Zone1 Do most Americans Believe Peace With Russia is Advisable?

[Donald H]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/18/politics/polling-ukraine-russia/index.html

As the risk of nuclear war becomes more likely, is it time to talk about a peace settlement with Russia?

In Monmouth’s polling, 81% of Americans support the economic sanctions imposed on Russia, even as 33% say in a separate question that these sanctions are doing a lot to hurt the US economy. In a Pew Research survey, 85% of Americans favor keeping strict economic sanctions on Russia. [

If protecting the Ukraine is America's goal and end game, then is there anything left to protect. And is an escalation of the war a wise decision, due to Russia's stated determination?

Is Russia bluffing?

 

[Rambunctious]

Its imperative and a national security must to repair our relationship with Russia... a bunch of butthurt dems who dreamed of a Hillary presidency has got to get over their hatred of Putin... its either we befriend Russia or China will....
And this stupid war in Ukraine that Biden allowed to happen is in the way of that ever happening...

 

[Donald H]

Its imperative and a national security must to repair our relationship with Russia... a bunch of butthurt dems who dreamed of a Hillary presidency has got to get over their hatred of Putin... its either we befriend Russia or China will....
And this stupid war in Ukraine that Biden allowed to happen is in the way of that ever happening...

Introducing domestic politics has to be done with discretion so as not to alienate half the forum, please!
And thank you for your reply that has nevertheless offered a few debatable points.

I agree with you that it's time to negotiate peace. There's just nothing to gain with more war.

 

[SavannahMann]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/18/politics/polling-ukraine-russia/index.html

As the risk of nuclear war becomes more likely, is it time to talk about a peace settlement with Russia?



If protecting the Ukraine is America's goal and end game, then is there anything left to protect. And is an escalation of the war a wise decision, due to Russia's stated determination?

Is Russia bluffing?

Happy to talk peace. All Russia has to do is get back across the line to their own nation and we can start lifting sanctions. Easy isn’t it?

 

[rightwinger]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/18/politics/polling-ukraine-russia/index.html

As the risk of nuclear war becomes more likely, is it time to talk about a peace settlement with Russia?



If protecting the Ukraine is America's goal and end game, then is there anything left to protect. And is an escalation of the war a wise decision, due to Russia's stated determination?

Is Russia bluffing?

By peace with Russia do you mean Russia takes what it wants or that Russia pack up and go home?

 

[rightwinger]

Its imperative and a national security must to repair our relationship with Russia... a bunch of butthurt dems who dreamed of a Hillary presidency has got to get over their hatred of Putin... its either we befriend Russia or China will....
And this stupid war in Ukraine that Biden allowed to happen is in the way of that ever happening...

What conditions would you offer for peace?

 

[Donald H]

By peace with Russia do you mean Russia takes what it wants or that Russia pack up and go home?

There could be a middle of the road solution. Russia 'does' have an incentive to negotiate, as does America. I don't imagine that Russia will ever return the Ukrainian land they've gained, but there can still be peace that would be acceptable for the Ukraine.

A return to the existing status in the Crimea is essential for Russia and can be completely acceptable to the UKraine too.

The rest of the territory taken by Russia can become neutral.

As I've suggested elsewhere, America needs to give up on it's ambitions of Nato encroachment on Russia's borders. A guarantee of neutrality by Russia would make that possible.

Think of this as Russia's opening bid, and not a hard position. Offer an alternative.

There's nothing to stop us on this forum from playing with the question.

 

[SavannahMann]

There could be a middle of the road solution. Russia 'does' have an incentive to negotiate, as does America. I don't imagine that Russia will ever return the Ukrainian land they've gained, but there can still be peace that would be acceptable for the Ukraine.

A return to the existing status in the Crimea is essential for Russia and can be completely acceptable to the UKraine too.

The rest of the territory taken by Russia can become neutral.

As I've suggested elsewhere, America needs to give up on it's ambitions of Nato encroachment on Russia's borders. A guarantee of neutrality by Russia would make that possible.

Think of this as Russia's opening bid, and not a hard position. Offer an alternative.

There's nothing to stop us on this forum from playing with the question.

Here is the problem with your position Scooter. It rewards bad behavior. That is intolerable to the rest of the world. It is intolerable to a vast majority of Americans. Nothing is worse than that to our way of thinking. Want to go full war? Good. Let’s go. Want to go Nuclear? Ok. But remember. We have them too. In fact. A lot of us have them. Missiles flying in from England, France, and the US.

It’s time for the Russians to go home and stop dreaming of a new Russian Empire.

 

[Donald H]

Happy to talk peace. All Russia has to do is get back across the line to their own nation and we can start lifting sanctions. Easy isn’t it?

I think Russia would prefer to be able to get back across the line!

Russia wants border security so that they can do so.

I think that both Russia and America finally understand that they're facing a foe against whom they can't win.

The effectiveness of the sanctions against Russia is a side issue that I would suggest is only going to complicate the main issue of peace.

 

[Donald H]

Here is the problem with your position Scooter. It rewards bad behavior. That is intolerable to the rest of the world. It is intolerable to a vast majority of Americans. Nothing is worse than that to our way of thinking. Want to go full war? Good. Let’s go. Want to go Nuclear? Ok. But remember. We have them too. In fact. A lot of us have them. Missiles flying in from England, France, and the US.

It’s time for the Russians to go home and stop dreaming of a new Russian Empire.

You're basing your argument on the premise that Russia is intent on a new empire that would include most of Europe.

I fully understand that is a serious American talking point.

I'll only politely restate my point that Russia is only interested in border security.

 

[rightwinger]

There could be a middle of the road solution. Russia 'does' have an incentive to negotiate, as does America. I don't imagine that Russia will ever return the Ukrainian land they've gained, but there can still be peace that would be acceptable for the Ukraine.

