Canada apporves new oil pipeline

[RoshawnMarkwees]

When you can explain why consumers would pay more for oil than they have to pay.

That's easy. Rich white democrat sheeple who have enough money that they don't quite feel the resulting pinch (or dishonestly deny they do) and who are more influenced by their need to belong and think they're smarter and hipper by flocking to the AGW scam. Also, ignorant racist bigots who allow their need to stick with the party that panders to their racism while undercutting their own budgets with the AGW scam.

 

[Siete]

It says what we said, supply and demand sets oil prices. The field of economics says the same thing. So does all empirical data.

It's you who needs to get with the beat, Baggy.

Apparently you understand how the oil biz works about as well as you understand the concept of avatar gender.

So you don't get the reference? ...

... libertarian ... Statue of Liberty ... it's all very complicated ...

Supply and demand does *not* set oil prices. Not in a way that any one source can affect. It's an international fungible commodity. It's not Acme widgets deciding how many to ship to Indiana and how many go to India.

Of course it's not one "source." Supply is many, many sources, demand is many many sources. Deals happen when a price is struck.

When you can explain why consumers would pay more for oil than they have to pay or suppliers would sell oil for less than they could get for their oil, then maybe you'll be onto something about how the field of economics is wrong and the Communist Manifesto is right. Until then, I'll stick with economics and you can stick with the Manifesto.

when can you explain how OPEC controls their supply and controls prices?

or how China buys 10 million barrels in the spot market and how Keystone gets it to them


stay tuned ladies and gentlemen, this should be good

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Apparently you understand how the oil biz works about as well as you understand the concept of avatar gender.

So you don't get the reference? ...

... libertarian ... Statue of Liberty ... it's all very complicated ...

Supply and demand does *not* set oil prices. Not in a way that any one source can affect. It's an international fungible commodity. It's not Acme widgets deciding how many to ship to Indiana and how many go to India.

Of course it's not one "source." Supply is many, many sources, demand is many many sources. Deals happen when a price is struck.

When you can explain why consumers would pay more for oil than they have to pay or suppliers would sell oil for less than they could get for their oil, then maybe you'll be onto something about how the field of economics is wrong and the Communist Manifesto is right. Until then, I'll stick with economics and you can stick with the Manifesto.

when can you explain how OPEC controls their supply and controls prices?

or how China buys 10 million barrels in the spot market and how Keystone gets it to them


stay tuned ladies and gentlemen, this should be good

If conditions allow for OPEC to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond their influence and leverage wane. Supply and demand. But this alleged president is disallowing that leverage play. He should be sent to GITMO.

 

[kaz]

More for you.

Tasnim News Agency - Oil Prices to Remain Around $ 100 a Barrel: Iranian Official

You can thank me later.

That isn't how you financially assess the impact on prices. Oil supply and demand are both constantly increasing. You are looking at absolute measures, you should be looking at relative measures.

Absolute measure - comparing prices in the future to today. This is the wrong measure because both supply and demand are constantly changing. You can't pick one variable, like the keystone pipeline, and compare future prices to today as if that were the only factor, it isn't.

Relative measure - comparing prices in the future if you do the project to prices in the future if you do not do the project. This is the correct measure, and since the Keystone pipeline adds oil to future supply, it will have a downward pressure on pricing.

As I pointed out though in another post, the Keystone pipeline doesn't affect oil prices directly because the Canadians are drilling the oil and it will enter the world market and oil is a commodity. What the Keystone pipeline does affect are shipping costs (cheaper to ship to US than sail to China) and they affect the US economy because of the jobs created.

I posted a link on this thread about global oil ... obviously you weren't paying attention.

Wow, I haven't read every link in every discussion. I'm trying to be embarrassed about that, I really am, but it's not working...

 

[Siete]

That isn't how you financially assess the impact on prices. Oil supply and demand are both constantly increasing. You are looking at absolute measures, you should be looking at relative measures.

Absolute measure - comparing prices in the future to today. This is the wrong measure because both supply and demand are constantly changing. You can't pick one variable, like the keystone pipeline, and compare future prices to today as if that were the only factor, it isn't.

Relative measure - comparing prices in the future if you do the project to prices in the future if you do not do the project. This is the correct measure, and since the Keystone pipeline adds oil to future supply, it will have a downward pressure on pricing.

As I pointed out though in another post, the Keystone pipeline doesn't affect oil prices directly because the Canadians are drilling the oil and it will enter the world market and oil is a commodity. What the Keystone pipeline does affect are shipping costs (cheaper to ship to US than sail to China) and they affect the US economy because of the jobs created.

