Breaking News - Israel launches ground offensive in Gaza

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is the same argument, that the Arab Palestinian has been mustering for more than half a century. It is, as Ms Lamis Deek and our friend PF Tinmore, does Israel have the right to exist?

Both Ms Deek and PF Tinmore, claim that Israel "does not have" the “right to exist as a Jewish state." Well, in a sense, this is a larger question as to the criteria under which any nation has the right to exist.

Probably because it is true.

A state, or government if you will, has no rights. It is the people who have rights. A government constituted by the will of the people is merely an extension of the rights of the people.

Palestine is a nation of people inside a territory defined by international borders. Palestine is their country. As a nation of people inside a defined territory they have the right to:
Self determination without external interference.​
Independence and sovereignty.​
Territorial integrity.​
The Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, have the right to establish a government and declare a state inside their international borders without external interference.

Israel is an alien domination of Palestine. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich be the foreign World Zionist Organization. Its intended population was foreign settlers who were imported by the Zionists to populate the planned Jewish state.

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Israel was created with the virtual unanimous opposition of the native population and has never had the support of the majority of people.

Outside the UN during the statehood vote.

You gotta love Palestinian women.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2nWVM_Ehbo]Lamis Deek Incites Intifada at the Palestinian "statehood" Protest - YouTube[/ame]




So in effect you are saying that the Jews who have lived in Palestine for 4,500 years have no rights at all. No rights to

Self determination without external interference.​
Independence and sovereignty.​
Territorial integrity.​

Rather an anti-Semitic and racist comment by you tinny as the Jews have lived on that land for far longer than any arab muslim has. The Diaspora Jews were invited back by the Ottoman owners of Palestine because there were no arab muslims prepared to do the work. Then after WW1 the new owners of the land the LoN also invited the diaspora Jews to migrate and settle Palestine. These two migrations resulted in the Jews owning 7% of the land prior to the end of the mandate, while the arab muslims owned much less than 1% of the land beaten by the Christians that owned 1%. So how did the arab muslims become the only ones to be given the right to declare a state when they were in the minority .
 
Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.

Mohammed Omer *@Mogaza

#Israel tankshell hit ICU at Aqsa hospital, 5 killed so far and 16 injured. hospital is under shelling now, central #Gaza

22 minutes ago

Gaza / Current.ly




AND! if hamas use it as a military base then it becomes a military target. Read the Geneva conventions for the evidence
 
Boy, oh boy, how people have forgotten was for murderous criminals Hamas adherents are.


feature_2014_06_03_lee_smith.png


They took over Gaza in 2006/2007 and the first order of business was to throw Fatah adherents from tall buildings to their deaths:

LiveLeak.com - Hamas throwing Fatah member off roof in Gaza

So, for all the Pali lovers out there, if they are willing to admit that "Palestinians" in Gaza are being oppressed by Hamas, then I can buy their argument that somehow, Israel is attacking civilians.

If not, then it's all bullshit.

if a person is under 14, as 40% of Gaza is, do you think they view Hamas or Israel's actions as the bad guys?

Hamas hasn't killed their family or blown up their house. Hamas hasn't left them maimed and without a hospital. Hamas is fighting against those that have.

so you need to ask yourself - is israel really doing the right thing by causing so much death and destruction?




Can you prove that hamas has not killed their families, blown up their houses, left them maimed and without a hospital. Because I can show that hamas has done all these things since coming to power in gaza, and worse. Remember the wedding that was halted by hamas and the guests murdered because they were dancing to music ?
 
Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.

Mohammed Omer *@Mogaza

#Israel tankshell hit ICU at Aqsa hospital, 5 killed so far and 16 injured. hospital is under shelling now, central #Gaza

22 minutes ago

Gaza / Current.ly
Why did that Israeli tank fire at the hospital?

Was Hamas firing on IDF forces from within the hospital complex?

Does Hamas use the hospital or its basement-bunker for a command post?

When you emplace war-assets into such a building, it loses its immunity from hostile fire.

Rightfully so.

Hamas does that kind of shit all the time.

If Hamas WAS conducting operations from that locale...

Did the IDF tank crew run-up a decent score of dead Hamas scumbags?

Should we send the IDF tank crew some gift certificates for free steak dinners or something?




