The Greater Israel Theory is an Antisemitic Myth

[Lisa558]

To counteract the lie being pushed by antisemites on this thread, I bring up the reasons why the Greater Israel project is being twisted to drive more hostility toward Jews:

1) Israel has always offered land for peace, thus willing to reduce its area, but the Jew-hating Palestinians have always rejected the offers.

2) Any increase in land mass (now currently 0.4% with Arabs taking 99.6%) has been a fraction of a percent and driven by security concerns - not expansion.

3) Those who are claiming Israel’s war on Iran is driven by this “expansion” myth ignore that Israel never had any plans to take any part of Iran.

4) In 1979, Israel returned the entire Sinai Peninsula to Egypt.

5) In 2005, Israel vacated Gaza. (And look at the thanks they got.)

Why the “Greater Israel” theory is false - IsraelFAQs

This post is also available in: English Español (Spanish) Italiano (Italian) Português (Portuguese (Brazil)) Русский (Russian)Short answer Anti-Israel voices often accuse the country of pursuing a so-called “Greater Israel” agenda—claiming it is driven by a religiously motivated, systematic...

israelfaqs.com

 

[Lisa558]

Even if the Greater Israel thread WERE true, Israel could double its land mass and still have less than 1% - with the Arabs having more than 99%!

 

[JoeB131]

To counteract the lie being pushed by antisemites on this thread, I bring up the reasons why the Greater Israel project is being twisted to drive more hostility toward Jews:

1) Israel has always offered land for peace, thus willing to reduce its area, but the Jew-hating Palestinians have always rejected the offers.

If I stole your house, would you be grateful if I 'let' you live in the unheated garage?

2) Any increase in land mass (now currently 0.4% with Arabs taking 99.6%) has been a fraction of a percent and driven by security concerns - not expansion.

3) Those who are claiming Israel’s war on Iran is driven by this “expansion” myth ignore that Israel never had any plans to take any part of Iran.

No, their goal is to destroy a government that might set a populist example to the rest of the Islamic world. Corrupt despots they can live with, a populist movement they can't.

4) In 1979, Israel returned the entire Sinai Peninsula to Egypt.

Only because they realized in 1973 that it was impossible to defend.

5) In 2005, Israel vacated Gaza. (And look at the thanks they got.)

Only because they were only able to scam 9000 Jews into moving there. Again, don't steal my house and expect me to be grateful for the unheated garage.

Even if the Greater Israel thread WERE true, Israel could double its land mass and still have less than 1% - with the Arabs having more than 99%!

They had 100% before 1948.

They want to go back to that.

Here's the better question. Why are you so keen to live next to people who want to kill you? Let's leave aside whether or not they have a valid reason to want to kill you, the very fact that they do should be a good reason to not live there.

I mean, if I saw my neighbors strapping bombs onto their kids and pointing at my house, I would move.

 

[Dragonlady]

Even if the Greater Israel thread WERE true, Israel could double its land mass and still have less than 1% - with the Arabs having more than 99%!

View attachment 1234994

To counteract the lie being pushed by antisemites on this thread, I bring up the reasons why the Greater Israel project is being twisted to drive more hostility toward Jews:

1) Israel has always offered land for peace, thus willing to reduce its area, but the Jew-hating Palestinians have always rejected the offers.

2) Any increase in land mass (now currently 0.4% with Arabs taking 99.6%) has been a fraction of a percent and driven by security concerns - not expansion.

3) Those who are claiming Israel’s war on Iran is driven by this “expansion” myth ignore that Israel never had any plans to take any part of Iran.

4) In 1979, Israel returned the entire Sinai Peninsula to Egypt.

5) In 2005, Israel vacated Gaza. (And look at the thanks they got.)


View attachment 1234991

Why the “Greater Israel” theory is false - IsraelFAQs

This post is also available in: English Español (Spanish) Italiano (Italian) Português (Portuguese (Brazil)) Русский (Russian)Short answer Anti-Israel voices often accuse the country of pursuing a so-called “Greater Israel” agenda—claiming it is driven by a religiously motivated, systematic...

israelfaqs.com

The behaviour of the Netanyahu government in committing genocide on the Palestinians is driving anti-Israel sentiment.

The Jews left the Middle East nearly 2000 years ago. They came back in 1949, after 2000 years in exile, and reclaimed land they hadn't lived on since the birth of Jesus.

And now you say it's wrong for the Arabs not to give them back whatever land they want to claim.

 

[luiza]

Interesting to see the Cultist OP trying to defend the tribe that want Goyim world wide slaughtered before they welcome the appearance of the Mashiach as they refer to it / him in Hebrew.

This is their Messiah but in human form .
No . I am not joking .
Probably Motor Mouth Trumpfy dressed up and with wings .

Just some background to the very real Greater Israel Plan .

 

[rosends]

The behaviour of the Netanyahu government in committing genocide on the Palestinians is driving anti-Israel sentiment.

that is factually untrue.