I posted a link on this thread about global oil ... obviously you weren't paying attention.

Wow, I haven't read every link in every discussion. I'm trying to be embarrassed about that, I really am, but it's not working...

obviously, on both counts.


care to answer my questions or would you rather just TRY to be embarrassed

 

[kaz]

Of course it's not one "source." Supply is many, many sources, demand is many many sources. Deals happen when a price is struck.

When you can explain why consumers would pay more for oil than they have to pay or suppliers would sell oil for less than they could get for their oil, then maybe you'll be onto something about how the field of economics is wrong and the Communist Manifesto is right. Until then, I'll stick with economics and you can stick with the Manifesto.

when can you explain how OPEC controls their supply and controls prices?

OPEC increases prices by decreasing supply. It only worked in the past for two reasons.

1) OPEC is government, or it's an organization of governments, and I did say that only government can warp market prices because only government can use force to do it. Private companies cannot drill in OPEC companies without government approval. So governments are manipulating prices as I already stated they can.

2) OPEC used to represent the vast majority of oil supply. That amount is steadily slipping and with it OPEC's ability to control prices.

OPEC did not change the way the market set prices though, it was still the oil sold was for the highest price suppliers could get and the lowest price consumers would pay. They only manipulated prices by manipulating supply, so it still doesn't change the dynamic.

or how China buys 10 million barrels in the spot market and how Keystone gets it to them

The pipeline they are building takes it to the Pacific coast. I'm thinking China will buy as much oil as they are capable of transporting or can arrange to have transported and not more than they can transport. I am also thinking for a reliable supply, they would probably work on being able to transport more oil. Why, what is your thought on that?

stay tuned ladies and gentlemen, this should be good

Thanks! You got it man, questions answered. You're welcome, it's no problem.

 

[Siete]

So you don't get the reference? ...

... libertarian ... Statue of Liberty ... it's all very complicated ...



Of course it's not one "source." Supply is many, many sources, demand is many many sources. Deals happen when a price is struck.

When you can explain why consumers would pay more for oil than they have to pay or suppliers would sell oil for less than they could get for their oil, then maybe you'll be onto something about how the field of economics is wrong and the Communist Manifesto is right. Until then, I'll stick with economics and you can stick with the Manifesto.

when can you explain how OPEC controls their supply and controls prices?

or how China buys 10 million barrels in the spot market and how Keystone gets it to them


stay tuned ladies and gentlemen, this should be good

If conditions allow for OPEC to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond their influence and leverage wane. Supply and demand. But this alleged president is disallowing that leverage play. He should be sent to GITMO.

this president or any other president can't control the price of oil ... you're a moron

 

[kaz]

I posted a link on this thread about global oil ... obviously you weren't paying attention.

Wow, I haven't read every link in every discussion. I'm trying to be embarrassed about that, I really am, but it's not working...

obviously, on both counts.


care to answer my questions or would you rather just TRY to be embarrassed

If you want me to answer your questions in another thread in another post, you have to direct me there. I'm not going to go looking for it based on your informing me there is one. I wouldn't anyway, but particularly when you do it with an unnecessary, childish pissy attitude as if I was supposed to already know that.

 

[Siete]

Of course it's not one "source." Supply is many, many sources, demand is many many sources. Deals happen when a price is struck.

When you can explain why consumers would pay more for oil than they have to pay or suppliers would sell oil for less than they could get for their oil, then maybe you'll be onto something about how the field of economics is wrong and the Communist Manifesto is right. Until then, I'll stick with economics and you can stick with the Manifesto.

when can you explain how OPEC controls their supply and controls prices?

OPEC increases prices by decreasing supply. It only worked in the past for two reasons.

1) OPEC is government, or it's an organization of governments, and I did say that only government can warp market prices because only government can use force to do it. Private companies cannot drill in OPEC companies without government approval. So governments are manipulating prices as I already stated they can.

2) OPEC used to represent the vast majority of oil supply. That amount is steadily slipping and with it OPEC's ability to control prices.

OPEC did not change the way the market set prices though, it was still the oil sold was for the highest price suppliers could get and the lowest price consumers would pay. They only manipulated prices by manipulating supply, so it still doesn't change the dynamic.

or how China buys 10 million barrels in the spot market and how Keystone gets it to them

The pipeline they are building takes it to the Pacific coast. I'm thinking China will buy as much oil as they are capable of transporting or can arrange to have transported and not more than they can transport. I am also thinking for a reliable supply, they would probably work on being able to transport more oil. Why, what is your thought on that?

stay tuned ladies and gentlemen, this should be good

Thanks! You got it man, questions answered. You're welcome, it's no problem.

now explain how Keystone can control OPEC supply.

