Countries The U.S. "Regime Changed" - Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria Are Chaotic Messes

[MENTION=45621]1776[/MENTION] STILL no links from you :eusa_eh: We aren't just going to "take your word for it". Provide some sources or.....
 
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Bingo! They're committing horrific atrocities daily in Syria. And they're not all ISIS.

Do you have any backup for your claim that CIA vetted rebels have committed atrocities in Syria, or is this another one of your imagined news reports?

Popped back in to see that this thread has turned into a dog's breakfast. It's a long weekend up here and we're going back out fishing but I'll try to set the record straight on some items.

The FSA have committed atrocities. The information is out there.

Here's just one for example.

Syria rebels 'beheaded a Christian and fed him to the dogs' as fears grow over Islamist atrocities

Christian Andrei Arbashe, 38, was kidnapped and beheaded by rebel fighters in northern town of Ras Al-Ayn on the Turkish border

Syrian rebels beheaded a Christian man and fed his body to dogs, according to a nun who says the West is ignoring atrocities committed by Islamic extremists.

The nun said taxi driver Andrei Arbashe, 38, was kidnapped after his brother was heard complaining that fighters against the ruling regime behaved like bandits.

She said his headless corpse was found by the side of the road, surrounded by hungry dogs. He had recently married and was soon to be a father.

Sister Agnes-Mariam de la Croix said: ‘His only crime was his brother criticised the rebels, accused them of acting like bandits, which is what they are.’

There have been a growing number of accounts of atrocities carried out by rogue elements of the Syrian Free Army, which opposes dictator Bashar al-Assad and is recognised by Britain and the West as the legitimate leadership.


Syria rebels 'beheaded a Christian and fed him to the dogs' as fears grow over Islamist atrocities | Mail Online
 
Let's see who we in the west are supporting as the "good guys" against Assad. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

This one is a humdinger. I'd put cutting the heart out of someone and eating it and making a video of it right up there with "atrocity".

Well I guess Obama and other western leaders think this is AOK as long as they can depose Assad.

Here's the warning with the link:

Warning - Item Fsa terrorist cut out heart of Syrian soldier and eats it might contain content that is not suitable for all ages.

By clicking on CONTINUE you confirm that you are 18 years and over.


LiveLeak.com - Fsa terrorist cut out heart of Syrian soldier and eats it
 
There are Syrian rebels that will fight IS terrorists as well as Assad. They are the only rebels being armed by the US. If you have any reason to doubt this reality lets hear your reason for it. Repetitive chirping anout it means nothing.

Not our War. Our interference has made things worse. Should have stayed out of it. Period, end of story.

The US had stayed out of the civil war aspect of it and it got worse on its own because of Saudi and UAE and their reckless arming of the anti-government rebels. The great Prince Bandar was relieved of his post several months ago and that 'firing' came about with the emergence of ISIS as a powerful threat even to al Qaeda.

The US has convinced the Saudis and other rebel supplier Arab nations to go through the US vetting program and those states are now apparently on board.

Would you have preferred we bombed Saudi Arabia for randomly arming Syrian rebels including ISIS when we preferred that not be done?

What do Pauline-isolationists do when our allies do the wrong things?

US has been advising Saudi Arabia for some time as to who to give the weapons to. Note the date of the link I'm giving you. So please don't try to convince anyone that the US is only just now getting involved because that would be utter fucking bullshit wouldn't it now?

:D Oh and my link for you is the New York Times. You appear to be an ardent Obama supporter, so I thought I should at least give you a link you'd like.

Hey the FSA are the western leaders favorite mercenaries errrrrrrrrrr rebels. That's who has been receiving the weapons supposedly.

Oh and note the coziness of the US once again with the Muslim Brotherhood. Obama and the west love their Sunni jihadists don't they now?

C.I.A. Said to Aid in Steering Arms to Syrian OppositionBy ERIC SCHMITT
Published: June 21, 2012

WASHINGTON — A small number of C.I.A. officers are operating secretly in southern Turkey, helping allies decide which Syrian opposition fighters across the border will receive arms to fight the Syrian government, according to American officials and Arab intelligence officers.

