Countries The U.S. "Regime Changed" - Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria Are Chaotic Messes

[NotfooledbyW]

From the Washington Post. Go ahead. Argue with WP. Make my day. I know. Maybe you can email both the BBC and the Washington Post and tell them they are wrong, wrong, wrong.

But the narrative solidifies in 2005, when he was captured by American forces and spent the next four years a prisoner in the Bucca Camp in southern Iraq.

It was from his time there that the first known picture of Baghdadi emerged. And it’s also there, reports Al-Monitor, that he possibly met and trained with key al-Qaeda fighters.

How ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi became the world?s most powerful jihadist leader - The Washington Post

I have no dispute with the WP or the BBC The facts are that it was Bush that turned all prisoners at camp Bucca over to the Iraqis when he signed the SOFA in 2008 before Obama was inaugurated.

Obama had nothing to do with Baghdadi's release. It was your beloved war starter GW Bush.

 

[zeke]

Seriously though, who gives a fuck what the Taliban do? And ISIS killing Arabs? Who cares?

Arabs are human beings. Do you approve of killing human beings as long as it has not reached your doorstep as of yet?

That is an interesting question. Do I approve of people killing each other when the people killing each other have a professed hatred of me and want to kill me and mine?

Is that the question?

If so, yes, I don't care that they kill each other.

It is unfortunate that their hatred allows them to cross the bounds of humanity and civility so quickly and easily but hey, it is what they do and have been doing to each other for centuries.

So yea, having them killing each other slows down their ability to kill us. And lesses our need to kill them. At least at this time.

Why do you care that people that hate us kill each other? That's my question for you.

 

[JimH52]

Here's another chapter to add to the mess in Libya.

BBC News - Diplomat to oversee mass Filipino evacuation from Libya



If only Wrongpublicans hadn't thrown a fit about President Obama exercising his constitutional authority as commander-in-chief, so much of this chaos could've been averted, and so many Libyan lives could've been saved.

Obama was wrong intervening in Libya, Egypt, Ukraine, and Syria. We'll be living with the Blow Back on it for many years to come. They were not our Wars. We should have stayed out of them. 'Regime Change' isn't always in our best interest.

US wasn't involved in Ukraine, Syria or Egypt. And only minorly involved in Libya.

Exactly! While Obama tried to stay out of the mess, one of his opponents for the Presidency was advocating more involvement in these countries. Had McCain or W been in office when these issues came up, we would be knee deep by now.

 

[JimH52]

Seriously though, who gives a fuck what the Taliban do? And ISIS killing Arabs? Who cares?

Arabs are human beings. Do you approve of killing human beings as long as it has not reached your doorstep as of yet?[/QUOTE]

That is an interesting question. Do I approve of people killing each other when the people killing each other have a professed hatred of me and want to kill me and mine?

Is that the question?

If so, yes, I don't care that they kill each other.

It is unfortunate that their hatred allows them to cross the bounds of humanity and civility so quickly and easily but hey, it is what they do and have been doing to each other for centuries.

So yea, having them killing each other slows down their ability to kill us. And lesses our need to kill them. At least at this time.

Why do you care that people that hate us kill each other? That's my question for you.

Tell ISIS about human beings while they behead Christians. Just how do you think we should approach that issue. Turn the other cheek or pull our collar down for easier sword access?

 

[paulitician]

Your own Government contributes far more to war and instability, than possibly any other group or nation on this Earth

Did you think this way on September 12, 2001?

Like i said, your own Government contributes far more to war and instability than possibly any other group or nation on this earth.

 

[paulitician]

Bush had the right idea. When Russia invaded Georgia, Bush sent a planeload of "bandages" to Georgia. Now that's a "leader" Republicans can admire.

To be fair, Bush did want to intervene in that conflict as well. It was you Communists/Progressives who ridiculed and opposed him on it. But now suddenly, you guys are the country's most rabid warmongering interventionists. Gee, i wonder why? Pretty convenient flip-flop no?

This really does sum you wingnuts up perfectly...

 

[paulitician]

Remember Americans, you do reap what you sow. 'Regime Change' is an arrogant and misguided notion. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism will lead to retaliation. How can it not? Wouldn't we retaliate?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Your own Government contributes far more to war and instability, than possibly any other group or nation on this Earth

Did you think this way on September 12, 2001?

Like i said, your own Government contributes far more to war and instability than possibly any other group or nation on this earth.

What war was the US contributing (far more) to on September 10 2001 the day before the Pentagon was attacked?

 

[dblack]

Did you think this way on September 12, 2001?

Like i said, your own Government contributes far more to war and instability than possibly any other group or nation on this earth.

What war was the US contributing (far more) to on September 10 2001 the day before the Pentagon was attacked?

I dunno. Maybe they took a day off?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I dunno.

Thanks for sharing.

Prior to 9/11/01 the major US military action was the two NFZs in Iraq. I am sure the main contributors to war on 901 had to be terrorists such as alQaeda based in Afghanistan.

