CDZ Do you agree that, only through government, can people...

[K9Buck]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

 

[fncceo]

No.

I do believe that individuals can achieve their potential, in spite of government.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Well, the Clintons have netted 240 million through governmant.

That is certainly realiing the true potental of governance.

 

[K9Buck]

No.

I do believe that individuals can achieve their potential, in spite of government.

I agree with you but many believe that they only way for a society to achieve their shared goals is through government. I'm curious to hear from them as to why they hold such a belief.

 

[fncceo]

No.

I do believe that individuals can achieve their potential, in spite of government.

I agree with you but many believe that they only way for a society to achieve their shared goals is through government. I'm curious to hear from them as to why they hold such a belief.

People believe in a lot of strange things.

 

[night_son]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

No. That being said history has proven again and again people cannot survive consistently without the protection of a government hired and managed military/police force. I'll provide an example.

Let's say there's a group twenty families who decide to leave society and vanish into oh, I don't know, the trackless Northwest Territories. Their plan: form their own sovereign nation, but a nation free from all government authority. Now let's say four or five more groups of twenty families get the same idea and head north into the same area, relatively. History has shown that eventually those groups of families will seek out other (tribes) families to trade with and possibly breed with. History has also shown that some groups of families will ally with others, form a larger tribe, and then raid all the smaller ones in the region. Right, so without a unified government and its military/police force independent or small groups of people really stand no chance against larger, similar groups.

But let's take it even a step further. What if a single family left society and settled in a place where there is no government protection. Well, in the long term, they might be fine if no one else ever finds them or happens upon them. The chances of that, however, are very low—even in a remote wilderness. So what will inevitably happen when parts, even the smallest ones, of society catch up to our wilderness family? Violence. Someone, at some time will find the independent wilderness family and either covet what they have or just attack them for the hell of it. Without the protection of government hired mercenaries that family is dead meat.

My two cents . . .

 

[Kilroy2]

Yet government can be corrupt. It is run by people and whatever motives that drives them. So not everyone in society is on the same wave length. So there will always be differences. Potential is not always good especially if there is competition. IF people cannot accept the differences, then what is the use of holding hands in unity and singing a happy song. There will always be someone who disagrees. There will be always someone who is weaker. Some people don't want to live up to potential defined by others. Government is corrupt because people are corrupt or they become corrupt. Not everyone is corrupt but it does make things difficult.

 

[badbob85037]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

I though government is suppose to stay out of a citizen's way to allow a person to reach his potential.

 

[K9Buck]

I though government is suppose to stay out of a citizen's way to allow a person to reach his potential.

Citizens are now responsible to fund a fellow citizen's home mortgage, college education, healthcare, legal defense, diet, transgender studies in Pakistan, aid to foreign countries as well as fund the existence of refugees who find their way here. None of that was in existence until FDR or possibly after FDR.

I believe that the left's philosophy is that all citizens are obligated to work for the betterment of fellow citizens and even non-citizens in order to make our nation, as well as the world, a "better" place and that the best way or "only" way to achieve that is through government.

 

[MarathonMike]

Well, the Clintons have netted 240 million through governmant.

That is certainly realiing the true potental of governance.

I'm certain many of our career "Public Servants" have served themselves very well with millions in payoffs.

I though government is suppose to stay out of a citizen's way to allow a person to reach his potential.

Citizens are now responsible to fund a fellow citizen's home mortgage, college education, healthcare, legal defense, diet, transgender studies in Pakistan, aid to foreign countries as well as fund the existence of refugees who find their way here. None of that was in existence until FDR or possibly after FDR.

I believe that the left's philosophy is that all citizens are obligated to work for the betterment of fellow citizens and even non-citizens in order to make our nation, as well as the world, a "better" place and that the best way or "only" way to achieve that is through government.

The State does not like financially independent citizens. They have no leverage. But if you take away the ability for businesses to operate, create massive "relief bills" and tax the shit out of the independent, The State gains power over the people. That's the way America is going and it is profoundly sad to see.

 

[Thoth001]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

Governments around the world are the reason so many humans die and fight each other. It seems most governments become corrupt over time. WE do definitely need to come up with a better system then what we have been doing for the past thousands of years. It is just not working.

I am not saying total anarchy but clearly this just isn't working for humans.

 

[occupied]

The cure for chronic bad government has always been to smash the aristocracy. For some reason Americans have forgotten this. We've become a nation of total kiss-asses to whoever is cutting the checks.

 

[alpine]

the idea of a central government is as old as farming...
i guess because scaling farming required planning and efficiency in epic levels, which was only possible through a central system...
just like how more complex the organism gets, how centralized the nervous system becomes...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

This fails as a loaded question fallacy.

 

[Darkwind]

The cure for chronic bad government has always been to smash the aristocracy. For some reason Americans have forgotten this. We've become a nation of total kiss-asses to whoever is cutting the checks.

In truth, without the mindless followers of government, the government has no power. Harshly deal with the jackboots and other brownshirts that do the bidding of government and the government itself falls into line.

 

[K9Buck]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

This fails as a loaded question fallacy.

Not at all. Your response indicates fear and a desire to avoid answering the question.

 

[K9Buck]

farming required planning and efficiency in epic levels, which was only possible through a central system

Central planning is demonstrably less productive than private planning. The U.S.S.R. couldn't feed itself due to central planning while a relatively few entrepreneurial American farmers fed the world. Had D.C. managed it, the world would have starved.

 

[K9Buck]

The cure for chronic bad government has always been to smash the aristocracy. For some reason Americans have forgotten this. We've become a nation of total kiss-asses to whoever is cutting the checks.

In truth, without the mindless followers of government, the government has no power. Harshly deal with the jackboots and other brownshirts that do the bidding of government and the government itself falls into line.

We all support a federal government but the size and purpose of the federal government is where many of us differ.

 

[Penelope]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

No. That being said history has proven again and again people cannot survive consistently without the protection of a government hired and managed military/police force. I'll provide an example.

Let's say there's a group twenty families who decide to leave society and vanish into oh, I don't know, the trackless Northwest Territories. Their plan: form their own sovereign nation, but a nation free from all government authority. Now let's say four or five more groups of twenty families get the same idea and head north into the same area, relatively. History has shown that eventually those groups of families will seek out other (tribes) families to trade with and possibly breed with. History has also shown that some groups of families will ally with others, form a larger tribe, and then raid all the smaller ones in the region. Right, so without a unified government and its military/police force independent or small groups of people really stand no chance against larger, similar groups.

But let's take it even a step further. What if a single family left society and settled in a place where there is no government protection. Well, in the long term, they might be fine if no one else ever finds them or happens upon them. The chances of that, however, are very low—even in a remote wilderness. So what will inevitably happen when parts, even the smallest ones, of society catch up to our wilderness family? Violence. Someone, at some time will find the independent wilderness family and either covet what they have or just attack them for the hell of it. Without the protection of government hired mercenaries that family is dead meat.

My two cents . . .

Yes often those are called militias.

 

[Blues Man]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

one first has to believe in destiny.

And I don't