquests. They've invented an extensive fake history for themselves as hapless innocent victims of Evul Xian Bigotry N Stuff for centuries as well, to cover up why they were so discriminated against and why they were never trusted in the Western European kingdoms.

Currently they have a lot of Christians hoodwinked into beleiving they're the Jews of the Covenants, but in real life those Jews died with the Babylonian conquest, no Prophets since about 400 B.C. at the latest is evidence of that, and the degradation of the culture into racial minutiae and silly legalisms like the fictional 'Oral Torahs' and all that followed. around 300 B.C. Jewish intellectuals, many of then anyway, embraced Greek philosophies and some Gnostic cults began forming, the Pharissees rise to influence, leading to the chaos the Christian sect was formed from, along what others like the Siccari of Masada fame, Essenes, and Mandeans, etc. That the short answer, without the 3,000 page exegesis of some 500 year timeline. The Rabbinical cult and Talmud focus are 2nd Century and afterward; the Christian Jewish sect is almosyt a 100 years older than 'Orthodox' Judaism, and by the far the most influential and successful one, with a more advanced and intellectual theology and social framework.

 

[ding]

You'd think God would anticipate the fractious debate the topic would bring.

God loves diversity. He created it.

Seriously though diversity of thought is critical to discover objective truth and objective truth is reality and God is reality because God is truth.

 

[DudleySmith]

I am interested in Jesus and his spoken/recorded word.

There were both oral and written scriptures in those days, they co-existed, which is one reason they are very reliable, more so than any other ancient texts and theologies.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Aren't you a Catholic? I thought you were anyway.

Anglican. If I were Catholic I would still follow Jesus words, even if Mary is more important to some Catholics and ritual seems to be more closely followed. In the end, I'm a free thinking Christian who focuses heavily on Jesuses words specifically to dissect the bible and Goes message.

 

[surada]

Hebrews were not a racial cult until Ezra turned it into one, traced through the mother, in order to exclude sharing power with other Jews who weren't exiled or were living elsewhere. Oer the next few centuries they developed quite an extensive set of 'racial purity' codes and laws; they were using their influence with the Persian to set themselves up as the local govt. and and masters of the 2nd Temple and all the power and wealth that produces. Other Jews were 'tainted' in the regimes that followed. It is why genealogies were so important; they didn't want the local Jews sharing in the spoils with them. The whole idea of a 'Hebrew Nobility' was an alien idea until Samuel, and then it was only an emergency need for the current political climate and outside enemies. It was also part of the beginning of the decline of the Hebrewism of Moses.

They persecuted a lot of them, especially the Samaritans and Galileans as well as many in the Diaspora as it then existed, along with the Christians; they attempted to wipe out Christians for centuries, joining their Muslim buddies when they came along, providing soldiers and administrators for the conquests. They've invented an extensive fake history for themselves as hapless innocent victims of Evul Xian Bigotry N Stuff for centuries as well, to cover up why they were so discriminated against and why they were never trusted in the Western European kingdoms.

Currently they have a lot of Christians hoodwinked into beleiving they're the Jews of the Covenants, but in real life those Jews died with the Babylonian conquest, no Prophets since about 400 B.C. at the latest is evidence of that, and the degradation of the culture into racial minutiae and silly legalisms like the fictional 'Oral Torahs' and all that followed. around 300 B.C. Jewish intellectuals, many of then anyway, embraced Greek philosophies and some Gnostic cults began forming, the Pharissees rise to influence, leading to the chaos the Christian sect was formed from, along what others like the Siccari of Masada fame, Essenes, and Mandeans, etc. That the short answer, without the 3,000 page exegesis of some 500 year timeline. The Rabbinical cult and Talmud focus are 2nd Century and afterward; the Christian Jewish sect is almost a 100 years older than 'Orthodox' Judaism, and by the far the most influential and successful one, with a more advanced and intellectual theology and social framework.

I was questioning the Babylonian aspect of your remarks. I'm aware of the good figs versus bad figs... and the various Jewish factions like the siccari and Herodians.

