CDZ Do you agree that, only through government, can people...

[K9Buck]

one first has to believe in destiny. And I don't

In other words, you support government management of every facet of society but you don't want to discuss why you support such a system, right?

 

[Blues Man]

one first has to believe in destiny. And I don't

In other words, you support government management of every facet of society but you don't want to discuss why you support such a system, right?

how did you come to that conclusion about what I believe?

 

[alang1216]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

I believe man is a social creature and can only survive, let alone prosper, within some kind of society. Every kind of society requires a structure and government is that structure. So my answer must be yes, a government is required for people to realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny. Since every society and hence every government is different, realizing one's true potential will be easier (US) or harder (North Korea).

 

[Blues Man]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

I believe man is a social creature and can only survive, let alone prosper, within some kind of society. Every kind of society requires a structure and government is that structure. So my answer must be yes, a government is required for people to realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny. Since every society and hence every government is different, realizing one's true potential will be easier (US) or harder (North Korea).

what makes you think any group of people share a destiny?

 

[alang1216]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

I believe man is a social creature and can only survive, let alone prosper, within some kind of society. Every kind of society requires a structure and government is that structure. So my answer must be yes, a government is required for people to realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny. Since every society and hence every government is different, realizing one's true potential will be easier (US) or harder (North Korea).

what makes you think any group of people share a destiny?

I don't believe in destiny or fate or whatever. I do believe we share a common goal of survival, prosperity, love, etc., the things that make us human.

 

[K9Buck]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

I believe man is a social creature and can only survive, let alone prosper, within some kind of society. Every kind of society requires a structure and government is that structure. So my answer must be yes, a government is required for people to realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny. Since every society and hence every government is different, realizing one's true potential will be easier (US) or harder (North Korea).

I like your post. I believe it is a very reasonable response.

I believe that many on the left believe that American citizens are financially obligated to fund another citizen's educational explorations in order to "fulfill" that citizen's potential, regardless of the fact that it doesn't directly benefit the taxpayer funding the college education.

A more limited-government advocate like me believes that a private citizen should have ZERO responsibility to fund another adult's college education. Therefore, I/we oppose the existence of government, student-loan programs just like I/we oppose the existence of housing programs wherein I/we are responsible for funding someone's mortgage. That's not freedom; that's indentured servitude.

I see government as an unpleasant necessity to organize the nation's defense and to enforce contracts, etc. I do NOT see the government as the vehicle through which all citizens can achieve greatness. On the contrary, I believe that excessive government is counter-productive to that end.

 

[K9Buck]

I don't believe in destiny or fate or whatever. I do believe we share a common goal of survival, prosperity, love, etc., the things that make us human.

Do you believe that one citizen is obligated to sacrifice for another citizen in order to help them to become more prosperous?

 

[Blues Man]

...realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny?

If so, why do you believe such?

I believe man is a social creature and can only survive, let alone prosper, within some kind of society. Every kind of society requires a structure and government is that structure. So my answer must be yes, a government is required for people to realize their true potential and achieve their shared destiny. Since every society and hence every government is different, realizing one's true potential will be easier (US) or harder (North Korea).

what makes you think any group of people share a destiny?

I don't believe in destiny or fate or whatever. I do believe we share a common goal of survival, prosperity, love, etc., the things that make us human.

but you just said that people need government to achieve their shared destiny.

 

[alpine]

farming required planning and efficiency in epic levels, which was only possible through a central system

Central planning is demonstrably less productive than private planning. The U.S.S.R. couldn't feed itself due to central planning while a relatively few entrepreneurial American farmers fed the world. Had D.C. managed it, the world would have starved.

without the massive projects provided the water for irrigation systems, big scale farming is doomed to fail, regardless where it is being developed...

ussr fed itself quite well...

china fed its massive population for thousands of years as a result of, again, central planning...

world is capable of supporting its current massive population thanks to the human capacity of central planning...

governments are merely are result of this human endeavor...

 

[K9Buck]

ussr fed itself quite well...

That is patently FALSE.

 

[K9Buck]

china fed its massive population for thousands of years as a result of, again, central planning...

Wrong again.

Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[K9Buck]

There has never been "central planning" with regard to U.S. farming and, yet, the American farmer is arguably the most successful in world history.

 

[alpine]

ussr fed itself quite well...

That is patently FALSE.

no it is not...

for its location, which is mostly not suitable for farming, it was able to feed its population and even export agricultural products...

for any grand scale farming, you need central planning...

individual farmers cant plan dams and canals for massive scale agriculture to happen which allows nations to support urbanization and industrialization of the masses...

 

[Blues Man]

There has never been "central planning" with regard to U.S. farming and, yet, the American farmer is arguably the most successful in world history.

so then you must like the fact that big government gives farmers subsidies

 

[alpine]

There has never been "central planning" with regard to U.S. farming and, yet, the American farmer is arguably the most successful in world history.

pure fantasy...

 

[K9Buck]

pure fantasy..

Do you have an example(s) of how the federal government "planned" farming in the midwest?

 

[K9Buck]

so then you must like the fact that big government gives farmers subsidies

No.

 

[Blues Man]

so then you must like the fact that big government gives farmers subsidies

No.

then it can be argued that US farmers would not be as successful as you say if they did not get subsidies.

Even the farmers themselves say they need those subsidies to survive

 

[K9Buck]

ussr fed itself quite well...

That is patently FALSE.

no it is not...

for its location, which is mostly not suitable for farming, it was able to feed its population and even export agricultural products...

The Soviet Union's farming output was DISASTROUS. They had massive food shortages and had to buy huge shipments of grain from the U.S. for YEARS.

Here, read this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...gh-food/2f9d75f9-f76a-4f65-8512-9c29d28e372f/

 

[K9Buck]

then it can be argued that US farmers would not be as successful as you say if they did not get subsidies. Even the farmers themselves say they need those subsidies to survive

The only reason they get those subsidies is due to the government overreach that I am arguing against in this thread.

Incidentally, the American farmer was quite successful long before crooked government officials decided to start handing out the people's money.