Al Qaeda and the linked terror groups are the culprits and instigators of war since 9:11? Why wouid some here argue its the USA?

 

[dblack]

I dunno.

Thanks for sharing.

Prior to 9/11/01 the major US military action was the two NFZs in Iraq. I am sure the main contributors to war on 901 had to be terrorists such as alQaeda based in Afghanistan.

Al Qaeda and the linked terror groups are the culprits and instigators of war since 9:11? Why wouid some here argue its the USA?

Don't be silly. No one is arguing the USA was "the culprits". It's just that our dumbass foreign policy decisions did more to provoke it than to prevent it.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Don't be silly. No one is arguing the USA was "the culprits". It's just that our dumbass foreign policy decisions did more to provoke it than to prevent it.

Do you know what those dumbass foreign policy decisions were exactly? Nothing in my mind should have 'provoked' the attack on 9/11/01. Nothing. But I heard this sick reasoning before. Do you follow up with a list of bad decisions or are you simply repeating a common cliche?

 

[BillyP]

Don't be silly. No one is arguing the USA was "the culprits". It's just that our dumbass foreign policy decisions did more to provoke it than to prevent it.

Do you know what those dumbass foreign policy decisions were exactly? Nothing in my mind should have 'provoked' the attack on 9/11/01. Nothing. But I heard this sick reasoning before. Do you follow up with a list of bad decisions or are you simply repeating a common cliche?

9/11 was retaliation for our bad foreign policy, listen...

 

[dblack]

Don't be silly. No one is arguing the USA was "the culprits". It's just that our dumbass foreign policy decisions did more to provoke it than to prevent it.

Do you know what those dumbass foreign policy decisions were exactly? Nothing in my mind should have 'provoked' the attack on 9/11/01. Nothing. But I heard this sick reasoning before.

Indeed it is "sick reasoning". But we're dealing with sick people.

Do you follow up with a list of bad decisions or are you simply repeating a common cliche?

Failure to recognize that we're dealing with sick people, to begin with. But you can look all this stuff up if you're interested. It doesn't sound you wanna hear it.

 

[zeke]

Arabs are human beings. Do you approve of killing human beings as long as it has not reached your doorstep as of yet?[/QUOTE]

That is an interesting question. Do I approve of people killing each other when the people killing each other have a professed hatred of me and want to kill me and mine?

Is that the question?

If so, yes, I don't care that they kill each other.

It is unfortunate that their hatred allows them to cross the bounds of humanity and civility so quickly and easily but hey, it is what they do and have been doing to each other for centuries.

So yea, having them killing each other slows down their ability to kill us. And lesses our need to kill them. At least at this time.

Why do you care that people that hate us kill each other? That's my question for you.

Tell ISIS about human beings while they behead Christians. Just how do you think we should approach that issue. Turn the other cheek or pull our collar down for easier sword access?

Jim, are you a Christian living in Iraq? If so, get the fuck out of Iraq.
If you are a Christian living in the USA worrying about Christians living in Iraq. Get on an airplane and get over there to help.
Sorry, but those Christians ain't our (the USA's) problem. If people like you want to make it (killing Christians in Iraq) YOUR problem, have at it. Go to Iraq. Get a gun. Shoot some of them hated Muslims.

But Jim, how come you didn't answer my question? Why do you CARE? Unless you live in Iraq. Which I am pretty sure you don't. Right?

 

[tinydancer]

From the Washington Post. Go ahead. Argue with WP. Make my day. I know. Maybe you can email both the BBC and the Washington Post and tell them they are wrong, wrong, wrong.

But the narrative solidifies in 2005, when he was captured by American forces and spent the next four years a prisoner in the Bucca Camp in southern Iraq.

It was from his time there that the first known picture of Baghdadi emerged. And it’s also there, reports Al-Monitor, that he possibly met and trained with key al-Qaeda fighters.

How ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi became the world?s most powerful jihadist leader - The Washington Post

I have no dispute with the WP or the BBC The facts are that it was Bush that turned all prisoners at camp Bucca over to the Iraqis when he signed the SOFA in 2008 before Obama was inaugurated.

Obama had nothing to do with Baghdadi's release. It was your beloved war starter GW Bush.

Oh bite me.

The prisoner release was on Obama's watch. His administration officials determined who should be released, who should remain in custody and be turned over to Iraq, and who should remain in US custody.

This is just a fact. Not my opinion. Bush was no longer President and CIC. You just have to learn to deal with the truth.

Early this year, the U.S. military began emptying the prison, releasing 5,600 detainees and transferring another 1,400 with arrest warrants or detention orders to Iraqi authorities, according to the U.S. military's Task Force 134, which oversees American-run prisons in Iraq.

Once the remaining 180 prisoners, considered dangerous "high-risk detainees," are moved to U.S.-run detention centers in and around Baghdad, Bucca officially will be closed. The transfer was expected late Wednesday or early Thursday.

U.S. military closes huge prison in southern Iraq | Iraq | McClatchy DC

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Oh bite me.