The Jews left the Middle East nearly 2000 years ago.

Many were exiled, forced to leave.

They came back in 1949, after 2000 years in exile, and reclaimed land they hadn't lived on since the birth of Jesus.

inaccurate. There were Jews living in the region consistently through history.

Amazon.com

And now you say it's wrong for the Arabs not to give them back whatever land they want to claim.

That isn't what is happening.

 

[rosends]

Interesting to see the Cultist OP trying to defend the tribe that want Goyim world wide slaughtered before they welcome the appearance of the Mashiach as they refer to it / him in Hebrew.

This is their Messiah but in human form .
No . I am not joking .
Probably Motor Mouth Trumpfy dressed up and with wings .

Just some background to the very real Greater Israel Plan .

more inaccuracies. Who wants anyone slaughtered? Why do you think that slaughter is required for a messiah's appearance? Judaism doesn't teach that.

 

[Dragonlady]

that is factually untrue.

Many were exiled, forced to leave.

inaccurate. There were Jews living in the region consistently through history.

Amazon.com

That isn't what is happening.

That IS what happened. 70,000 Palestinians are DEAD. That's Genocide.

Regardless of why the Jews left, they left 2000 years ago. Stop pretending they can just come back 2000 years later and get their land back.

If that were true, Native Americans can demand you give them back the USA and go back to Europe. You've only been on their land for 400 years. Get out!

 

[rosends]

That IS what happened. 70,000 Palestinians are DEAD. That's Genocide.

no, that's war and those numbers are not what you think of them.

Gaza Fatality Data Has Become Completely Unreliable

Given the discrepancies in official Palestinian counts and their growing reliance on questionable data from media reports, the credibility gaps revealed by a previous Washington Institute study have become yawning chasms.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

also, "genocide" is a specific thing and this isn't it.

Regardless of why the Jews left, they left 2000 years ago.

you mean some were forced to leave. That's an important distinction.

Stop pretending they can just come back 2000 years later and get their land back.

So you would say the same about Arabs who were forced to leave?

If that were true, Native Americans can demand you give them back the USA and go back to Europe. You've only been on their land for 400 years. Get out!

so the Arabs have no claim. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[luiza]

more inaccuracies. Who wants anyone slaughtered? Why do you think that slaughter is required for a messiah's appearance? Judaism doesn't teach that.

It teaches exactly that .
It is a pre-requisite .

 

[rosends]

It teaches exactly that .

show me where

It is a pre-requisite .

show me.

 

[toomuchtime_]

That IS what happened. 70,000 Palestinians are DEAD. That's Genocide.

Regardless of why the Jews left, they left 2000 years ago. Stop pretending they can just come back 2000 years later and get their land back.

If that were true, Native Americans can demand you give them back the USA and go back to Europe. You've only been on their land for 400 years. Get out!

As always, your post is grounded firmly in ignorance and bigotry. The Jewish people emerged as a distinct people three thousand years ago and have always had a presence in the ME since then, but since the Islamic conquest of the ME beginning in the sixth century they had been forced to live as second class citizens in Muslim lands, subject to oppression and persecution as prescribed by Sharia law.

From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce.

“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain

At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...

www.neh.gov

With the strong influx of western values in the ME following WWI, the Jews in the ME finally liberated themselves from Muslim oppression.

 

[JLW]

The behaviour of the Netanyahu government in committing genocide on the Palestinians is driving anti-Israel sentiment.

The Jews left the Middle East nearly 2000 years ago. They came back in 1949, after 2000 years in exile, and reclaimed land they hadn't lived on since the birth of Jesus.

And now you say it's wrong for the Arabs not to give them back whatever land they want to claim.

I found your assertion interesting and decided to ask AI (I know this is the lazy way out) whether there were more Jews living in Israel or Judea as it was known then or outside Judea during the Roman era. This is how it responded:

During the Roman era,
more Jews lived outside the Land of Israel (the Diaspora) than within it, even before the major Jewish-Roman wars.


Population Estimates
While exact historical numbers are debated, many scholars agree that the Jewish Diaspora significantly outnumbered the population in Judea.

• Total Population: Modern estimates often place the total Jewish population in the Roman Empire between 3.5 and 7 million.
• Proportion: Historians estimate that roughly 60% to 75% of the world's Jewish population lived in the Diaspora during the 1st century CE.
• Specific Regions: Large Jewish communities were established in Alexandria (Egypt), Rome, Antioch (Syria), and Babylon (outside the Roman Empire).

*****************************

So even before the Expulsions of the later 1st and 2nd centuries, 75% of the native population had left Judea.

Interesting. Of course, this may be subject to debate.

I would add there are more Germans, English, Italians, Irish living in the diaspora than in their native countries. So, this may not be unusual, though the percentages are admittedly high for Judea.

 

[georgephillip]

To counteract the lie being pushed by antisemites on this thread, I bring up the reasons why the Greater Israel project is being twisted to drive more hostility toward Jews:

1) Israel has always offered land for peace, thus willing to reduce its area, but the Jew-hating Palestinians have always rejected the offers.