A return to the existing status in the Crimea is essential for Russia and can be completely acceptable to the UKraine too.

The rest of the territory taken by Russia can become neutral.

As I've suggested elsewhere, America needs to give up on it's ambitions of Nato encroachment on Russia's borders. A guarantee of neutrality by Russia would make that possible.

Think of this as Russia's opening bid, and not a hard position. Offer an alternative.

There's nothing to stop us on this forum from playing with the question.

Everything you posted is a win for Russia

What do you propose that helps Ukraine?

Let me give you a start. I don’t think Ukraine would accept any peace that didn’t include membership in NATO.

 

[SavannahMann]

I think Russia would prefer to be able to get back across the line!

Russia wants border security so that they can do so.

I think that both Russia and America finally understand that they're facing a foe against whom they can't win.

The effectiveness of the sanctions against Russia is a side issue that I would suggest is only going to complicate the main issue of peace.

Nonsense. We defeated the Soviets. They collapsed economically once before. We can do it to them again. And we will.

We will just keep moving forward as Russia struggles to remain stagnant. Counting on Chinese charity to keep from falling even further behind. Willing to sell their souls to the Chinese to keep from losing face with the West.

This is why they are flexing the Nuclear option now. They know this is make or break. They don’t have anything else in the cupboard.

 

[Donald H]

Everything you posted is a win for Russia

What do you propose that helps Ukraine?

Let me give you a start. I don’t think Ukraine would accept any peace that didn’t include membership in NATO.

I don't really believe that membership in Nato is the prime issue. The issue is really the Ukraine gaining the protection of Nato's article 5.

Understand this: Art.5 protection is impossible in the midst of a hot war. I think you understand the reason why.

Our discussion between us of that fact might be enlightening to others?

There is an alternative being offered by Russia that is possible and that is a guaranteed neutrality that includes America's power as the guarantee.

 

[Donald H]

Nonsense. We defeated the Soviets. They collapsed economically once before. We can do it to them again. And we will.

Russia was never defeated but might (nuclear) have been weakened to a position in which America could have done so if the appropriate diplomatic measures were taken. America felt ensured that it was taking the right measures to defeat Russia for a short period of time in the spring of 22.

There is a possibility being voiced that is saying that Russia is now the superior fighting force. I won't belabour the point because it requires a lengthy discussion that would lead us off-topic.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't really believe that membership in Nato is the prime issue. The issue is really the Ukraine gaining the protection of Nato's article 5.

Understand this: Art.5 protection is impossible in the midst of a hot war. I think you understand the reason why.

Our discussion between us of that fact might be enlightening to others?

There is an alternative being offered by Russia that is possible and that is a guaranteed neutrality that includes America's power as the guarantee.

Still waiting for what is in your peace proposal that benefits Ukraine?

 

[Foxfyre]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/18/politics/polling-ukraine-russia/index.html

As the risk of nuclear war becomes more likely, is it time to talk about a peace settlement with Russia?



If protecting the Ukraine is America's goal and end game, then is there anything left to protect. And is an escalation of the war a wise decision, due to Russia's stated determination?

Is Russia bluffing?

Putin is a dictator and killer, but he's not unintelligent nor insane. I don't believe he wants nuclear war any more than anybody else. I concur that sanctions should be kept on Russia until they stop making economic and/or shooting war on their neighbors. But in answer to your question, world peace is in the interest of America and Americans. We had the closest thing to that I've ever experienced during the first Trump presidency. I know he's the ONLY one capable of and motivated to giving us that again if it can be done at all.

The incongruous part in all this and what starts making it somewhat absurd is that Russia's embassy is staffed and open in Washington DC and the U.S. embassy is staffed and open in Moscow.

 

[Donald H]

Alright then, if we can't have a rational and polite discussion, then Arrogance deserves nothing better than arrogance in return.

The Ukraine is due to lose another 100,000 to 300,000 soldiers and America doesn't care! Yet!

Nothing can benefit the Ukraine's 700,000 dead soldiers..

 

[rightwinger]

Alright then, if we can't have a rational and polite discussion, then Arrogance deserves nothing better than arrogance in return.

The Ukraine is due to lose another 100,000 to 300,000 soldiers and America doesn't care! Yet!

Nothing can benefit the Ukraine's 700,000 dead soldiers..

You still haven’t said what your peace offer does for Ukraine.
They give everything up, Russia gets what it wants

 

[Donald H]

Putin is a dictator and killer, but he's not unintelligent nor insane. I don't believe he wants nuclear war any more than anybody else.

Putin isn't a dictator and he fears nuclear war fully as much as all Americans.

I concur that sanctions should be kept on Russia until they stop making economic and/or shooting war on their neighbors. But in answer to your question, world peace is in the interest of America and Americans. We had the closest thing to that I've ever experienced during the first Trump presidency. I know he's the ONLY one capable of and motivated to giving us that again if it can be done at all.

America's sanctions against Russia have served to harden the military resolve of the Brics.

I think that Trump understands the threat of nuclear war more than Biden because he believes that the only threat to his future prosperity is a war that would throw a monkey wrench into everything.

So you're exactly right and most Americans at least subconsciously understand that Trump's first priority will be talking with Putin.

It doesn't matter right now on whether that would be concessions to Putin or it would be demands that Russia surrender.

The hope at least is a better proposition than Biden and nuclear war.

(fwiw, America's relevant powers won't allow Trump to pull the nuclear trigger)

How will they stop Trump? Think outside the box.

 

[Donald H]

You still haven’t said what your peace offer does for Ukraine.
They give everything up, Russia gets what it wants

Russia gets what they want because they've won the war against the Ukraine.
They haven't won or lost the war against America yet.