The weapons, including automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, ammunition and some antitank weapons, are being funneled mostly across the Turkish border by way of a shadowy network of intermediaries including Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood and paid for by Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, the officials said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/w...ms-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
 
US has been advising Saudi Arabia for some time as to who to give the weapons to.

I don't dispute or disagree with that assessment from 2012 at all. What you are missing is that Saudi Arabia under Prince Bandar was not taking that advice and were arming ISIS in their own. Prince Bandar has been fired from his position as Chief Intelligence Officer because of the support and arming of ISIS and with the recent territorial gains by IS terrorists the Saudis are now running support through the US and CIA as they should have been doing all along.

My facts are correct:

Qatar’s military and economic largesse has made its way to Jabhat al-Nusra, to the point that a senior Qatari official told me he can identify al-Nusra commanders by the blocks they control in various Syrian cities. But ISIS is another matter. As one senior Qatari official stated, “ISIS has been a Saudi project.”

Are the Saudis to Blame for Iraq?

Are the Saudis to Blame for Iraq? - Defense One
 
Do you have any backup for your claim that CIA vetted rebels have committed atrocities in Syria, or is this another one of your imagined news reports?

There have been a growing number of accounts of atrocities carried out by rogue elements of the Syrian Free Army, which opposes dictator Bashar al-Assad and is recognised by Britain and the West as the legitimate leadership. [/B]

Do you know what 'rogue elements' of the FSA means? Go back to the question that I asked you? Your link is largely anecdotal without a direct tie to the FSA according to your very own source.

I'll ask again because we all know except *1776 that Christans in Syria support Assad and the Nun providing this anecdote is telling this story from Lebanon. She is not at the location where it supposedly happened.

Do you have any backup for your claim that CIA vetted rebels have committed atrocities in Syria
 
This is the Neo con failure. Regime change in Iraq will help spread democracy to the rest of the region. After all, when faced with a choice between reactionary Islam or democracy, they will choose democracy right? Hello Muslim Botherhood.
 
But where did you get that 'begging for a year' claim? Just curious.

From Maliki. .... I always back up everything I say. I prefer to use truly reliable sources such as the BBC, the CBC, France 24 and such.


I've not seen your backup for your 'begging for a year' claim.

Here you go. And please note that I am not just pissed off at Obama over this insane interference in the ME and in the Ukraine, I have been more than vocal up here. I'm a staunch Conservative and have backed Harper since he first came on the scene and I am royally pissed off at my PM playing "let's govern the world by picking new leaders" game.

Don't get me going on the Ukraine :lol: I'm bbqing now but wanted to get back to you.

I'm spitting bullets about this. Very bipartisan fury here.

Now this is not a rumor. This is the real deal right from the Capitol. You have to understand that Obama hates Maliki with a passion. Almost as much as he hates Assad,

I think he was hoping for a two for one situation. Knock out both with ISIS and/or Al Nusra and then make peace with a Sunni replacement as the head of Syria and Iraq.

He does love his Sunnis doesn't he now?

:D

Breaking on Capitol Hill is the news that Iraqi officials began requesting almost a year ago for the US to carry out drone strikes against ISIS – but the requests were shot down by the White House. That stunning revelation came during a hearing on the situation in Iraq this morning.

The Hill reports:

During a hearing on the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, House Foreign Affairs Chairman Ed Royce (R-Calif.) said the administration knew six months ago that the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS or ISIL) had established armed camps, staging areas and training grounds in Iraq’s western desert and its leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was threatening to attack the U.S.

“However, what the Administration did not say was that the Iraqi government had been urgently requesting drone strikes against ISIS camps since August 2013,” Royce continued.

“These repeated requests, unfortunately, were turned down,” he said. “I added my voice for drone strikes as ISIS convoys raced across the desert.”

The New York Times previously reported that in May 2014 Prime Minister Maliki had “secretly asked the Obama administration to consider carrying out airstrikes against extremist staging areas” and that “Iraq’s appeals for a military response have so far been rebuffed by the White House, which has been reluctant to open a new chapter in a conflict that President Obama has insisted was over when the United States withdrew the last of its forces from Iraq in 2011.”

