Zone1 Does Paul receive enough credit in Christianity?

[Vastator]

That doesn't sound like it's Paul's fault that they did that. He's been dead quite some time.

Nor do I blame dead men.

 

[Vastator]

When people take Paul out of context, they call him a usurper.

Or... They use him as a straw man to justify disobeying God. I've seen plenty of the latter. And none of the former. I hold reverence for no man.

 

[ding]

Nor do I blame dead men.

I'm just saying that the beef you have seems to be Christians today. Unless you are arguing Paul's letters weren't true to Christ's message.

 

[norwegen]

Or... They use him as a straw man to justify disobeying God. I've seen plenty of the latter. And none of the former. I hold reverence for no man.

If they're not Christians, or if they don't believe in God, they don't disobey God, no matter what they do.

If you're suggesting that Christians use Paul as a strawman, then of course, I don't believe you.

 

[Vastator]

I'm just saying that the beef you have seems to be Christians today. Unless you are arguing Paul's letters weren't true to Christ's message.

Indeed Saul served a valuable purpose after the Crucifixion of Jesus. But never did he strive for the Pedestal many have placed him on.

 

[Vastator]

If they're not Christians, or if they don't believe in God, they don't disobey God, no matter what they do.

If you're suggesting that Christians use Paul as a strawman, then of course, I don't believe you.

I would never suggest that you put your belief, or faith in me...

 

[jwoodie]

He really was a loyal servant who fearlessly spread the gospel,risking his life and fully a.Believer.

Paul invented Christianity, but that does not detract from the divinity of Jesus' teachings.

 

[norwegen]

Paul invented Christianity

No kidding? Paul invented a religion that had already existed before he converted to it?

 

[ding]

If they're not Christians, or if they don't believe in God, they don't disobey God, no matter what they do.

If you're suggesting that Christians use Paul as a strawman, then of course, I don't believe you.

I disobey God all the time. And I believe I am a Christian. Maybe not a good Christian though.

 

[ding]

Paul invented Christianity, but that does not detract from the divinity of Jesus' teachings.

What do you mean by Paul invented Christianity?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Paul trashed Catholicism and the papacy/cardinals etc.
I always laugh when Catholics speak highly of him... I am like... uh... do you not realize the entire theme of Paul's writings is no man is above another in a religion? Did you miss the whole part where he quite angrily wrote to the churches about how they were following the teachings of men and not Jesus?

 

[ding]

Paul trashed Catholicism and the papacy/cardinals etc.
I always laugh when Catholics speak highly of him... I am like... uh... do you not realize the entire theme of Paul's writings is no man is above another in a religion? Did you miss the whole part where he quite angrily wrote to the churches about how they were following the teachings of men and not Jesus?

Are you suggesting we should bias our judgement based upon if we like or dislike someone?

Is that how you operate? I bet you don't see yourself that way. So why would you choose to see others that way?

 

[ding]

Did you miss the whole part where he quite angrily wrote to the churches about how they were following the teachings of men and not Jesus?

Were they? What was the context?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Are you suggesting we should bias our judgement based upon if we like or dislike someone?

Is that how you operate? I bet you don't see yourself that way. So why would you choose to see others that way?

Like or dislike?
Who is talking about liking or disliking?
A Catholic saying they admire Paul is like an aspiring athlete praising an educator that wants to get rid of school sponsored sporting events.

 

[ding]

do you not realize the entire theme of Paul's writings is no man is above another in a religion?

I guess not. I don't know if that is true or false. It seems to me that his theme was God sent Jesus to save the world. That Jesus’ sacrifice allowed believers to escape not only the consequences of transgression but also the power of sin that leads to transgression.

But let's just say that what you are claiming is true, what's the implication of that? Why is that a problem? What am I missing?

 

[ding]

Like or dislike?
Who is talking about liking or disliking?
A Catholic saying they admire Paul is like an aspiring athlete praising an educator that wants to get rid of school sponsored sporting events.

It kind of seemed like you think others are biased in how they see Paul. It's believed that Paul was beheaded for his beliefs in Rome. It's kind of hard not to respect his conviction or the work he performed in spreading the good news. How do you believe I should see Paul?

 

[Vastator]

It kind of seemed like you think others are biased in how they see Paul. It's believed that Paul was beheaded for his beliefs in Rome. It's kind of hard not to respect his conviction or the work he performed in spreading the good news. How do you believe I should see Paul?

Not to butt in, but... As a man like any other. The mortal flesh can admire, and that completely natural. But reverance..? That is not seemingly God's wish. Saul is dead, and in cold storage just like every other man waiting on Judgment.

 

[ding]

Not to butt in, but... As a man like any other. The mortal flesh can admire, and that completely natural. But reverance..? That is not seemingly God's wish. Saul is dead, and in cold storage just like every other man waiting on Judgment.

Butt in all you like. Diversity of thought is how truth is discovered.

Respect and reverence aren't the same thing.

As for St. Paul being dead... Jesus teaches that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is “not the God of the dead, but of the living” (Matt. 22:32). In addition, Moses and Elijah are alive to Jesus at the Transfiguration and converse with him, even though their earthly deaths had occurred many years before (see Matt. 17:1-8).

Which is why Catholics believe that the saints are in heaven and alive.

 

[Vastator]

Saul is not mentioned amongst the privileged few…

 

[ding]

Saul is not mentioned amongst the privileged few…

But Saint Paul is. At least in the Catholic universe anyway. I really like the Catholic belief that no one knows their fate except the saints in heaven; the ones we know about and the ones we don't know about. It's actually a quite beautiful and logical belief. I think it's the logical part that makes it beautiful.