Do we have free will? Is free will inviolate?

[Delta4Embassy]

Usually hear we have free will and not even God can take it away. Yet didn't God 'harden' pharaoh's heart forcing him into refusing the Jews their freedom? And on multiple occasions?

 

[Avatar4321]

The scriptures say that we are to "Choose this day whom you will serve"

So yes we have free will. Pharoah could have chosen differently. But He didn't and God knew He wouldn't in that position. The fact that God knows us so well He knows how we will choose doesn't means He has taken away our agency.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The scriptures say that we are to "Choose this day whom you will serve"

So yes we have free will. Pharoah could have chosen differently. But He didn't and God knew He wouldn't in that position. The fact that God knows us so well He knows how we will choose doesn't means He has taken away our agency.

Genesis reads like Pharaoh wanted to let them go but God forced him not to. Pastes coming...

 

[Delta4Embassy]

21The Lord said to Moses, "When you go to return to Egypt, see all the signs that I have placed in your hand and perform them before Pharaoh, but I will strengthen his heart, and he will not send out the people.
- Exodus 4

Makes it stand like he's controlling Pharaoh. Again in 9,

12But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.

Only way this isn't God controlling Pharaoh is if you read it as a figure of speech where someone who refuses to do something 'has a hard heart' and how their heart is is because of God though not in the controlling sense. Like 'a brave man has the heart of lion.' Obviously not in the literal sense.

 

[Indeependent]

Define "Hardening".
Better yet, read Rambam.

 

[tyroneweaver]

and Pharoah will harden his heart, is the way it should be interpreted. Might be even written that way.
In God's scheme free will means you have the ability to chose what is right. He really isn't saying you can chose evil over good.

 

[the_human_being]

Usually hear we have free will and not even God can take it away. Yet didn't God 'harden' pharaoh's heart forcing him into refusing the Jews their freedom? And on multiple occasions?

Man's free will is a myth at best. It is Go who wills in each of us. God is in complete control of everyone and everything.


Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Rom_9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor?


Jer_18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Usually hear we have free will and not even God can take it away. Yet didn't God 'harden' pharaoh's heart forcing him into refusing the Jews their freedom? And on multiple occasions?

Man's free will is a myth at best. It is Go who wills in each of us. God is in complete control of everyone and everything.


Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Rom_9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor?


Jer_18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

I don't believe God is a puppetmeister.

 

[TimothysAlaska]

Usually hear we have free will and not even God can take it away. Yet didn't God 'harden' pharaoh's heart forcing him into refusing the Jews their freedom? And on multiple occasions?

I read this in Sunday school when I was 7, and is why I renounced religion, that is one sick evil book, filled with a tribe and God killing people, murdering, and every act of depravity. It is a book of horrors. Teaches segregation, and hate, and subject action of women. Hardly any laws in it are followed by the faithful anymore.

Christianity actually changed to predestiny during Calvinism, I think that passage is one that they used, anyway every generation chrisianity changes and in ten years they will believe in predestiny again.

Predestiny is the belief that when you are born it is already decided if you are going to heaven or hell.

Hell lol made up specifically for christianity. The Old Testament talks about the grave, where we all go.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Usually hear we have free will and not even God can take it away. Yet didn't God 'harden' pharaoh's heart forcing him into refusing the Jews their freedom? And on multiple occasions?

I read this in Sunday school when I was 7, and is why I renounced religion, that is one sick evil book, filled with a tribe and God killing people, murdering, and every act of depravity. It is a book of horrors. Teaches segregation, and hate, and subject action of women. Hardly any laws in it are followed by the faithful anymore.

Christianity actually changed to predestiny during Calvinism, I think that passage is one that they used, anyway every generation chrisianity changes and in ten years they will believe in predestiny again.

Predestiny is the belief that when you are born it is already decided if you are going to heaven or hell.

Hell lol made up specifically for christianity. The Old Testament talks about the grave, where we all go.

I try and read the Bible every day. But I also try a little bit of common sense in my reading also.

 

[TimothysAlaska]

Usually hear we have free will and not even God can take it away. Yet didn't God 'harden' pharaoh's heart forcing him into refusing the Jews their freedom? And on multiple occasions?

I read this in Sunday school when I was 7, and is why I renounced religion, that is one sick evil book, filled with a tribe and God killing people, murdering, and every act of depravity. It is a book of horrors. Teaches segregation, and hate, and subject action of women. Hardly any laws in it are followed by the faithful anymore.

Christianity actually changed to predestiny during Calvinism, I think that passage is one that they used, anyway every generation chrisianity changes and in ten years they will believe in predestiny again.

Predestiny is the belief that when you are born it is already decided if you are going to heaven or hell.

Hell lol made up specifically for christianity. The Old Testament talks about the grave, where we all go.

I try and read the Bible every day. But I also try a little bit of common sense in my reading also.

I tried common sense and realized to use common sense the bible makes no sense. A talking snake, God making man and woman in the first chapter then the second chapter changing it, to make woman look bad, and cursed. Does it make sense to you that God made all the animals first, then said be fruitful and multiple then makes man without a woman. Common sense says it was edited to put that story in there.

No where besides the Old Testament does it go back and retell a version like that. That was an obvious edit.

 

[TimothysAlaska]

Usually hear we have free will and not even God can take it away. Yet didn't God 'harden' pharaoh's heart forcing him into refusing the Jews their freedom? And on multiple occasions?