But the fact that Iraqis have been begging for nearly a year for the US to strike ISIS with drones – and that those requests were repeatedly denied by Obama – was not previously known.

Obama regularly authorizes drone strikes against terrorist targets in Pakistan, Yemen and the Horn of Africa. The White House even boasted that the president personally approves the “kill lists” himself.



Obama refused ?repeated requests? since August 2013 for drone strikes against ISIS | AEIdeas
 
Do you have any backup for your claim that CIA vetted rebels have committed atrocities in Syria, or is this another one of your imagined news reports?

There have been a growing number of accounts of atrocities carried out by rogue elements of the Syrian Free Army, which opposes dictator Bashar al-Assad and is recognised by Britain and the West as the legitimate leadership. [/B]

Do you know what 'rogue elements' of the FSA means? Go back to the question that I asked you? Your link is largely anecdotal without a direct tie to the FSA according to your very own source.

I'll ask again because we all know except *1776 that Christans in Syria support Assad and the Nun providing this anecdote is telling this story from Lebanon. She is not at the location where it supposedly happened.

Do you have any backup for your claim that CIA vetted rebels have committed atrocities in Syria

Of course I understand the term "rogue element". No need to attempt to talk down to me.

That term was used by a journalist. It is well known that FSA has worked with al Nusra. You know. AQ in Syria.

FSA is the CIA's darling. Surely you aren't going to dispute this? Therefore if the FSA commits any atrocities and they have that would mean that the CIA's and America's little jihadist dolls weren't so sweet after all.
 
US has been advising Saudi Arabia for some time as to who to give the weapons to.

I don't dispute or disagree with that assessment from 2012 at all. What you are missing is that Saudi Arabia under Prince Bandar was not taking that advice and were arming ISIS in their own. Prince Bandar has been fired from his position as Chief Intelligence Officer because of the support and arming of ISIS and with the recent territorial gains by IS terrorists the Saudis are now running support through the US and CIA as they should have been doing all along.

My facts are correct:

Qatar’s military and economic largesse has made its way to Jabhat al-Nusra, to the point that a senior Qatari official told me he can identify al-Nusra commanders by the blocks they control in various Syrian cities. But ISIS is another matter. As one senior Qatari official stated, “ISIS has been a Saudi project.”

Are the Saudis to Blame for Iraq?

Are the Saudis to Blame for Iraq? - Defense One

I'm supposed to believe an anonymous senior official from Qatar blaming Saudi Arabia?

:lmao:

Surely you jest. Everybody has had their messy little hands in this nightmare that has spawned ISIS. Letting Baghdadi go in 2009 was a big whoopsies. Turning a blind eye to the powerful growth of ISIS all to remove Assad from power was a super whoopsies. The list is endless.
 
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Letting Baghdadi go in 2009 was a big whoopsies.


Your list is endless Obama hating conservative error and omissions;

On Pirro’s Saturday program she led into the subject with a mouth-foaming harangue about Obama’s “feckless” leadership and socialist designs on America. On Kelly’s primetime program she interviewed Col. Kenneth King who claimed to have been present when Baghdadi was transferred from the custody of U.S. forces to the Iraqis, who later allegedly released him to go on to form ISIS. However, an investigation by PolitiFact uncovered a very different story, confirmed by the Defense Department, and branding the Fox report as “false.”

“Ibrahim Awad Ibrahim Al Badry, also known as ‘Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi’ was held as a ‘civilian internee’ by U.S. Forces-Iraq from early February 2004 until early December 2004, when he was released,” the Pentagon said in a statement. “He was held at Camp Bucca. A Combined Review and Release Board recommended ‘unconditional release’ of this detainee and he was released from U.S. custody shortly thereafter. We have no record of him being held at any other time.”
Since the right-wing is so intent on assigning blame for Baghdadi’s campaign of terror on the president who was in office when he was set free, then according to their logic it is all Bush’s fault. But don’t expect Fox News to report the facts as laid out by actual journalists. They won’t even report the comments of their own witness, Col. King, who appeared on another network (ABC) and admitted that he “could be mistaken.” It turns out that he never knew the name of the man he presumed to be Baghdadi, he just thought there was a resemblance to the man he encountered. Nor will they report Col. King’s remarks to the Daily Beast where he downplayed the threat posed by Baghdadi, saying that “He was a bad dude, but he wasn’t the worst of the worst.”

