Beyond the neocon debacle to Peace in Ukraine

[Baron]

Jeffrey Sachs, former director of the Earth Institute at Columbia University, advisor to the United Nations and economics professor who has been diplomatically active in more than 100 countries for decades, has called on the White House to conduct peace negotiations and prevent Ukraine from joining NATO.

The White House refused on the grounds that anyone has the right to join NATO if they want to. But as Sachs noted, this is not about Ukraine's "right" to join NATO, but about the threat it poses to its neighbors, especially Russia.

Russia has long made it clear that it will not allow Ukraine to join NATO for the simple reason that it would mean a NATO military presence right on its border. Russia wants Ukraine to remain an independent "buffer zone" between itself and the NATO countries.

Would it be okay for the US if Mexico entered into a military alliance with China and stationed Chinese military on the southern border, Sachs wonders. That is highly unlikely, but that is exactly what is being sought in Ukraine.

Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the US has driven the escalation of the conflict to the point where nuclear war came into play. Why would the US take such a risk? To stand up for Ukraine's "right" to join NATO? It's beyond irrational, but we've come that far.

Beyond the Neocon Debacle to Peace in Ukraine — Jeffrey D. Sachs

Jeffrey D. Sachs We are entering the end stage of the 30-year US neocon debacle in Ukraine. The neocon plan to surround Russia in the Black Sea region by NATO has failed. Decisions now by the US and Russia will matter enormously for peace, security, and wellbeing for the entire world. Four eve

www.jeffsachs.org

JEFFREY D. SACHS​

We are entering the end stage of the 30-year US neocon debacle in Ukraine. The neocon plan to surround Russia in the Black Sea region by NATO has failed. Decisions now by the US and Russia will matter enormously for peace, security, and wellbeing for the entire world.

Four events have shattered the neocon hopes for NATO enlargement eastward, to Ukraine, Georgia, and onward. The first is straightforward. Ukraine has been devastated on the battlefield, with tragic and appalling losses. Russia is winning the war of attrition, an outcome that was predictable from the start but which the neocons and mainstream media deny till today.

The second is the collapsing support in Europe for the US neocon strategy. Poland no longer speaks with Ukraine. Hungary has long opposed the neocons. Slovakia has elected an anti-neocon government. EU leaders (Macron, Meloni, Sanchez, Scholz, Sunak, and others) have disapproval ratings far higher than approvals.

The third is the cut in US financial support for Ukraine. The Republican Party grassroots, several Republican Presidential candidates, and a growing number of Republican members of Congress, oppose more spending on Ukraine. In the stop-gap bill to keep the government running, Republicans stripped away new financial support for Ukraine. The White House has called for new aid legislation, but this will be an uphill fight.

The fourth, and most urgent from Ukraine’s point of view, is the likelihood of a Russian offensive. Ukraine’s casualties are in the hundreds of thousands, and Ukraine has burned through its artillery, air defenses, tanks, and others heavy weapons. Russia is likely to follow with a massive offensive.

The neocons have created utter disasters in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and now Ukraine. The US political system has not yet held the neocons to account, since foreign policy is carried out with little public or Congressional scrutiny to date. Mainstream media have sided with the slogans of the neocons.

Ukraine is at risk of economic, demographic and military collapse. What should the US Government do to face this potential disaster?

Urgently, it should change course. Britain advises the US to escalate, as Britain is stuck with 19th century imperial reveries. US neocons are stuck with imperial bravado. Cooler heads urgently need to prevail.

President Joe Biden should immediately inform President Vladimir Putin that the US will end NATO enlargement eastward if the US and Russia reach a new agreement on security arrangements. By ending NATO expansion, the US can still save Ukraine from the policy debacles of the past 30 years.

Biden should agree to negotiate a security arrangement of the kind, though not precise details, of President Putin’s proposals of December 17, 2021. Biden foolishly refused to negotiate with Putin in December 2021. It’s time to negotiate now.

There are four keys to an agreement. First, as part of an overall agreement Biden should agree that NATO will not enlarge eastward, but not reverse the past NATO enlargement. NATO would of course not tolerate Russian encroachments in existing NATO states. Both Russia and the US would pledge to avoid provocations near Russia’s borders, including provocative missile placement, military exercises, and the like.