 

[ding]

Anglican. If I were Catholic I would still follow Jesus words, even if Mary is more important to some Catholics and ritual seems to be more closely followed. In the end, I'm a free thinking Christian who focuses heavily on Jesuses words specifically to dissect the bible and Goes message.

I see. So there's no central document that exists for Anglican's like the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

The Catholic Church allows for free thinking and has a rich heritage of great minds. It's one of the reasons I love being a Catholic.

I'm going to let that Mary comment slide.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I see. So there's no central document that exists for Anglican's like the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

I believe there are some creeds. Remember, Anglican goes back to the Church of England so in some ways it's unique from Catholicism certainly. Honestly though, I was baptized Anglican, I still listen to the KJV and choose to independently dissect his written words.

 

[ding]

I believe there are some creeds. Remember, Anglican goes back to the Church of England so in some ways it's unique from Catholicism certainly. Honestly though, I was.baptized Anglican, I still listen to the KJV and choose to independently dissect his written words.

To each his own.

 

[shockedcanadian]

To each his own.

That's my motto for many issues.

 

[norwegen]

Seems like that was addressed by Jesus himself, he began his ministry ministering to only Jews. It was only after they rejected his teaching that he began ministering to the Gentiles. He even told a parable about it; the parable of the wedding feast. Matthew 22:1-14

What Gentiles did Jesus minister to? Yea, the Syrophoenician woman had faith. A Roman centurion, perhaps?

He came only for the house of Israel, as you say. Not for Gentiles. That's a task he charged his apostles with.

 

[norwegen]

Paul says The earth Will be freed from its bondage to Decay. Jesus says it will be destroyed.

"I did not come to judge the world but to save the world."

~ Jesus

 

[Batcat]

I see Paul as the usurper, myself.


He was Saul, persecuting Jesus' followers then Jesus died and all of a sudden, Paul was controlling a whole new movement.

You might also have noticed he never got rich doing so like many of our religious leaders.

 

[surada]

You might also have noticed he never got rich doing so like many of our religious leaders.

Like this crowd?

âHe was chosenâ: the rightwing Christian roadshow spreading the gospel of Trump

Part Trump rally, part religious service, and much conspiracy theory thrown in – on the eve of the midterms, Ed Pilkington visits the ReAwaken America tour

www.theguardian.com

 

[ding]

What Gentiles did Jesus minister to? Yea, the Syrophoenician woman had faith. A Roman centurion, perhaps?

He came only for the house of Israel, as you say. Not for Gentiles. That's a task he charged his apostles with.

Mark 5:1-20. But there are others.

Ever noticed how after performing miracles he would tell some [I'm paraphrasing here] "tell no one" and others he would tell them "tell others." Did you ever wonder why?

 

[alang1216]

That's not true but it doesn't matter if it were. So it's not worth me arguing about.

I guess I lost track of what you are arguing for. How would this point relate to that?

If my failing memory serves, you were saying how accurate the stories of the NT were and I was, surprisingly, disagreeing.

 

[alang1216]

If that's important to you, you should probably do some research. I don't really see a personal relevance for me. I'm quite happy with the Trinity. It's a tangible intangible for me. It's made quite a positive effect on me.

I understand completely and I'm glad your faith has made quite a positive effect on you. I feel the same about beer.

 

[alang1216]

Yes aside from that. Because Paul did know Jesus through the Holy Spirit as Paul was led by the Holy Spirit. And the vast majority of people who have a relationship with the Trinity and are led by the Holy Spirit know that.

I'm happy to argue about history, but your faith is all your own business.

 

[ding]

If my failing memory serves, you were saying how accurate the stories of the NT were and I was, surprisingly, disagreeing.

Is that what I wrote? Maybe you could find the post so we could establish the context of why I wrote whatever it was you believe I wrote. Fair enough?

In the context of transcription errors from one copy to another my understanding is that the 24,000 written manuscripts were amazingly accurate relative to manuscripts from other events in antiquity. Maybe that was the context of my statement that you are now trying to recall from your memory. But without the actual post it's hard for me to know what the context was or even if your paraphrase is an accurate rendition.