Smoked salmon and champagne would be better, followed by Cuban cigars and 5 star brandy
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

This is the same argument, that the Arab Palestinian has been mustering for more than half a century. It is, as Ms Lamis Deek and our friend PF Tinmore, does Israel have the right to exist?

Both Ms Deek and PF Tinmore, claim that Israel "does not have" the “right to exist as a Jewish state." Well, in a sense, this is a larger question as to the criteria under which any nation has the right to exist.

Probably because it is true.

A state, or government if you will, has no rights. It is the people who have rights. A government constituted by the will of the people is merely an extension of the rights of the people.

Palestine is a nation of people inside a territory defined by international borders. Palestine is their country. As a nation of people inside a defined territory they have the right to:
Self determination without external interference.​
Independence and sovereignty.​
Territorial integrity.​
The Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, have the right to establish a government and declare a state inside their international borders without external interference.

Israel is an alien domination of Palestine. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich be the foreign World Zionist Organization. Its intended population was foreign settlers who were imported by the Zionists to populate the planned Jewish state.

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Israel was created with the virtual unanimous opposition of the native population and has never had the support of the majority of people.

Outside the UN during the statehood vote.

You gotta love Palestinian women.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2nWVM_Ehbo]Lamis Deek Incites Intifada at the Palestinian "statehood" Protest - YouTube[/ame]




So in effect you are saying that the Jews who have lived in Palestine for 4,500 years have no rights at all. No rights to

Self determination without external interference.​
Independence and sovereignty.​
Territorial integrity.​

Rather an anti-Semitic and racist comment by you tinny as the Jews have lived on that land for far longer than any arab muslim has. The Diaspora Jews were invited back by the Ottoman owners of Palestine because there were no arab muslims prepared to do the work. Then after WW1 the new owners of the land the LoN also invited the diaspora Jews to migrate and settle Palestine. These two migrations resulted in the Jews owning 7% of the land prior to the end of the mandate, while the arab muslims owned much less than 1% of the land beaten by the Christians that owned 1%. So how did the arab muslims become the only ones to be given the right to declare a state when they were in the minority .

I have never said that. You haven't been following my posts.
 
Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.

Mohammed Omer *@Mogaza

#Israel tankshell hit ICU at Aqsa hospital, 5 killed so far and 16 injured. hospital is under shelling now, central #Gaza

22 minutes ago

Gaza / Current.ly
Why did that Israeli tank fire at the hospital?

Was Hamas firing on IDF forces from within the hospital complex?

Does Hamas use the hospital or its basement-bunker for a command post?

When you emplace war-assets into such a building, it loses its immunity from hostile fire.

Rightfully so.

Hamas does that kind of shit all the time.

If Hamas WAS conducting operations from that locale...

Did the IDF tank crew run-up a decent score of dead Hamas scumbags?

Should we send the IDF tank crew some gift certificates for free steak dinners or something?

does it matter. it's a tank shooting a ******* hospital.




Well if you need to ask that question then you are blinded by your hatred of the Jews. The Geneva conventions, which the Palestinians have just signed up to, deals with this in detail and spells it out so even morons can understand it.
 
...is israel really doing the right thing by causing so much death and destruction?
If you are fighting a 'them or us' kind of war, against an enemy who will not make peace, and who will not stop shooting...

In which you either destroy the enemy's war-making ability, or risk losing more of your own...

And if, in the process, you are going to end-up inadvertently killing a fair number of enemy civilians, in order to get at the enemy war-making ability...

You are, in truth, making a hard but logical choice, in valuing the life of your own people, over the lives of the enemy...

Something that mankind has done (on a small scale, a middling scale, and a large scale) since time immemorial...

Israel chooses life for its own people, at the expense of the enemy...

Not exactly a difficult concept to grasp...

The Israelis have gone into Gaza to gut the enemy's fighters and the enemy's war-making capability...

The Israelis, following long-standing common practice for their operations, have even gone so far as to warn civilians well in advance of their strikes...

It's understandable that some few (the handicapped, etc.) might not be able to evacuate, given 1-2 days advance notice...

But there is no excuse for so many civilians remaining behind, so long after being warned that the shooting was going to begin...

Unless, of course, those slimy Hamas bastards are holding civilians in-place at gunpoint...