 

[Siete]

The pipeline they are building takes it to the Pacific coast. I'm thinking China will buy as much oil as they are capable of transporting or can arrange to have transported and not more than they can transport. I am also thinking for a reliable supply, they would probably work on being able to transport more oil. Why, what is your thought on that?


well my first thought is Keystone ends up in Texas at the refineries, (Canada, Nebraska, Texas) my second thought is you know nothing about the spot market.


who knew?

 

[Rotagilla]

when can you explain how OPEC controls their supply and controls prices?

or how China buys 10 million barrels in the spot market and how Keystone gets it to them


stay tuned ladies and gentlemen, this should be good

If conditions allow for OPEC to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond their influence and leverage wane. Supply and demand. But this alleged president is disallowing that leverage play. He should be sent to GITMO.

this president or any other president can't control the price of oil ... you're a moron

strawman

No one ever said he could.

Government policy affects the price of oil, though.

 

[Siete]

If conditions allow for OPEC to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond their influence and leverage wane. Supply and demand. But this alleged president is disallowing that leverage play. He should be sent to GITMO.

this president or any other president can't control the price of oil ... you're a moron

strawman

No one ever said he could.

Government policy affects the price of oil, though.

where's my apology ?


Separate from the annual placement of moratorium language in appropriations bills, Congress passed legislation (Gulf of Mexico Energy Security Act) in 2006 which allowed new drilling to commence in certain portions of the Gulf of Mexico, but placed nearly all of the Eastern Gulf of Mexico under a leasing and drilling moratorium until 2022.

Florida is protected up to 125 miles of their coastline until 2022.


still waiting for that apology you accused me of scurrying away from .... ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDD ?

 

[Pogo]

If conditions allow for OPEC to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond their influence and leverage wane. Supply and demand. But this alleged president is disallowing that leverage play. He should be sent to GITMO.

this president or any other president can't control the price of oil ... you're a moron

strawman

No one ever said he could.

Government policy affects the price of oil, though.

Oh yes, that Rooshawn clown has tried to float that turd before, been schooled on it and it went right over his head.

And no doubt we'll do the same thing tomorrow, next week, next year. Until his party gets in power, then we'll see a rhetorical handbrake turn.

 

[Siete]

this president or any other president can't control the price of oil ... you're a moron

strawman

No one ever said he could.

Government policy affects the price of oil, though.

Oh yes, that Rooshawn clown has tried to float that turd before, been schooled on it and it went right over his head.

And no doubt we'll do the same thing tomorrow, next week, next year. Until his party gets in power, then we'll see a rhetorical handbrake turn.

yup, and the beat goes on

 

[kaz]

when can you explain how OPEC controls their supply and controls prices?

OPEC increases prices by decreasing supply. It only worked in the past for two reasons.

1) OPEC is government, or it's an organization of governments, and I did say that only government can warp market prices because only government can use force to do it. Private companies cannot drill in OPEC companies without government approval. So governments are manipulating prices as I already stated they can.

2) OPEC used to represent the vast majority of oil supply. That amount is steadily slipping and with it OPEC's ability to control prices.

OPEC did not change the way the market set prices though, it was still the oil sold was for the highest price suppliers could get and the lowest price consumers would pay. They only manipulated prices by manipulating supply, so it still doesn't change the dynamic.



The pipeline they are building takes it to the Pacific coast. I'm thinking China will buy as much oil as they are capable of transporting or can arrange to have transported and not more than they can transport. I am also thinking for a reliable supply, they would probably work on being able to transport more oil. Why, what is your thought on that?

stay tuned ladies and gentlemen, this should be good

Thanks! You got it man, questions answered. You're welcome, it's no problem.

now explain how Keystone can control OPEC supply.

They can't, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[Redfish]

I've never understood the Republican obsession with Keystone.....Think of the JOBs....we only care about the JOBs

If Republicans want JOBS....why don't they push for more infrastructure construction projects? Roads, bridges, tunnels, dams, power and communication grid and most importantly......upgrading and maintaining what we have

Yet, every time these projects come up...Republicans sit on them

conservatives do push for this spending I can't see how you can say otherwise. The government is spending already MORE then they take in how in the hell can we increase spending? The left rails about the TP wanting financial responsibility and the left offers absolutely no alternative other then to spend even more. It is crazy.

