Baldwin Update

[Flash]

A. That gun was likely supposed to have dummy rounds in it since the camera was so close and pointed directly at the gun. As you should well know...a single action revolver will show empty cylinders if there is nothing there.

There is no practical way for an actor to be able to tell the difference between a live round and a dummy round since the dummy is identical except for the removal of the powder charge which is not visible.

B. There was discussion with the cinematographer regarding the hammer pull. Is Baldwin lying about that? It was filmed so that's doubtful.

Baldwin is quoted as saying something like:

"I am an old school actor. I know how to ride a horse, ride a motorcycle and shoot a gun".

If you are going to produce a movie with firearms you had better make sure it is safe to do so.

If you have a gun in your hand it is up to you obey the four rules of gun safety. That can't be out sourced, even if you are a Limousine Liberal.

By the way, I can tell the difference between real and blank rounds.

 

[Lesh]

By the way, I can tell the difference between real and blank rounds.

So can I...but that's not the issue.

Can you tell the difference between a live and a DUMMY round?

How?

 

[Lesh]

I hate it when my gun just starts shooting by itself. Especially when it’s by my bed at night or I’m caring it concealed.

Where the hell are you "concealing it" in your bed?

never mind. I don't need to know

 

[JGalt]

So Baldwin was an idiot for pulling back the hammer and releasing it while pointing it at somebody? Without checking to see if it had live rounds? Taking somebody else's word that it had no live ammo? Not hiring a competent armorer?

Dat Boy dun fucked up!

You can't pull the hammer back and release it on a Pietta replica of a Colt 1873, without pulling the trigger. Like any other revolver built on that pattern, the hammer has a safety notch when you pull it back slightly. The hammer either has to be pulled back a fraction of an inch and the trigger pulled a little to disengage the notch, or else pulled all the way back and the trigger pulled to let the hammer back down.

Most modern-day reproductions based on the Colt 1973 have a transfer bar system that doesn't allow the hammer to tough the firing pin, unless it's pulled to full cock. The original Colt 1873 did not have a transfer bar and had a floating firing pin. If the hammer was down on a loaded chamber, it could accidentally go off if the hammer was struck.

The "prop gun" he used was most likely bought from a company named "Great Western Firearms." They specialize in reproduction pistols that are manufactured exactly like the originals. They are also made by Pietta...

Models – Great Western Firearms

 

[marvin martian]

Of course, very possible with a single action revolver.

Baldwin and his lawyer are banking on ignorance like yours with this strategy. Here's to hoping the jurors are smarter than you (99% likely, thankfully).

 

[Flash]

So can I...but that's not the issue.

Can you tell the difference between a live and a DUMMY round?

How?

Every dummy round I have ever seen in my life has been distinguishable from a live round. Weight, color, materials, markings, etc.

If I am handed a working firearm and point it at somebody and cock it or dry fire it I am sure as hell going to make sure it is safe. Gun safety can't be out sourced.

It certainly can't be out sourced especially if I am the one hiring the person I out sourced it to.

 

[Lesh]

You can't pull the hammer back and release it on a Pietta replica of a Colt 1873, without pulling the trigger.

Untrue. It SHOULD be blocked from dropping once it has reached HALF cocked (which is not a fraction of an inch). Was the transfer bar or block functional?

If it has not reached half cock it can fall on the transfer bar.

Incidentally the half cock position is NOT considered a safety but rather part of the loading mechanism

Every dummy round I have ever seen in my life has been distinguishable from a live round. Weight, color, materials, markings, etc.

If I am handed a working firearm and point it at somebody and cock it or dry fire it I am sure as hell going to make sure it is safe. Gun safety can't be out sourced.

It certainly can't be out sourced especially if I am the one hiring the person I out sourced it to.

Dummy rounds

 

[Flash]

Untrue. It SHOULD be blocked from dropping once it has reached HALF cocked (which is not a fraction of an inch). Was the transfer bar or block functional?

If it has not reached half cock it can fall on the transfer bar.

Incidentally the half cock position is NOT considered a safety but rather part of the loading mechanism

View attachment 571268

Dummy rounds

Like I said, anytime I have ever seen any dummy rounds I have been able to tell. Weight, composition etc.

It is obvious that Baldwin never checked.

 

[JGalt]

Untrue. It SHOULD be blocked from dropping once it has reached HALF cocked (which is not a fraction of an inch). Was the transfer bar or block functional?

If it has not reached half cock it can fall on the transfer bar.