In which case, Masters and Serfs end-up dying together...
 
Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.

Mohammed Omer *@Mogaza

#Israel tankshell hit ICU at Aqsa hospital, 5 killed so far and 16 injured. hospital is under shelling now, central #Gaza

22 minutes ago

Gaza / Current.ly
Why did that Israeli tank fire at the hospital?

Was Hamas firing on IDF forces from within the hospital complex?

Does Hamas use the hospital or its basement-bunker for a command post?

When you emplace war-assets into such a building, it loses its immunity from hostile fire.

Rightfully so.

Hamas does that kind of shit all the time.

If Hamas WAS conducting operations from that locale...

Did the IDF tank crew run-up a decent score of dead Hamas scumbags?

Should we send the IDF tank crew some gift certificates for free steak dinners or something?

Smoked salmon and champagne would be better, followed by Cuban cigars and 5 star brandy
Let's not go nuts with the rewards... there are gonna be a lot of dead Hamas slimebags before this is done... then again, on second thought, maybe it would be worthwhile...
tongue_smile.gif
 
does it matter. it's a tank shooting a ******* hospital.
Yes. It matters a LOT, if troops are housed within, and especially if they are conducting operations from within, and most especially if they are actually firing from within.

========================================

From the website of the International Committee of the Red Cross...

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Commentary - Art. 19. Part II : General protection of populations against certain consequences of war

[p.154] ARTICLE 19 [ Link ] . -- DISCONTINUANCE OF PROTECTION OF HOSPITALS


PARAGRAPH 1. -- CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH
PROTECTION IS DISCONTINUED

1. ' Basic condition -- Acts harmful to the enemy '

The immunity bestowed on civilian hospitals cannot be taken away unless they are used to commit acts harmful to the enemy. The wording adopted by the Diplomatic Conference was intended to draw attention to the exceptional character of the provision and to make it clear that protection could only be discontinued in this one case.

Despite the efforts of the 1949 Conference (1), it was not found possible to produce a more concrete definition of the notion "acts harmful to the enemy" (in the French version: actes nuisibles à l'ennemi), which had already been used in the 1929 version of the First Geneva Convention. The idea was made clearer, however, by the insertion of the phrase "outside their humanitarian duties".

Such harmful acts would, for example, include the use of a hospital as a shelter for able-bodied combatants or fugitives, as an arms or ammunition store, as a military observation post, or as a centre for liaison with fighting troops.

...

</title> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/xsp/.ibmxspres/.mini/css/@Da&@Ib&2Tfxsp.css&2TfxspLTR.css.css"> <script type="text/javascript" src="/xsp/.ibmxspres/dojoroot-1.6.1/dojo/dojo.js" djConfig="locale: 'fr-ch'"></script> <script type=

========================================

Under such circumstances, the hospital loses its immunity from attack.

Questions?

oh, you thought i meant does it matter as in does it matter if israel has some sort of legal right to do it.

frankly, i don't care about that.

the optics of a tank shelling a hospital are what matters - and if there were soldiers or weapons inside why weren't troops sent in to collect them instead of shelling the whole damn building from a tank?



Logistics of the situation a tank can cause more damage to the military potential by reducing the ability to use it again. They could have used bombs from a plane instead and destroyed the hospital all together. Why put soldiers lives at risk when you don't have to ?
 
Sorry ogi,
Even most Hitler youth got over the propaganda once the war was over.

when the propaganda is that you try to avoid civilian casualties and then you have a tank shelling a hospital i think we can guess which propaganda can and will be dismissed.



They will have been given fair warning of the attack so the blame lies with hamas once again. Read the Geneva conventions.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

The Security Council edict is just a variation of the Charter Article 33 in Chapter VI, Pacific Settlements of Disputes, as amplified by Rule of Law in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations. The territory Occupied since 1967 is not a matter for nor does it require liberation. It is a state that openly supports terrorism (Jihadist and Fedayeen that claim "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" and "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad"); a state that requires containment, quarantine and control. It is a state that refuses to participate in good faith negotiations for peace and poses a threat to Israel and the region by organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating Jihadist and Fedayeen activities and terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.