Second, the new US – Russia security agreement should cover nuclear weapons. The US unilateral withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002, followed by the placement of Aegis missiles in Poland and Romania, gravely inflamed tensions, which were further exacerbated by the US withdrawal from the Intermediate Nuclear Force (INF) Agreement in 2019 and Russia’s suspension of the New Start Treaty in 2023. Russian leaders have repeatedly pointed to US missiles near Russia, unconstrained by the abandoned ABM Treaty, as a dire threat to Russia’s national security.

Third, Russia and Ukraine would agree on new borders, in which the overwhelmingly ethnic Russian Crimea and heavily ethnic Russian districts of eastern Ukraine would remain part of Russia. The border changes would be accompanied by security guarantees for Ukraine backed unanimously by the UN Security Council and other states such as Germany, Turkey, and India.

Fourth, as part of a settlement, the US, Russia, and EU would re-establish trade, finance, cultural exchange, and tourist relations. It’s certainly time once again to hear Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky in US and European concert halls.

Border changes are a last resort, and should be made only under UN Security Council auspices. They must never be an invitation to further territorial demands, such as by Russia regarding ethnic Russians in other countries. Yet borders change, and the US has recently backed two border changes. NATO bombed Serbia for 78 days until it relinquished the Albanian-majority region of Kosovo. In 2008, the US recognized Kosovo as a sovereign nation. The US similarly backed South Sudan’s insurgency to break away from Sudan.

If Russia, Ukraine, or the US subsequently violated the new agreement, they would be challenging the rest of the world. As JFK observed, “even the most hostile nations can be relied upon to accept and keep those treaty obligations, and only those treaty obligations, which are in their own interest.”

The US neocons carry much blame for undermining Ukraine’s 1991 borders. Russia did not claim Crimea until after the US-backed overthrow of Ukraine’s President Viktor Yanukovych in 2014. Nor did Russia annex the Donbas after 2014, instead calling on Ukraine to honor the UN-backed Minsk II agreement, based on autonomy for the Donbas. The neocons preferred to arm Ukraine to retake the Donbas by force rather than grant the Donbas autonomy.

The long-term key to peace in Europe is collective security as called for by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE). According to OSCE agreements, OSCE member states “will not strengthen their security at the expense of the security of other States.” Neocon unilateralism undermined Europe’s collective security by pushing NATO enlargement without regard to third parties, notably Russia. Europe — including the EU, Russia, and Ukraine — needs more OSCE and less neocon unilateralism as key to lasting peace in Europe.

 

[Donald H]

Sachs is one of the few great Americans who take part in US affairs that are of importance to the rest of the world! More can be said later. But wait!

Nato can declare the Ukraine to be a Nato country at any time. Why doesn't it?

Simply because Russia will refuse to recognize it.

And then what will that mean to Nato?

Article 5 will be ignored in the case of the Ukraine.

Why is this the cause of any confusion?

In actual fact, the Ukraine is not being allowed to be a Nato country because Russia won't allow it.

Has anyone understood what I've said, and can offer a better explanation?

When will Russia allow the Ukraine to join Nato? Never!

 

[Donald H]

Further to the obvious, if a Nato country directly strikes Russia, that will be when Russia ignores Article 5.
That means that Article 5 prohibits any Nato member from acting directly against Russia, as well as the reciprocal agreement by Russia to not act directly against any Nato country.

And of course Article 5 prohibits Nato from taking in the Ukraine.

 

[Baron]

When will Russia allow the Ukraine to join Nato? Never!

When NATO will accept Russia as equal partner and go to its borders of 1990s
Never
So, nuclear WWIII coming

 

[Baron]

Further to the obvious, if a Nato country directly strikes Russia, that will be when Russia ignores Article 5.
That means that Article 5 prohibits any Nato member from acting directly against Russia, as well as the reciprocal agreement by Russia to not act directly against any Nato country.

And of course Article 5 prohibits Nato from taking in the Ukraine.

A advise you to watch the great movie 'Don't look up'
The situation is similar
NATO playing with WWIII possibility and forget about Russian Sarmat missiles.

The RS-28 Sarmat is capable of carrying 10 tonnes of payload, of ten 750 kiloton or 15 lighter MIRV warheads, and up to 24 Avangard hypersonic glide vehicles (HGVs) or a combination of warheads and several countermeasures against anti-ballistic missile systems.