Other than it had Obamas name on it, why did they kill the Obama Jobs bill that was mostly infrastructure improvement?
Why did Chris Christie kill the NYC tunnell that would have provided thousands of more jobs than Keystone? Why didn't Republicans protest that?
Where are all the Republican infrastructure bills? They are good at proposing kill Obamacare bills, why can't they push for some infrastructure?

Keystone would produce jobs and revenue, besides reducing the price of fuel in the USA.

Other types of infrastructure create jobs but take govt revenue and do not contribute to the national wealth.

I am not saying we should not do infrastructure projects, just explaining the difference to you.

 

[Pheonixops]

what is wrong with Congress in that they can't just override Obama and do what would be good for America? The crying bleeding heart liberals said the same about the Alaskan pipeline and the only problem we have had is when a bleeding heart liberal shot a hole in the pipeline. More jobs and opportunity lost because of Obama. Thanks.

Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast

He was "profoundly disappointed" that U.S. President Barack Obama has delayed a decision on the Texas Keystone XL option, and spoke of the need to diversify Canada's oil industry. Ninety-seven percent of Canadian oil exports now go to the U.S.

Meanwhile, China's growing economy is hungry for Canadian oil. Chinese state-owned companies have invested more than $40 billion in Canadian energy in the past few years.

I think that one of the mistakes this Administration has made was not aggressively supporting oil production, natural gas production, in addition to alternative energy production. I would rather the United States have a deal with Canada than for any other country including China to have such a deal. It's basically like shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[Pogo]

conservatives do push for this spending I can't see how you can say otherwise. The government is spending already MORE then they take in how in the hell can we increase spending? The left rails about the TP wanting financial responsibility and the left offers absolutely no alternative other then to spend even more. It is crazy.

Other than it had Obamas name on it, why did they kill the Obama Jobs bill that was mostly infrastructure improvement?
Why did Chris Christie kill the NYC tunnell that would have provided thousands of more jobs than Keystone? Why didn't Republicans protest that?
Where are all the Republican infrastructure bills? They are good at proposing kill Obamacare bills, why can't they push for some infrastructure?

Keystone would produce jobs and revenue, besides reducing the price of fuel in the USA.

Other types of infrastructure create jobs but take govt revenue and do not contribute to the national wealth.

I am not saying we should not do infrastructure projects, just explaining the difference to you.

No it wouldn't stupid. It makes Big Oil's transport easier to get product to Asia and that's all it does. And that doesn't affect the price, which is set on the international market. It's got zero to do with the price of fuel here.

It would create jobs though. The figure I read was 35 people would be needed to basically hold the mule's balls and make sure they don't spill.

Whoop de frickin' do.

 

[Redfish]

If conditions allow for OPEC to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond their influence and leverage wane. Supply and demand. But this alleged president is disallowing that leverage play. He should be sent to GITMO.

this president or any other president can't control the price of oil ... you're a moron

strawman

No one ever said he could.

Government policy affects the price of oil, though.

Yes it does. If obozo were to announce that he was authorizing Keystone and allowing drilling in the gulf, the atlantic and pacific coasts and fracking on govt land--------OPEC would drop the price of oil instantly.

Its all about supply and demand. Increase supply and the price goes down.

But thats not what obama wants, now is it? ever wonder why?

 

[Redfish]

Other than it had Obamas name on it, why did they kill the Obama Jobs bill that was mostly infrastructure improvement?
Why did Chris Christie kill the NYC tunnell that would have provided thousands of more jobs than Keystone? Why didn't Republicans protest that?
Where are all the Republican infrastructure bills? They are good at proposing kill Obamacare bills, why can't they push for some infrastructure?

Keystone would produce jobs and revenue, besides reducing the price of fuel in the USA.

Other types of infrastructure create jobs but take govt revenue and do not contribute to the national wealth.

I am not saying we should not do infrastructure projects, just explaining the difference to you.

No it wouldn't stupid. It makes Big Oil's transport easier to get product to Asia and that's all it does. And that doesn't affect the price, which is set on the international market. It's got zero to do with the price of fuel here.

It would create jobs though. The figure I read was 35 people would be needed to basically hold the mule's balls and make sure they don't spill.

Whoop de frickin' do.

you are an ignorant idiot, better stay with hopping on your pogo stick because you know nothing about this topic.