P F Tinmore, et al,

(SIDEBAR)

Related to your insert of the Youtube Video of "Lamis Deek Incites Intifada at the Palestinian "statehood" Protest," and comment that "You gotta love Palestinian women;" it
should be remembered that:

Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001) Adopted by the Security Council at its 4385th meeting said:
Declares that acts, methods, and practices of terrorism are contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations and that knowingly financing, planning and inciting terrorist acts are also contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations;

SOURCE: S/RES/1373 (2001)

Most Respectfully,
R

It is illegal to "incite" liberation?

Where does it say that?
(COMMENT)

Ms Deek is inciting --- NOT Liberation --- but, "Intifada" (uprising or conflict).

To liberate "Palestine" is to suggest that the Arab Palestinian has some sort of valid "sovereign claim" of some defined territory. Without the General Assembly Resolution adopted by the General Assembly Resolution 67/19 - Status of Palestine in the United Nations - which reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, there is nothing to point to that actually stipulates any Palestinian claim of actually demonstrates Arab Palestinian control. It can be argued that the Arab Palestinian, expect for Gaza and the Area "A" of the West Bank, has not firmly establish "control." Be that as it may, the reality is that the "territory occupied since 1967" is considered "the State of Palestine."

At the end of the day, War of Liberation or NOT, Ms Deek is attempting to incite a disturbance and violence in order to settle a territorial dispute by force. This would be totally inconsistent with the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations was adopted by the General Assembly on 24 October 1970 [Resolution 26/25 (XXV)], "considering it equally essential that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter," and "Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States."

(BOTTOM LINE)

The use of conflict by the Arab Palestinian to settle their perception of the dispute, is totally incompatible and inconsistent with customary interpretations of international principles.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Them people have no business telling our country what's going on outside we do t want to hear that in my private home amongst my family get lost mr.government and great company don't ever exist again. I will hunt your family for an eternity.
 
Sorry ogi,
Even most Hitler youth got over the propaganda once the war was over.

when the propaganda is that you try to avoid civilian casualties and then you have a tank shelling a hospital i think we can guess which propaganda can and will be dismissed.



They will have been given fair warning of the attack so the blame lies with hamas once again. Read the Geneva conventions.

Hospital spokesman said they had several days of calls to remove the patients. There were only 17 patients still in the hospital and most of the staff had been sent home.
Some reports say four, others say six, were killed and they were the fighters operating the M75 rockets that were fired from the hospital.
A window that extends the top three floors of one building of the complex was damaged. Most of the complex looks untouched.
 
Last edited:
when the propaganda is that you try to avoid civilian casualties and then you have a tank shelling a hospital i think we can guess which propaganda can and will be dismissed.



They will have been given fair warning of the attack so the blame lies with hamas once again. Read the Geneva conventions.

Hospital spokesman said they had several days of calls to remove the patients. There were only 17 patients still in the hospital and most of the staff had been sent home.
Some reports say four, others say six, were killed and they were the fighters operating the M75 rockets that were fired from the hospital.

your report makes no sense, aris-----sherri has informed us that 2 patients ---were
undergoing surgery ----and IN THE OPERATING ROOMS-----when bombs hit the
OPERATING ROOMS on the third floor------and killed the 2 patients-----she did not
tell us what happened to the surgeons or the anesthesiologist or the
scrub nurses I do not believe that a hospital with only 17 patients would have
TWO in surgery at the same time.... especially since most of the staff was gone---
that would be insane. Surgeon are touchy people-----and ANESTHESIOLOGISTS
are worse--------they would not allow rockets being shot from the hospital-----
the action might ignite the flammable gases used in the Operating room----
at which point EVERYONE blows up
 
They will have been given fair warning of the attack so the blame lies with hamas once again. Read the Geneva conventions.

Hospital spokesman said they had several days of calls to remove the patients. There were only 17 patients still in the hospital and most of the staff had been sent home.
Some reports say four, others say six, were killed and they were the fighters operating the M75 rockets that were fired from the hospital.

your report makes no sense, aris-----sherri has informed us that 2 patients ---were
undergoing surgery ----and IN THE OPERATING ROOMS-----when bombs hit the
OPERATING ROOMS on the third floor------and killed the 2 patients-----she did not
tell us what happened to the surgeons or the anesthesiologist or the
scrub nurses I do not believe that a hospital with only 17 patients would have
TWO in surgery at the same time.... especially since most of the staff was gone---
that would be insane. Surgeon are touchy people-----and ANESTHESIOLOGISTS
are worse--------they would not allow rockets being shot from the hospital-----
the action might ignite the flammable gases used in the Operating room----
at which point EVERYONE blows up

A tank fired on Al-aqsa hospital killing four and injuring a number of people.

al-Wafa was a rehabilitation hospital that had mostly been evacuated.
 