2) Any increase in land mass (now currently 0.4% with Arabs taking 99.6%) has been a fraction of a percent and driven by security concerns - not expansion.

3) Those who are claiming Israel’s war on Iran is driven by this “expansion” myth ignore that Israel never had any plans to take any part of Iran.

4) In 1979, Israel returned the entire Sinai Peninsula to Egypt.

5) In 2005, Israel vacated Gaza. (And look at the thanks they got.)


View attachment 1234991

Why the “Greater Israel” theory is false - IsraelFAQs

This post is also available in: English Español (Spanish) Italiano (Italian) Português (Portuguese (Brazil)) Русский (Russian)Short answer Anti-Israel voices often accuse the country of pursuing a so-called “Greater Israel” agenda—claiming it is driven by a religiously motivated, systematic...

israelfaqs.com

How are you defining Greater Israel?

Greater Israel - Wikipedia

"Early Zionism​

Zionist leader Theodore Herzl c.1898

"Theodore Herzl, one of the founders of Zionism, was influenced by the Tanakh in his thinking on the borders for a Jewish State in Palestine.

"In the words of professor of history H.S. Haddad: 'Herzl's idea of the geographical extent of the Jewish state was derived from the biblical romance of the Davidic Kingdom.'"

Map of David's Kingdom - Ancient Near East

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The greater Israel story is designed to remove the claim that Israel has a right to live in peace with its neighbors. It is being portrayed as Israel extending control over surrounding Arab states. As if it is normal and necessary for Muslims to want to kill Jews and anything less is tyranny.

 

[Lisa558]

The greater Israel story is designed to remove the claim that Israel has a right to live in peace with its neighbors. It is being portrayed as Israel extending control over surrounding Arab states. As if it is normal and necessary for Muslims to want to kill Jews and anything less is tyranny.

It is a one-sided, villifying story to make the Jews look evil and devious while ignoring the heinous teachings and actions of Muslims.

 

[toomuchtime_]

How are you defining Greater Israel?

Greater Israel - Wikipedia

"Early Zionism​

Zionist leader Theodore Herzl c.1898

"Theodore Herzl, one of the founders of Zionism, was influenced by the Tanakh in his thinking on the borders for a Jewish State in Palestine.

"In the words of professor of history H.S. Haddad: 'Herzl's idea of the geographical extent of the Jewish state was derived from the biblical romance of the Davidic Kingdom.'"

Map of David's Kingdom - Ancient Near East

In other words, you are saying you know of no evidence of a "Greater Israel project" being a plan of the Israeli government.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It is a one-sided, villifying story to make the Jews look evil and devious while ignoring the heinous teachings and actions of Muslims.

It doesn't make much sense as we see the destruction Islam spreads around the world.

 

[Winston]

As always, your post is grounded firmly in ignorance and bigotry. The Jewish people emerged as a distinct people three thousand years ago and have always had a presence in the ME since then, but since the Islamic conquest of the ME beginning in the sixth century they had been forced to live as second class citizens in Muslim lands, subject to oppression and persecution as prescribed by Sharia law.

From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce.

“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain

At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...

www.neh.gov

With the strong influx of western values in the ME following WWI, the Jews in the ME finally liberated themselves from Muslim oppression.

Wow, talk about historical revisionism. If you are talking about the Jews that remained in the Middle East, that were living as second class citizens in Muslim lands, then you are talking about the Mizrahi Jews. Funny thing, the Mizrahi have been systematically discriminated against, living as second class citizens, in ISRAEL. The key word here, the one no one knows, Ashkenormative.

Here is my peace offer. We return all of Israel to the Mizrahi. Hell, I bet the Palestinians will up and voluntarily leave. Those other Arab countries will let them in. Or better, they won't have to leave. They can become citizens of the new Mizrahi Israel. There is no doubt, the Mizrahi would treat them better than the current Ashkenormative Likuid party. And there is no doubt they will have better relations with their neighbors.

As to the Ashkenazi living in Israel. Get out, get out now. You hear both sides wax about how peaceful they lived together before Israel was created. Well hell, that is because the Ashkenazi weren't there. I mean even within sects of Judaism, you can clearly see the divide. Take the Haredim, the majority of the illegal settlers. The Ashkenazi branch, the majority of membership, rampant Zionist. But the Sephardic Haredim, theologically neutral when it comes to the State of Israel and only reluctantly following the leadership in support of Zionism.

 

[Shusha]

The greater Israel story is designed to remove the claim that Israel has a right to live in peace with its neighbors. It is being portrayed as Israel extending control over surrounding Arab states. As if it is normal and necessary for Muslims to want to kill Jews and anything less is tyranny.

The "greater Israel" story, and all the other stories presented on this thread. All designed to disconnect and erase the Jewish people from their homeland and/or paint them as inherently problematic to live with.