Did Jesus die on the cross just so we can now eat a Ham sandwich ?

[Meriweather]

But Paul messes it all up and says no one will enter the kingdom of heaven

Jesus said the Kingdom of heaven is at hand (within reach). You enter the Kingdom right now, today, by the way you behave. (God's will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.) You discern the will of God, and you follow it. God's will is based on love of Him and love of one's fellow man.

 

[BackAgain]

Did Jesus die on the cross just so we can now eat a Ham sandwich ?​

Just?

 

[Meriweather]

If you read Paul's letters (hint if you want to find the commands, can't be drunk,

Paul is simply noting that if one is filled with drunkenness, one cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit. Filled with drunkenness does not mean occasionally drinking too much, it means one's life is devoted to drunkenness over things of the spirit.

 

[Meriweather]

I am not angry, I have mixed feelings about paul, James writes his book and then Paul writes Galatians to dispute it.

James and Paul were not in dispute with each other. Then, just like today, people jump overboard. For example, James (like Jesus) is talking about living in the kingdom (meaning God's kingdom on earth). Kingdom living is doing what is good and loving in our every day life, with the every day people who make up our life.

Somehow, people got the idea that this talk of the kingdom referenced the afterlife, and one earned their way into it with good deeds. Paul was explaining the Kingdom (starting in this life and extending into eternity) is God's gift to us. We don't have to earn our way in, we can simply walk in by discerning and following the ways of God, where our sins (shortcomings) are forgiven.

Again, people jumped overboard with this, thinking, Be baptized and even after living a life of debauchery, one enters into heaven because Christ covers their sins and shortcomings. We are to live a life in the Spirit throughout this life--and one cannot live both in the Spirit and in debauchery.

People reading modern English might think Paul and James are in disagreement. They are not. They are simply correcting misconceptions.

 

[Meriweather]

All I know of the Hebrew religion is my bible and I read it the way I comprehend it, to me it says you can get salvation under the laws of Moses

Correct. The Old Covenant (through the Law) is eternal. So is the New Covenant (through Jesus). A circle may be a good analogy of this. Love of Law leads to love of God. Jesus taught love of God being first and foremost--and that leads to love of His Law. Entering the circle at either point leads to--and encompasses--salvation.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Think about it and read your bible what exactly changed from the old Testament laws and Paul's commands in his letters?

My only conclusion is we now can eat a Ham sandwich and that's it

Another thing if Jesus ended the old laws why does everyone post the 10 commandments on their lawns?

A few things, bear. Jesus didn't do away with the Law, He fulfilled it.
Matthew 5:17-22
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill".

^For every Jew who could not. Which was every Jew. Animal blood covered their sins temporarily, but Christ's blood covered their sins permanently. They rejected it.
The Jews boasted they could keep all 600+ rules, so God gave it to them. They turned a Father, who forgave them while they were still committing the sin, into a Judge who judged them according to the Law. And He hates that role. So, he sent them a better covenant, Jesus.

We usurped 10 of those Jewish commandments as words to live by. Not as Law. By Law, if you break one, you have broken them all. Jesus replaced them all with one word. Love.

As for ham. This is how loving our Father really is:
If you eat ham as a sacrifice to our Father, he counts it as righteousness on your behalf... If you avoid ham as a sacrifice to our Father, he counts it as righteousness on your part...
But that's not it.
Jesus suffered and died to assume your guilt and punishment and gave you His sin free record in place of yours. A sin free record is a requirement for entrance to the Kingdom of God. He provided you with that, and a ham sandwich with chips, a mansion in Heaven, a seat at God's table, various crowns, and made you His co-heir.
^ So, there's that too...

 

[Wyatt earp]

A few things, bear. Jesus didn't do away with the Law, He fulfilled it.
Matthew 5:17-22
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill".

^For every Jew who could not. Which was every Jew. Animal blood covered their sins temporarily, but Christ's blood covered their sins permanently. They rejected it.
The Jews boasted they could keep all 600+ rules, so God gave it to them. They turned a Father, who forgave them while they were still committing the sin, into a Judge who judged them according to the Law. And He hates that role. So, he sent them a better covenant, Jesus.

We usurped 10 of those Jewish commandments as words to live by. Not as Law. By Law, if you break one, you have broken them all. Jesus replaced them all with one word. Love.

As for ham. This is how loving our Father really is:
If you eat ham as a sacrifice to our Father, he counts it as righteousness on your behalf... If you avoid ham as a sacrifice to our Father, he counts it as righteousness on your part...
But that's not it.
Jesus suffered and died to assume your guilt and punishment and gave you His sin free record in place of yours. A sin free record is a requirement for entrance to the Kingdom of God. He provided you with that, and a ham sandwich with chips, a mansion in Heaven, a seat at God's table, various crowns, and made you His co-heir.
^ So, there's that too...

Well thought out post and from your heart, thank you

 

[onefour1]

The biggest thing that came with the gospel of Jesus Christ is the gift of the Holy Ghost. No longer were the words of God only written upon tables of stone but were then written upon the fleshy tables of our hearts.

One must also know 2 things:

1. The atonement of Jesus Christ is retroactive to the past as well as proactive for the present and future. His atonement covers all.