Incidentally the half cock position is NOT considered a safety but rather part of the loading mechanism

View attachment 571268

Dummy rounds

Pictured is a Uberti New Cattleman Magnum I have. It is identical in design the the Colt 1873, and the Piettta reproductions, except for the firing pin being on the hammer, and having a hammer block safety mechanism. The half cock is engaged at 0.516 inches, which is a fraction of an inch. The Pietta reproduction used in the filming was most likely manufactured to the exact original Colt 1873 specs, and has no transfer bar. It has a floating firing pin and can be fired by dropping the hammer from the half cock position. Which contrary to what Mr. Baldwin says, required the pulling of the trigger.

BTW: The 'dummy rounds" you pictured are rimless. They are for a semi-auto pistol, not a revolver.

 

[dblack]

Funny thing is 47% will believe it.

Yep. And 47% wont - purely for political reasons.

But there's nothing political about the incident. The two party shitshow has driven us into national insanity.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Baldwin and his lawyer are banking on ignorance like yours with this strategy. Here's to hoping the jurors are smarter than you (99% likely, thankfully).

Maybe you just haven't been keepin' up, but Baldwin hasn't even been charged. Any discussion about jurors is, at best, ridiculously premature.

Personally, I don't think he gets charged at all...

 

[Lesh]

Like I said, anytime I have ever seen any dummy rounds I have been able to tell. Weight, composition etc.

It is obvious that Baldwin never checked.

I posted a pic above of dummy rounds. How can you tell with those?

 

[Lesh]

Pictured is a Uberti New Cattleman Magnum I have. It is identical in design the the Colt 1873, and the Piettta reproductions, except for the firing pin being on the hammer, and having a hammer block safety mechanism. The half cock is engaged at 0.516 inches, which is a fraction of an inch. The Pietta reproduction used in the filming was most likely manufactured to the exact original Colt 1873 specs, and has no transfer bar. It has a floating firing pin and can be fired by dropping the hammer from the half cock position. Which contrary to what Mr. Baldwin says, required the pulling of the trigger.

BTW: The 'dummy rounds" you pictured are rimless. They are for a semi-auto pistol, not a revolver.

View attachment 571274

View attachment 571275

Fine. Now tell me that a half inch drop CAN'T fire a round off.

And oh yea...again. Half cock is NOT a safety

 

[Rye Catcher]

Wonder how 'blaming the gun' will work?

Will it become a standard plea?

It was self defense.

 

[Lesh]

BTW: The 'dummy rounds" you pictured are rimless. They are for a semi-auto pistol, not a revolver.

The RIM is not the issue

 

[marvin martian]

Fine. Now tell me that a half inch drop CAN'T fire a round off.

And oh yea...again. Half cock is NOT a safety

It can if you pull the trigger, which is what Baldwin did, after he aimed a loaded gun at an innocent woman.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Where the hell are you "concealing it" in your bed?

never mind. I don't need to know

Have a 3 year old explain to what ‘or’ means.

 

[JGalt]

Fine. Now tell me that a half inch drop CAN'T fire a round off.

And oh yea...again. Half cock is NOT a safety

No, it's not. The original Colt design has several notches in the hammer. Here's a 1973 Colt Single Action Buntline Scout I have. It is a closer representative of the original 1873 design...

When the hammer is down, it makes contact with the firing pin. A sharp bump on the hammer could cause it to fire.

The first notch is a safety notch. The hammer doesn't make contact with the firing pin, and the cylinder won't turn.

The second notch allows the cylinder to turn for loading.

The last notch is full cock. At any of these positions, if the trigger is pulled and the hammer released, the gun will fired. Which means that Baldwin is lying. He did pull the trigger.

 

[Flash]

Maybe you just haven't been keepin' up, but Baldwin hasn't even been charged. Any discussion about jurors is, at best, ridiculously premature.

Personally, I don't think he gets charged at all...

To me it is obviously negligent homicide by Baldwin as the shooter and the other people that handled the firearm. However, he is Hollywood royalty and probably won't be charged with anything.

The real trial will be in the lawsuits.

 

[Flash]

I posted a pic above of dummy rounds. How can you tell with those?

By the way they feel. They could be plastic. They could be rounds with no powder in them or no primers. They could be marked as dummy on the head stamp.

Like I said twice before every dummy round I have ever seen in my life has been distinguishable some way or another from a live round.

I do reloading and I have some dummy rounds that I use to check out magazine function and bolt extraction and other things. Real brass and real projectile but no powder and no primer. Instantly recognizable as a dummy round.