Zone1 At What Point Is One's Destiny Hell

[crossbody]

2 Thessalonians 2

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[crossbody]

How long does not get to "believe not" before God gives them a delusion so they believe a lie?

How long does one get to have pleasure in unrighteousness before God is done with them... before God cancels them out of heaven by giving them a mental delusion so they believe a lie?

Is their delusion permanent?

 

[MarathonMike]

Why does Judaism differ so completely from Christianity on this subject?

 

[crossbody]

Why does Judaism differ so completely from Christianity on this subject?

I'm not sure. I've never studied Judaism. I do know that the Bible says the eyes of the Jewish Israelites are blind. They are blind to the New Testament and salvation in Christ Jesus. As Jesus spoke more about hell than anything else in the Holy Bible.

In time they will see, and they will know and believe and we Gentiles do.

 

[Meriweather]

Paul was writing about what was going on in his own time. He was actually advising people to calm down. People thought the second coming was just around the corner, which meant the devil incarnate--the antithesis of Christ was upon them as well.

 

[MarathonMike]

I'm not sure. I've never studied Judaism. I do know that the Bible says the eyes of the Jewish Israelites are blind. They are blind to the New Testament and salvation in Christ Jesus. As Jesus spoke more about hell than anything else in the Holy Bible.

In time they will see, and they will know and believe and we Gentiles do.

So Jewish people all go to Hell?

 

[crossbody]

Paul was writing about what was going on in his own time. He was actually advising people to calm down. People thought the second coming was just around the corner, which meant the devil incarnate--the antithesis of Christ was upon them as well.

Actually death is just around the corner for some people. Their journey to heaven or hell is coming fast. Hopefully they did not get God's 2 Thessalonians warning. Hopefully they did not reject the love of the truth of Jesus Christ as Savior.

 

[Manonthestreet]

So Jewish people all go to Hell?

Of course not.

 

[MarathonMike]

Of course not.

If Jewish people don't accept Jesus Chrsit as their Savior, isn't that a deal breaker?

 

[Meriweather]

Actually death is just around the corner for some people. Their journey to heaven or hell is coming fast. Hopefully they did not get God's 2 Thessalonians warning. Hopefully they did not reject the love of the truth of Jesus Christ as Savior.

Can the love of God be underestimated? He redeemed all the world, so how likely is it he wants to eschew millions rather than gather the lost to himself? Those who embrace Jesus as the Son of God--the Word of God--receive in this life the blessings and grace on the most difficult part of our journey. I wonder how many--upon entering heaven--muse, "My life could have been so much easier, so much better had I followed Jesus--or followed him more closely." God loves us.

 

[Meriweather]

If Jewish people don't accept Jesus Chrsit as their Savior, isn't that a deal breaker?

Jesus mentioned that the healthy have no need of a physician when he was criticized for talking and eating with sinners. Jesus is the Word of God. Is any concern needed for all the Jews who have been already intently following the word of God? Their Covenant with God is an everlasting Covenant.

 

[buttercup]

If Jewish people don't accept Jesus Chrsit as their Savior, isn't that a deal breaker?

There are actually a lot of Jewish people who have come to faith in Jesus / Yeshua. Messianic Jews.

But also, there's a scripture that says that in the last days, God will pour His Spirit upon the House of David and Jerusalem, and they will see the truth.

 

[MarathonMike]

There are actually a lot of Jewish people who have come to faith in Jesus / Yeshua. Messianic Jews.

But also, there's a scripture that says that in the last days, God will pour His Spirit upon the House of David and Jerusalem, and they will see the truth.

At the end of days yes, but that doesn't answer the question for those Jewish people who have in the past and currently do not accept Jesus Christ as their savior. It would seem their fate is the same as an Atheist in terms of eternal Hell. I just ask questions, I have no intent of offending Christians.

 

[ding]

How long does not get to "believe not" before God gives them a delusion so they believe a lie?

How long does one get to have pleasure in unrighteousness before God is done with them... before God cancels them out of heaven by giving them a mental delusion so they believe a lie?

Is their delusion permanent?

I think all this is saying is that people who behave without virtue - like many of the posters here do - they will believe they are the virtuous ones. That’s the lie they will believe.