PolitiFact went on to note that, even if Col. King’s account were correct, and Baghdadi was still in custody in 2009, Obama still could not be held to blame for Baghdadi’s release. The terms of the Status of Forces Agreement with Iraq required the U.S. to turn over all prisoners to the custody of Iraq’s criminal system. That agreement was negotiated and agreed to by the Bush administration in 2008.


FACT CHECK: ISIS Leader, Baghdadi, Was Released By Bush, Not Obama

FACT CHECK: ISIS Leader, Baghdadi, Was Released By Bush, Not Obama | News Corpse
 
The big whoopsie is on TinyDancer and Rupert Murdoch's global fake news corp:

Our ruling

Pirro said that Obama released the current head of ISIS from government custody in 2009. The Defense Department said that the man now known as Baghdadi was released in 2004. The evidence that Baghdadi was still in custody in 2009 appears to be the recollection of an Army colonel who said Baghdadi’s "face is very familiar."
Even if the colonel is right, Baghdadi was not set free; he was handed over to the Iraqis who released him some time later. But more important, the legal contract between the United States and Iraq that guaranteed that the United States would give up custody of virtually every detainee was signed during the Bush administration. It would have required an extraordinary effort to have held on to Baghdadi and there is no evidence that he was on anyone’s radar screen, assuming that he was in custody at all in 2009.
The U.S.-Iraq agreement drove the release of thousands of detainees in 2009, but Obama had nothing to do with that.
We rate the claim False.

Fox's Pirro: Obama set ISIS leader free in 2009 | PunditFact
 
The big whoopsie is on TinyDancer and Rupert Murdoch's global fake news corp:

Our ruling

Pirro said that Obama released the current head of ISIS from government custody in 2009. The Defense Department said that the man now known as Baghdadi was released in 2004. The evidence that Baghdadi was still in custody in 2009 appears to be the recollection of an Army colonel who said Baghdadi’s "face is very familiar."
Even if the colonel is right, Baghdadi was not set free; he was handed over to the Iraqis who released him some time later. But more important, the legal contract between the United States and Iraq that guaranteed that the United States would give up custody of virtually every detainee was signed during the Bush administration. It would have required an extraordinary effort to have held on to Baghdadi and there is no evidence that he was on anyone’s radar screen, assuming that he was in custody at all in 2009.
The U.S.-Iraq agreement drove the release of thousands of detainees in 2009, but Obama had nothing to do with that.
We rate the claim False.

Fox's Pirro: Obama set ISIS leader free in 2009 | PunditFact
ISIS Leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi Trained by Israeli Mossad, NSA Documents Reveal | Global Research
The former employee at US National Security Agency (NSA), Edward Snowden, has revealed that the British and American intelligence and the Mossad worked together to create the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).
Leaks revealed that ISIS leader and cleric Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi took intensive military training for a whole year in the hands of Mossad, besides courses in theology and the art of speech.
 
Now this is not a rumor. This is the real deal right from the Capitol. You have to understand that Obama hates Maliki with a passion. Almost as much as he hates Assad,

I think he was hoping for a two for one situation. Knock out both with ISIS and/or Al Nusra and then make peace with a Sunni replacement as the head of Syria and Iraq.

He does love his Sunnis doesn't he now?


Breaking on Capitol Hill is the news that Iraqi officials began requesting almost a year ago for the US to carry out drone strikes against ISIS – but the requests were shot down by the White House. That stunning revelation came during a hearing on the situation in Iraq this morning.