Twenty Sarmats missiles and NATO countries are history

 

[Donald H]

A advise you to watch the great movie 'Don't look up'
The situation is similar
NATO playing with WWIII possibility and forget about Russian Sarmat missiles.

The RS-28 Sarmat is capable of carrying 10 tonnes of payload, of ten 750 kiloton or 15 lighter MIRV warheads, and up to 24 Avangard hypersonic glide vehicles (HGVs) or a combination of warheads and several countermeasures against anti-ballistic missile systems.

Twenty Sarmats missiles and NATO countries are history

I hope you understood. I think you did.

I don't agree with your nuclear conclusions. Great care and precautions are being taken by both sides.

I have to suspect that both Russia and America are o.k. with the war so far.

For Putin's part, he is rising to the challenge that will most likely be the final challenge of consequence to Russia as a great and powerful player in the world.

 

[Litwin]

Jeffrey Sachs

any comments ?

 

[Litwin]

your nuclear

 

[Litwin]

Russia

 

[Donald H]

Who or what is stopping Nato from declaring the remainder of the Ukraine from being a Nato country.

This is an offer of allowing you to debate as opposed to the continuous spamming you do that nobody answers.

It's my last offer.

 

[ThirdTerm]

Jeffrey Sachs, former director of the Earth Institute at Columbia University, advisor to the United Nations and economics professor who has been diplomatically active in more than 100 countries for decades, has called on the White House to conduct peace negotiations and prevent Ukraine from joining NATO.

The White House refused on the grounds that anyone has the right to join NATO if they want to. But as Sachs noted, this is not about Ukraine's "right" to join NATO, but about the threat it poses to its neighbors, especially Russia.

Jeffrey Sachs is on the same page. I have posted the same argument in my thread even before reading this post. The Biden family's business interests in Ukraine are an obvious stumbling block for peace in Ukraine.

The Fall of Marinka

Valerii Zaluzhnyi, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, believes that there is nothing controversial about the fact that Ukrainian soldiers have stepped back to the outskirts of the town of Marinka, which the Russians have been devastating street by street and house by house for...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Baron]

Who or what is stopping Nato from declaring the remainder of the Ukraine from being a Nato country.

Nothing can stop NATO, indeed, absolutely nothing!
It's proven, the quackcine against the covidscam severely damages brain, therefore understandable most of western peoples can't grasp what's going on
Both Putin and Zelensky are criminals who provoked the brother war and enjoy murdering of innocent on both sides.
But more criminal are gullible idiots who believe any sh.. coming from any political office or presstitute.
Look the great movie, it's about naive people like you

 

[Donald H]

Nothing can stop NATO, indeed, absolutely nothing!
It's proven, the quackcine against the covidscam severely damages brain, therefore understandable most of western peoples can't grasp what's going on
Both Putin and Zelensky are criminals who provoked the brother war and enjoy murdering of innocent on both sides.
But more criminal are gullible idiots who believe any sh.. coming from any political office or presstitute.
Look the great movie, it's about naive people like you

You misunderstood. Nato wants the Ukraine in the fold so what's stopping them?

It can't be anything other than it would be a fatal blow to their Article 5. Nato would be obliged to go to war against Russia.

This brings up the interesting question on what it would take to allow the Ukraine in?

The only possibility is after Russia is defeated, and then there would be no purpose.

The Ukraine's admission to Nato can never serve any purpose unless the Ukraine is given limited membership without Article 5 protection, and that would be a direct insult to Nato's power.

And so why? Why wasn't the Ukraine made a Nato membet in March of 22?

 

[Rigby5]

Sachs is one of the few great Americans who take part in US affairs that are of importance to the rest of the world! More can be said later. But wait!

Nato can declare the Ukraine to be a Nato country at any time. Why doesn't it?

Simply because Russia will refuse to recognize it.

And then what will that mean to Nato?

Article 5 will be ignored in the case of the Ukraine.

Why is this the cause of any confusion?

In actual fact, the Ukraine is not being allowed to be a Nato country because Russia won't allow it.

Has anyone understood what I've said, and can offer a better explanation?

When will Russia allow the Ukraine to join Nato? Never!

The US and NATO are in violation of treaties and promises made starting back in the 90's, when we promised no eastern NATO expansion.
This is the same as the Cuban Missile Crisis, where the US had to back down an remove missiles in Turkey, in order to get rid of nukes in Cuba.