 

[The Irish Ram]

At the end of days yes, but that doesn't answer the question for those Jewish people who have in the past and currently do not accept Jesus Christ as their savior. It would seem their fate is the same as an Atheist in terms of eternal Hell. I just ask questions, I have no intent of offending Christians.

That is a good question. The same could be asked about the Gentiles prior to and during Christ's time here.
Not all Jews were under the Law for one thing. God gave the Law to a specific group of Jacob's descendants who couldn't recognize sin even when they were committing it. Paul said they were given the Law so that sin appeared sinful.
Prior to that, God wrote His laws on men's hearts and they became a law unto themselves. For instance:
…For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness

For those Jews that were under the Law, once a year, a Jewish Rabbi went into the presence of God, in the Holy of Holies, in the Temple and God granted the Jews under the Law forgiveness of their sins for the year.

Then Christ fulfilled the Law for them. And grafted the Gentiles in. He made the two groups one. He has the right to intercede for and forgive them both:
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross...

 

[crossbody]

I think all this is saying is that people who behave without virtue - like many of the posters here do - they will believe they are the virtuous ones. That’s the lie they will believe.

Could it be that those failing to forgive someone are behaving without virtue? However God does gives them a command (a window) to repent, seven times seventy-seven. On the other hand...

The scripture in question does not offer one any repentance for failing to receive the truth of God through Christ Jesus that they might be saved. God ends up sending them a strong delusion so that they believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Is their delusion from God permanent?

 

[crossbody]

At the end of days yes, but that doesn't answer the question for those Jewish people who have in the past and currently do not accept Jesus Christ as their savior. It would seem their fate is the same as an Atheist in terms of eternal Hell. I just ask questions, I have no intent of offending Christians.

This is really not a "Jewish People" specific thread

This thread is about 2 Thessalonians 2 verses 10-12

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is more of a thread about hell and damnation based on what God is saying.

 

[crossbody]

Can the love of God be underestimated? He redeemed all the world, so how likely is it he wants to eschew millions rather than gather the lost to himself? Those who embrace Jesus as the Son of God--the Word of God--receive in this life the blessings and grace on the most difficult part of our journey. I wonder how many--upon entering heaven--muse, "My life could have been so much easier, so much better had I followed Jesus--or followed him more closely." God loves us.

To me the love of God is tied in a knot to obedience and consequences. It is tied into that knot because God has tied our love to him to obedience and consequences.

Jesus came in doing the exact same thing saying...
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. -John 15:10

Love is the essence of 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 as well. God says they would not receive the love of the truth that they might be saved. Then God states their judgment in verses 11 and 12. With God our love back to him is based on obedience and consequences. God is not eschewing anyone. God gave everyone the chance to believe, to get saved, to accept Jesus, etc... as well as each one's appointed time to do so. The people "eschewed" God and His love of the truth. God follows that up with their consequences.

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

People are quick to say, "God loves us" but God says, I love them that love me... We show forth our love to God through our obedience to God. From Abraham, to all of the prophets, to Mary the mother of Jesus, to the disciples, etc... they all had to show forth their love to God by obeying God.

Proverbs 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

 

[crossbody]

Jewish People
Let me address it since it keeps coming up

God says they are blind. Most of them are not able to REJECT the love of the truth right now.

However the Gentiles can see clearly. The Gentiles understand full well all about the the Holy Bible Word of God, Jesus Christ, and His shed blood as an atonement for sins. They understand full well, "What must I do to be saved?" Yet still they reject the love of the truth that they might be saved.

There are many things associated with the Jews at this point that remain a mystery. There was a famine in the land and Joseph's brethren were saved from the famine; not all were saved but they were. I'll redirect it back to 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

Peep this... Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. They fail to receive the truth, so consequences... "blindness" and the last became first- Gentiles get saved first.

Gentile consequences for failing to receive the love of the truth is a "delusion" to receive a lie.

How long will theses people have this delusion from God? Its it permanent as God mentions them being damned?

 

[ninja007]

If Jewish people don't accept Jesus Chrsit as their Savior, isn't that a deal breaker?

anyone.