I read this in Sunday school when I was 7, and is why I renounced religion, that is one sick evil book, filled with a tribe and God killing people, murdering, and every act of depravity. It is a book of horrors. Teaches segregation, and hate, and subject action of women. Hardly any laws in it are followed by the faithful anymore.

Christianity actually changed to predestiny during Calvinism, I think that passage is one that they used, anyway every generation chrisianity changes and in ten years they will believe in predestiny again.

Predestiny is the belief that when you are born it is already decided if you are going to heaven or hell.

Hell lol made up specifically for christianity. The Old Testament talks about the grave, where we all go.

I try and read the Bible every day. But I also try a little bit of common sense in my reading also.

I tried common sense and realized to use common sense the bible makes no sense. A talking snake, God making man and woman in the first chapter then the second chapter changing it, to make woman look bad, and cursed. Does it make sense to you that God made all the animals first, then said be fruitful and multiple then makes man without a woman. Common sense says it was edited to put that story in there.

No where besides the Old Testament does it go back and retell a version like that. That was an obvious edit.

So using common sense God makes all the plants before he made light,( he made light but had not made day or night yet,) Then makes all the animals male and female, and makes man and woman, but the second chapter he says he made man first, and had him look for a partner among the animals. Which he had already made animals male and female. But with man he forgot, well in the first chapter he remembered but ok chapter 2 must be a flashback. So now he finally makes a partner for man, a woman, although he made females of every other creature. Anyway she is tricked by a snake, and punished with pain in childbirth and to be dominated by man.

What did the female animals do to be cursed with painful young bearing? Obviously he knew of procreation.

That is just the first 3 chapters. Common sense should had told me to stop reading at that point but I continued, to be truly horrified by an evil God.

 

[Programmer]

Usually hear we have free will and not even God can take it away. Yet didn't God 'harden' pharaoh's heart forcing him into refusing the Jews their freedom? And on multiple occasions?

Free will's like gravity. If Jesus walks on water, so be it, but humans can't simply intercede on someone else's will. Like gravity, we have work to do not being gods: we have to coerce other's will.

 

[Meriweather]

Usually hear we have free will and not even God can take it away. Yet didn't God 'harden' pharaoh's heart forcing him into refusing the Jews their freedom? And on multiple occasions?

Ever notice how arguing with a person often causes them to dig in? God sent many signs/signals that Pharaoh should let the Israelites go. Many were very convincing, but while Pharaoh may have wavered a time or two, in the end, he always dug in.

This is a good example of being between a rock and a hard place. Don't argue at all, and nothing changes; we argue, and we harden people's hearts.

 

[onefour1]

If free will did not exist, force would be God's only alternative to us being good. But would we really be good beings if we are forced to be so? A truly good being is one who chooses good of their own volition. Free will is essential for beings to truly become good.

 

[Meriweather]

If free will did not exist, force would be God's only alternative to us being good. But would we really be good beings if we are forced to be so? A truly good being is one who chooses good of their own volition. Free will is essential for beings to truly become good.

Along with this, I have another idea about why free will is important to our development. Imagine being enveloped in God's unconditional love our entire existence. We are loved, and cannot imagine anything but loving in return. But...what might we be like if separated from this love? Would we still be willing to love, or are we so weak, that outside of God's presence we fail in love?

I think there is a great possibility that this life is meant to teach and demonstrate to us that we, ourselves, have the intrinsic ability--and the will--to love.

 

[Mudda]

There is no free will in religion, you either believe the dogma hook, line and sinker, or they boot you out. God also didn't give free will, you either follow "his" book, or he'll burn you in hell. Anyone who calls that a choice is an idiot.

 

[Bonzi]

One explanation..... (not mine, see link)

The Hebrew word translated harden "literally signifies to strengthen, confirm, make bold or courageous." An illustration commonly heard is that of a sponge squeezed (made hard) in the hand. Anything that comes forth from the squeezed sponge was already there. When God "hardened" Pharaoh's heart, He simply forced out what was already there, strengthening Pharaoh's own convictions

Question: Did God take away Pharaoh's free will when He "hardened Pharaoh's heart" (Exodus 10:1-2)? What verses point to free will in the Bible? | thebereancall.org

 

[Bonzi]

There is no free will in religion, you either believe the dogma hook, line and sinker, or they boot you out. God also didn't give free will, you either follow "his" book, or he'll burn you in hell. Anyone who calls that a choice is an idiot.

Everyone has free will. But you can willingly sacrifice your own will for God's will.
No one makes you do it.
Living for God should be done willingly. If not, you are not a Christian.
You only go to hell when you don't accept that Jesus died for your sins and receive him as your Lord and savoir. God gave us an out, if you choose not to accept it that is your choice...... God is not sending you to Hell for not living biblically....

 

[Mudda]

There is no free will in religion, you either believe the dogma hook, line and sinker, or they boot you out. God also didn't give free will, you either follow "his" book, or he'll burn you in hell. Anyone who calls that a choice is an idiot.

Everyone has free will. But you can willingly sacrifice your own will for God's will.
No one makes you do it.
Living for God should be done willingly. If not, you are not a Christian.
You only go to hell when you don't accept that Jesus died for your sins and receive him as your Lord and savoir. God gave us an out, if you choose not to accept it that is your choice...... God is not sending you to Hell for not living biblically....

"You only go to hell when you don't accept that Jesus died for your sins and receive him as your Lord and saviour".
That's in the bible, so god is sending me to hell for not following a book. Or as you call it "living biblically".
Question: by living biblically, do you mean that doing it doggy style is out or you go to hell?