2. The gospel does not end at death but is also taught to the dead and they have the opportunity to still accept it.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4;6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:29​

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

We are judged according to our works in this life but there are many who never had the opportunity to even hear the gospel in this life. God being a fair and just God allows for all to have the opportunity to receive or reject his gospel. Ordinances for the dead were also performed so that they could receive baptism and all other ordinances of the gospel. As stated above, the ordinance of the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost was not had on earth from the time of Moses to the time of John the Baptist. It is also an essential ordinance of salvation just as baptism is.

 

[norwegen]

Someone please tell me why a lot of Christians don't want to work on sunday???

Again I thought in the book of Galatians Jesus set everyone free from the old laws?

He set everyone free from the old law? So, not just dietary laws, then, but also civil and ceremonial laws?

Yes, he did set people free from those laws. Not everyone; just people. Israel, specifically. No one else was ever under the temple law's jurisdiction.

Christians just don't want to work on Sundays; they have no law against it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

He set everyone free from the old law? So, not just dietary laws, then, but also civil and ceremonial laws?

Yes, he did set people free from those laws. Not everyone; just people. Israel, specifically. No one else was ever under the temple law's jurisdiction.

Christians just don't want to work on Sundays; they have no law against it.

Great point I waay overlooked that one. The law was just for the Jews not gentiles

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Think about it and read your bible what exactly changed from the old Testament laws and Paul's commands in his letters?

My only conclusion is we now can eat a Ham sandwich and that's it

Another thing if Jesus ended the old laws why does everyone post the 10 commandments on their lawns?

 

[Baron]

Think about it and read your bible what exactly changed from the old Testament laws and Paul's commands in his letters?

My only conclusion is we now can eat a Ham sandwich and that's it

Another thing if Jesus ended the old laws why does everyone post the 10 commandments on their lawns?

As I wrote you shall first of all stop to insult Christians.
Secondly you shall have more respect to God.
Unimportant what your communist buddies tell you anyone receives final judgement in afterlife
What will you do when you know your soul is still alive and you'd been told wrong things about afterlife.
The life is short, very short, you can die tomorrow, very suddenly, so stop blasphemy and read the Holy Bible

 

[Baron]

Great point I waay overlooked that one. The law was just for the Jews not gentiles

Jews were cursed by God and serve practically Satan, not God now.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

I have been studying the NIV , old KJV (still pissed of about 1 Corinthians 13 the love chapter used to be the charity chapter) new kjv, NLT this shit is fucked up in translation.. Been studying it non stop for 5 months ...

( that's where I was/ what I have been doing)

You take out Paul's stupid letters and the new testament makes sense .

Wow, 5 months!

So glad you are here to tell the long string of doctors of the church who passed their capital along into generations of knowledge, context, and study of the bible.

I mean, thousands of years of capital through generations of theologians, doctors, etc... and here you are, spending 5 months and declaring them all wrong.

Have you ever been tested for narcissism?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Wow, 5 months!

So glad you are here to tell the long string of doctors of the church who passed their capital along into generations of knowledge, context, and study of the bible.

I mean, thousands of years of capital through generations of theologians, doctors, etc... and here you are, spending 5 months and declaring them all wrong.

Have you ever been tested for narcissism?

All that to say you have nothing to refute me?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Paul is simply noting that if one is filled with drunkenness, one cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit. Filled with drunkenness does not mean occasionally drinking too much, it means one's life is devoted to drunkenness over things of the spirit.

No he said in Galatians and Ephesians chapter 5 in most translations you will not enter the kingdom of heaven if your a drunk, that wasn't even in the old law, the closest I found was that if you had a drunken disobedient son you could stone him to death

 

[Wyatt earp]

As I wrote you shall first of all stop to insult Christians.
Secondly you shall have more respect to God.
Unimportant what your communist buddies tell you anyone receives final judgement in afterlife
What will you do when you know your soul is still alive and you'd been told wrong things about afterlife.
The life is short, very short, you can die tomorrow, very suddenly, so stop blasphemy and read the Holy Bible

What about the books like the book of Thomas that didn't make the cut?

 

[Meriweather]

No he said in Galatians and Ephesians chapter 5 in most translations you will not enter the kingdom of heaven if your a drunk, that wasn't even in the old law, the closest I found was that if you had a drunken disobedient son you could stone him to death

What do you mean, exactly, when you say, "The kingdom of heaven"?

 

[metalwolf]

Think about it and read your bible what exactly changed from the old Testament laws and Paul's commands in his letters?

My only conclusion is we now can eat a Ham sandwich and that's it

Another thing if Jesus ended the old laws why does everyone post the 10 commandments on their lawns?

According to Jesus people who proclaim themselves Christians in public are not going to inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 6:1 - Giving to the Needy

Be careful not to perform your righteous acts before men to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

biblehub.com

Matthew 6:5 - The Lord's Prayer

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward.

www.biblehub.com

 

[DudleySmith]

What about the books like the book of Thomas that didn't make the cut?

What is in Thomas that isn't in another book with much better exposition? The so-called 'book of Thomas' is mostly just a list. It's redundant, and also has little provenance behind it. Lots of writings didn't make the cut, but were still read and endorsed by Christians, like The Shepherd of Hermas.

The Shepherd of Hermas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org