The prisoner release was on Obama's watch. His administration officials determined who should be released, who should remain in custody and be turned over to Iraq, and who should remain in US custody.

This is just a fact. Not my opinion. Bush was no longer President and CIC. You just have to learn to deal with the truth.

No, you wont accept that a deal made by a President binds the next President to it. The 2008 Bush SOFA agreement required the U.S. military to transfer all detainees to Iraq jurisiction before the end of 2011. All detainees as in all detainees. The Iraqis Ultimately had final say on 'all' detainees held at the time of the SOFA. Obama could not wait until December 30 2010 to begin the transfer of 15,000 prisoners to Iraq the next day.

Bush cut the deal. The truth bites you once again as you requested. Have you always had such disrespect for the law and treaty agreements.

 

[tinydancer]

Oh bite me.

The prisoner release was on Obama's watch. His administration officials determined who should be released, who should remain in custody and be turned over to Iraq, and who should remain in US custody.

This is just a fact. Not my opinion. Bush was no longer President and CIC. You just have to learn to deal with the truth.

No, you wont accept that a deal made by a President binds the next President to it. The 2008 Bush SOFA agreement required the U.S. military to transfer all detainees to Iraq jurisiction before the end of 2011. All detainees as in all detainees. The Iraqis Ultimately had final say on 'all' detainees held at the time of the SOFA. Obama could not wait until December 30 2010 to begin the transfer of 15,000 prisoners to Iraq the next day.

Bush cut the deal. The truth bites you once again as you requested. Have you always had such disrespect for the law and treaty agreements.

What part of "officials on Obama's watch didn't designate Baghdadi a high risk detainee" don't you get?

If they had, he could have remained in US custody for a longer period of time. As it is, they put a bounty on his head almost as high for Zawahiri in 2011.

It's just a fuck up that happened on Obama's watch. Did Gitmo prisoners that were released on Bush's watch go back to the battlefield. Hell yeah.

Shit happens.

What counts now though is Obama's inaction to help the Iraqis as thousands are on the verge of being slaughtered by ISIS.

Nice to see you've given up on the bullshit narrative that Bush release Baghdadi in 2004 though.

You're making headway.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

What part of "officials on Obama's watch didn't designate Baghdadi a high risk detainee" don't you get?

Why and how could they designate one of 15,000 detainees as high risk if he wasn't at that time? Your expectation that Obama could reduce more dreadful fallout from Bush's disastrous decision to invade Iraq by peering into the future to predict that Bagdadi wouid become the head of ISIS just shows how much you hate Obama.

And what's more absurd about your argument is that you actually expect anyone to believe that if Baghdadi was detained one year longer that none of this IS terrorism would be happening. Its as if only Baghdadi could pull this off.

Bush agreed to transfer all 15,000 prisoners to Iraq within two years time. He tied Obama's hands. That's a lot of prisoners to decide and transfer on the last day as you think Obams should have done.


They US officer who handed Bagdadi over tells you Baghdadi was released by Iraq not Obama. You don't blame Iraqis for any of this:

BY FOX NEWS INSIDER. // JUN 13 2014 // 9:43PM AS SEEN ON
THE KELLY FILE
As the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) continues to make its way deeper into Iraq, gaining control of the country’s major cities, Megyn Kelly was joined by Ken King, the former Commander of Camp Bucca Prison where ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was held until his 2009 release.


King escorted al-Baghdadi on a flight to transfer custody over to the Iraqi government. The U.S. built a solid case for detention, but the Iraqi government decided to release al-Baghdadi. “Their decision to let him go was personally disappointing,” King said. “But I have to respect the decisions of a sovereign government.”

The Next Bin Laden: ISIS Leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi | Fox News Insider

King had it right, " ... I have to respect the decisions of a sovereign government.” And I see you don't give a hoot about Iraq's sovereignty.

The truth is no one, not even the Shiite government could have foreseen what Baghdadi would become.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Nice to see you've given up on the bullshit narrative that Bush release Baghdadi in 2004 though.

Do you have any official sources that placed Baghdadi in an Iraqi prison in 2009 that comes from any source other than "King" because King is not based on certain ID by prison records. He admits he could be mistaken because his whole story is based upon his memory and his 'face is very familiar'

I'm not convinced that King is right or that journalists have been acting properly in reporting his story.

When ABC News told King that a “US official” had disputed his story, King said, "I could be mistaken. But I’m 99 percent. He’s a dead ringer for the guy I had the run-in with … His face is very familiar."

Here's everything we know so far about ISIL's mysterious leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi | GlobalPost

I'll wait for something more reliable than King as the source that Baghdadi was in a prison in Iraq in 2009 before I accept that.


But that matters less than the fact that Bush strapped Obama with the need to transfer 15,000 Prisoners to Iraq custody in 700 days. That's over 20 prisoners a day seven days a week. Are you nuts to think the US military could foresee one detainee to be the one to lead a terrorist network far worse than AlQaeda?