The Hill reports:

During a hearing on the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, House Foreign Affairs Chairman Ed Royce (R-Calif.) said the administration knew six months ago that the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS or ISIL) had established armed camps, staging areas and training grounds in Iraq’s western desert and its leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was threatening to attack the U.S.

“However, what the Administration did not say was that the Iraqi government had been urgently requesting drone strikes against ISIS camps since August 2013,” Royce continued.

“These repeated requests, unfortunately, were turned down,” he said. “I added my voice for drone strikes as ISIS convoys raced across the desert.”

The New York Times previously reported that in May 2014 Prime Minister Maliki had “secretly asked the Obama administration to consider carrying out airstrikes against extremist staging areas” and that “Iraq’s appeals for a military response have so far been rebuffed by the White House, which has been reluctant to open a new chapter in a conflict that President Obama has insisted was over when the United States withdrew the last of its forces from Iraq in 2011.”

But the fact that Iraqis have been begging for nearly a year for the US to strike ISIS with drones – and that those requests were repeatedly denied by Obama – was not previously known.

Obama regularly authorizes drone strikes against terrorist targets in Pakistan, Yemen and the Horn of Africa. The White House even boasted that the president personally approves the “kill lists” himself.



Obama refused ?repeated requests? since August 2013 for drone strikes against ISIS | AEIdeas

You chose the IAE version of the House hearing in ISIS. The IAE version does not provide the Admininstration's response. If you read the Hill report you'd know that it says that Republicans and Democrats at the hearing accepted the White House response.

You have done that omissions thing again for the sole reason of attacking Obama.

Here's a clue. Obama repeatedly requested Maliki to reach an inclusive political settlement with Sunni Iraqis who've been shut out of the Shiite run government in Baghdad. Dropping missiles on ISIS camps by the US Air Force before the ISIS aggression in June could not be justified in light of the political neglect of Maliki.
 
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The big whoopsie is on TinyDancer and Rupert Murdoch's global fake news corp:

Our ruling

Pirro said that Obama released the current head of ISIS from government custody in 2009. The Defense Department said that the man now known as Baghdadi was released in 2004. The evidence that Baghdadi was still in custody in 2009 appears to be the recollection of an Army colonel who said Baghdadi’s "face is very familiar."
Even if the colonel is right, Baghdadi was not set free; he was handed over to the Iraqis who released him some time later. But more important, the legal contract between the United States and Iraq that guaranteed that the United States would give up custody of virtually every detainee was signed during the Bush administration. It would have required an extraordinary effort to have held on to Baghdadi and there is no evidence that he was on anyone’s radar screen, assuming that he was in custody at all in 2009.
The U.S.-Iraq agreement drove the release of thousands of detainees in 2009, but Obama had nothing to do with that.
We rate the claim False.

Fox's Pirro: Obama set ISIS leader free in 2009 | PunditFact

Good morning and get ready for a smack down little one. You're late to the party.

First off Punditfact has absolutely no validity or credibility. It was started to mimic the WP Fact Checker but it is entirely left wing bullshit.

Owner is the founder of craigslist. A humongous Obama and Kerry supporter.

The article and the rating quotes anonymous Defense Department sources is complete bullshit.

Just another fucking blame Bush fairytale from you left wing lunatics.

I've already been down this road and blew this idiocy wide open. This story about Baghdadi did not originate with a FOX commentator.

It came from the Daily Beast and others including the Daily Mail and the BBC confirmed that the 2009 story held water.

And even though I'm on my first coffee I double checked BBC They have not backed off their research and their story.

Punditfact vs BBC?

Guess who I'm running with? I'm not a partisan hack like you.

I run with information that has been validated as compared to some nobody at a new entity called Punditfact who just gives an anonymous source and then gives their lofty opinion based on their bullshit political beliefs.

Some believe he was already a militant jihadist during the rule of Saddam Hussein.

Others suggest he was radicalised during the four years he was held at Camp Bucca, a US facility in southern Iraq where many al-Qaeda commanders were detained.

He emerged as the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, one of the groups that later became ISIS, in 2010, and rose to prominence during the attempted merger with al-Nusra Front in Syria.


BBC News - Profile: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
 

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