Hospital spokesman said they had several days of calls to remove the patients. There were only 17 patients still in the hospital and most of the staff had been sent home.
Some reports say four, others say six, were killed and they were the fighters operating the M75 rockets that were fired from the hospital.

your report makes no sense, aris-----sherri has informed us that 2 patients ---were
undergoing surgery ----and IN THE OPERATING ROOMS-----when bombs hit the
OPERATING ROOMS on the third floor------and killed the 2 patients-----she did not
tell us what happened to the surgeons or the anesthesiologist or the
scrub nurses I do not believe that a hospital with only 17 patients would have
TWO in surgery at the same time.... especially since most of the staff was gone---
that would be insane. Surgeon are touchy people-----and ANESTHESIOLOGISTS
are worse--------they would not allow rockets being shot from the hospital-----
the action might ignite the flammable gases used in the Operating room----
at which point EVERYONE blows up

A tank fired on Al-aqsa hospital killing four and injuring a number of people.

al-Wafa was a rehabilitation hospital that had mostly been evacuated.


that report seems reasonable-----especially since there were rocket shooters mounted
somewhere on the hospital------but what about the TWO ON THE OPERATING
TABLE how could that possibly be? Oh---there is more----there were ANTI TANK
rocket things mounted right beside the hospital
 
15th post
Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.

Mohammed Omer &#63743;*@Mogaza

#Israel tankshell hit ICU at Aqsa hospital, 5 killed so far and 16 injured. hospital is under shelling now, central #Gaza

22 minutes ago

Gaza / Current.ly
Why did that Israeli tank fire at the hospital?

Was Hamas firing on IDF forces from within the hospital complex?

Does Hamas use the hospital or its basement-bunker for a command post?

When you emplace war-assets into such a building, it loses its immunity from hostile fire.

Rightfully so.

Hamas does that kind of shit all the time.

If Hamas WAS conducting operations from that locale...

Did the IDF tank crew run-up a decent score of dead Hamas scumbags?

Should we send the IDF tank crew some gift certificates for free steak dinners or something?

Your damn skippy. I'd pitch in on that one...........

Hamas has done this BS in the past, and then cry when the IDF fires on the Hospital. It's a dang tactic to cause Civilian Deaths.............

They are Scum............
 
Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.

Mohammed Omer &#63743;*@Mogaza

#Israel tankshell hit ICU at Aqsa hospital, 5 killed so far and 16 injured. hospital is under shelling now, central #Gaza

22 minutes ago

Gaza / Current.ly
Why did that Israeli tank fire at the hospital?

Was Hamas firing on IDF forces from within the hospital complex?

Does Hamas use the hospital or its basement-bunker for a command post?

When you emplace war-assets into such a building, it loses its immunity from hostile fire.

Rightfully so.

Hamas does that kind of shit all the time.

If Hamas WAS conducting operations from that locale...

Did the IDF tank crew run-up a decent score of dead Hamas scumbags?

Should we send the IDF tank crew some gift certificates for free steak dinners or something?

Your damn skippy. I'd pitch in on that one...........

Hamas has done this BS in the past, and then cry when the IDF fires on the Hospital. It's a dang tactic to cause Civilian Deaths.............

They are Scum............


Yepp.
 
Hamas's Civilian Death Strategy

Gazans shelter terrorists and their weapons in their homes, right beside sofas and dirty diapers.

By THANE ROSENBAUM - July 21, 2014 3:19 p.m. ET

Let's state the obvious: No one likes to see dead children. Well, that's not completely true: Hamas does. They would prefer those children to be Jewish, but there is greater value to them if they are Palestinian. Outmatched by Israel's military, handicapped by rocket launchers with the steady hands of Barney Fife, Hamas is playing the long game of moral revulsion.