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong.
The ratio between the US dollar and the Ruble is irrelevant since Russia buys nothing from us.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Sachs is one of the few great Americans who take part in US affairs that are of importance to the rest of the world! More can be said later. But wait!

Nato can declare the Ukraine to be a Nato country at any time. Why doesn't it?

Simply because Russia will refuse to recognize it.

And then what will that mean to Nato?

Article 5 will be ignored in the case of the Ukraine.

Why is this the cause of any confusion?

In actual fact, the Ukraine is not being allowed to be a Nato country because Russia won't allow it.

Has anyone understood what I've said, and can offer a better explanation?

When will Russia allow the Ukraine to join Nato? Never!

I have to think you are right about that. Dissappointing.

Dissappointing because I would rather it be because the U.S. wisely has not allowed yet another freeloading nation to enjoy our protection while refusing to pay its fair share.

 

[Rigby5]

Nothing can stop NATO, indeed, absolutely nothing!
It's proven, the quackcine against the covidscam severely damages brain, therefore understandable most of western peoples can't grasp what's going on
Both Putin and Zelensky are criminals who provoked the brother war and enjoy murdering of innocent on both sides.
But more criminal are gullible idiots who believe any sh.. coming from any political office or presstitute.
Look the great movie, it's about naive people like you

No, the criminal is not Putin or Zelensky, but the Bidens who bribed the 2014 Maidan coup.
Russia can never allow US nukes on its border since they would hit their targets before detection, so would give the US a first strike capability.
The only course of action for Russia if the Ukraine did somehow join NATO, would be to resort to pre-emptive nukes against the US and the Ukraine.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The US and NATO are in violation of treaties and promises made starting back in the 90's, when we promised no eastern NATO expansion.
This is the same as the Cuban Missile Crisis, where the US had to back down an remove missiles in Turkey, in order to get rid of nukes in Cuba.

There were no such treaty or promise to be in violation of

 

[Soupnazi630]

No, the criminal is not Putin or Zelensky, but the Bidens who bribed the 2014 Maidan coup.
Russia can never allow US nukes on its border since they would hit their targets before detection, so would give the US a first strike capability.
The only course of action for Russia if the Ukraine did somehow join NATO, would be to resort to pre-emptive nukes against the US and the Ukraine.

They bribed no one in that coup

The US has no need or wish to put nukes there.

Russia will never launch nukes as it would mean their complete destruction

 

[Deadstick]

Jeffrey Sachs, former director of the Earth Institute at Columbia University, advisor to the United Nations and economics professor who has been diplomatically active in more than 100 countries for decades, has called on the White House to conduct peace negotiations and prevent Ukraine from joining NATO.

The White House refused on the grounds that anyone has the right to join NATO if they want to. But as Sachs noted, this is not about Ukraine's "right" to join NATO, but about the threat it poses to its neighbors, especially Russia.

Russia has long made it clear that it will not allow Ukraine to join NATO for the simple reason that it would mean a NATO military presence right on its border. Russia wants Ukraine to remain an independent "buffer zone" between itself and the NATO countries.

Would it be okay for the US if Mexico entered into a military alliance with China and stationed Chinese military on the southern border, Sachs wonders. That is highly unlikely, but that is exactly what is being sought in Ukraine.

Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the US has driven the escalation of the conflict to the point where nuclear war came into play. Why would the US take such a risk? To stand up for Ukraine's "right" to join NATO? It's beyond irrational, but we've come that far.

Beyond the Neocon Debacle to Peace in Ukraine — Jeffrey D. Sachs

Jeffrey D. Sachs We are entering the end stage of the 30-year US neocon debacle in Ukraine. The neocon plan to surround Russia in the Black Sea region by NATO has failed. Decisions now by the US and Russia will matter enormously for peace, security, and wellbeing for the entire world. Four eve

www.jeffsachs.org

They are unhinged, i remember a few years ago talking to a friend, i said at the time Russia will not tolerate Ukraine in Nato, Russia wanted a understanding for a security framework in Europe, they were ignored and more or less told to sit down and be silent, that is why we are in this situation now, all Ukraine had to do was agree to be a neutral Country, but they didn't they allowed themselves to be used as a spear against their neighbour.