With this conflict about to enter its third week, winning the PR war is the best Hamas can hope to achieve. Their weapon of choice, however, seems to be the cannon fodder of their own people, performing double duty in also sounding the drumbeat of Israeli condemnation. If you can't beat Iron Dome, then deploy sacrificial children as human shields.

Civilian casualties will continue to mount. The evolving story will focus on the collateral damage of Palestinian lives. Israel's moral dilemma will receive little attention. Each time the ledgers of relative loss are reported, world public opinion will turn against the Jewish state and box Israel into an even tighter corner of the Middle East.

All the ordinary rules of warfare are upended in Gaza. Everything about this conflict is asymmetrical—Hamas wears no uniforms and they don't meet Israeli soldiers on battlefields. With the exception of kaffiyeh scarves, it isn't possible to distinguish a Hamas militant from a noncombatant pharmacist. In Vietnam, the U.S. military learned guerrilla warfare in jungles. In Gaza, the Jewish state has had to adapt to the altogether surreal terrain of apartment complexes and schoolhouses.

There are now reports that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are transporting themselves throughout Gaza in ambulances packed with children. Believe it or not, a donkey laden with explosives detonated just the other day.

...

The people of Gaza overwhelmingly elected Hamas, a terrorist outfit dedicated to the destruction of Israel, as their designated representatives. Almost instantly Hamas began stockpiling weapons and using them against a more powerful foe with a solid track record of retaliation.

What did Gazans think was going to happen? Surely they must have understood on election night that their lives would now be suspended in a state of utter chaos. Life expectancy would be miserably low; children would be without a future. Staying alive would be a challenge, if staying alive even mattered anymore.

To make matters worse, Gazans sheltered terrorists and their weapons in their homes, right beside ottoman sofas and dirty diapers. When Israel warned them of impending attacks, the inhabitants defiantly refused to leave.

...

It also calls your parenting skills into serious question. In the U.S. if a parent is found to have locked his or her child in a parked car on a summer day with the windows closed, a social worker takes the children away from the demonstrably unfit parent. In Gaza, parents who place their children in the direct line of fire are rewarded with an interview on MSNBC where they can call Israel a genocidal murderer.

Surely there are civilians who have been killed in this conflict who have taken every step to distance themselves from this fast-moving war zone, and children whose parents are not card-carrying Hamas loyalists. These are the true innocents of Gaza. It is they for whom our sympathy should be reserved. The impossibility of identifying them, and saving them, is Israel's deepest moral dilemma..

==========

Mr. Rosenbaum, a novelist, essayist and professor at the New York University School of Law, is the author, most recently, of "Payback: The Case for Revenge."

Thane Rosenbaum: Hamas's Civilian Death Strategy - WSJ
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

The right of self-determination belongs to "ALL People;" without regard to their point of origin. It is not a unique right to the Palestinians.

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is the same argument, that the Arab Palestinian has been mustering for more than half a century. It is, as Ms Lamis Deek and our friend PF Tinmore, does Israel have the right to exist?

Both Ms Deek and PF Tinmore, claim that Israel "does not have" the “right to exist as a Jewish state." Well, in a sense, this is a larger question as to the criteria under which any nation has the right to exist.

Probably because it is true.

A state, or government if you will, has no rights. It is the people who have rights. A government constituted by the will of the people is merely an extension of the rights of the people.

Palestine is a nation of people inside a territory defined by international borders. Palestine is their country. As a nation of people inside a defined territory they have the right to:
Self determination without external interference.​
Independence and sovereignty.​
Territorial integrity.​
The Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, have the right to establish a government and declare a state inside their international borders without external interference.

Israel is an alien domination of Palestine. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich be the foreign World Zionist Organization. Its intended population was foreign settlers who were imported by the Zionists to populate the planned Jewish state.

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Israel was created with the virtual unanimous opposition of the native population and has never had the support of the majority of people.

Outside the UN during the statehood vote.
(OBSERVATION)

Relative to your insistent claim that the Arab Palestinians have some "international borders." I assume you are talking about the recognition by the UN of the "sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967" as stipulated in the UN Acknowledgement to the proclamation of the State of Palestine (A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988). That is the recognized borders of "Palestine" after 1988.

If you are referring to something different, I would like a little more of a reference so I may address it directly.

Most Respectfully,
R

I was. I mean the international borders that Palestine has had since 1922.
 
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