As a Christian, what does winning look like?

[zaangalewa]

...

Are you listening to yourself-------thousands probably more like million or millions descended on the capital unhappy with our corrupt Congress violating our election and rights-------------doesn't tell you something about how the people in america feel about our corrupt globalist leaders? Why the fuck are they still in office when the people want them gone.

Because extremists and terrorists don't define a nation nor the relations of a nation to all mankind. Which other system than democracy do you suggest for the USA - and which name do you like to give this new nation? "Trumperia", a nation made from Donald Trumps grace? With money where's written on "In Trump we trust"?

 

[GLASNOST]

"You are".

Your motto.

 

[Care4all]

Trump supporters think of the murder and attacks on the capitol,

Like this one?

Anyone can see the footage. Ashli Babbitt was a young woman at Wednesday’s protests. She had no weapon, not even a stick. There were armed police in front of her and behind her. She posed no danger to anyone. Still, a police officer, apparently black, shot and killed her.
Her name was Ashli Babbitt

She and thousands more stormed the capital building while in session causing our leaders to cower in fear for the purpose of over throwing an election. Come through my door with a mob leave in a bag. You are no different. Storm my office with a mob, leave in a bag. Implied risk make me fear for my life you put your life in danger.

All the other mob risings at blockaded or locked doors, they broke Windows for one person to crawl through, so they could unlock the doors from the inside, to let the rest of the mob in.....

Cop had to do, what he did.... wish he could have shot in the shoulder or something....but she was coming through, head first....

 

[Votto]

In the wake of the political turmoil, with many Christians despairing recent election results, what does winning look like from a Biblical perspective? ......

"Winning" from a Christian's perspective is when the real Messiah arrives ... and he's caucasian.

View attachment 441059

No, from a Christian perspective he was neither black nor white.

 

[Votto]

Mixing religion and politics creates something far more corrupt than the sum of it's parts.

Well ..... you name religion and politics but actually, the thread is about Christianity and politics so let me put in my tuppence.

What is politics? It is a handful of men and women who swindle you out of your earnings (in the form of taxes) and feed you with lies that render you terrified of the consequences of an existence without them.

What is Christianity? It is a handful of men and women who swindle you out of your earnings (in the form of "donations") and feed you with superstition that renders you terrified of the consequences of an existence without them.

So "mixing" them, you say? Yeah, it's like being extorted by two rivalry streets gangs, both making guarantees to protect you from the other.

Sadly, you are not far off from a Biblical perspective

When Christ entered the world, we see how the politics of the day was. You had the oppressive Roman world dictatorship, and the religious leaders in Judaism who colluded with them. Neither the religious leaders, nor the Roman authorities, cared much about the people. Of course, there were exceptions like Nicodemus, but by in large all either was interested in was personal wealth, power, and prestige. Then enters Jesus. His teachings and healings created a rather significant following. This following made the political powers rather nervous because they rightly assessed it threatened their own power over them, so they approached him to see what he was all about. Unfortunately for them, he lashed out out at the religious leaders harshly. In fact, they were the only ones he lashed out at accusing them of hypocrisy and calling them out as to who they really were. You then had a political crisis of sorts. You have this poor carpenters son with a huge following and won't play ball with the political elites, so they hatch a plan to murder him. Interestingly, Christ defended the Temple where people worshiped God and where the religous leaders taught by driving out money changers in the Temple with a whip. For Christ, even though many of the religious leaders were corrupt he still defended the place of God as a place where people could still worship God and focus on God, much like how I view the modern day church. And remember, there are good cats in the church, just like Nicodemus who was a secret follower of Christ.

Humans are sadly political creatures as politics enters every crevice of our lives and ruins pretty much everything. As I have always said, looking at human history, at one point man claimed to be God in order to rule over others, but when that no longer worked man claimed only to speak for God, and when that no longer worked, man claimed that there was no God, thus making himself the ultimate authority once again. But Christ had others write about him and did not seek political power. In fact, after the miracle of the bread and fish, the crowd sought to make Christ a worldly king, but he rejected this offer and left them. The disciples were dumbfounded, not understanding that God's kingdom is not of this kingdom nor can be.

But we later see the same confusion as Constantine decided to create a theocracy, with all the evils that entered as we see in any sinful worldly political regime. You then had Inquisitions, the persecution of the Jews, the Crusades, blah, blah, blah. Yea, they forsook the admonition of Christ that his kingdom cannot be of this world. But Constantine was no Christian, let alone Biblical scholar. No, Constantine still worshiped the pagan gods and later even had his wife and son murdered in order to help secure his political power. For you see, Constantine embracing Christianity was a political calculated decision. He saw how it flourished despite Christians being thrown to the lions for hundreds of years prior, so he thought he could jump on the band wagon and benefit from its seeming success. Granted, it is rumored Constantine converted to Christianity on his death bed, or at least tried to have his cake and eat it too.

But his confusion about mixing the sinful politics of men, which is nothing more than the art of division to secure power over other groups of people, still continues as you see men like Warnock with the democrat party telling people that he speaks for Jesus and was elected.

 

[zaangalewa]

"You are".

Your motto.

Nice way to say that you do not like to understand anything what others say to you and what's not compatible with the wheelmark spacing of the railway of materialistic thoughts in your brain.

But indeed it is a good motto. "You are, who you are". But sometimes we are not really what we are. So it is good always again to try to find out to be like god thought us to be. If we are like god thought us to be - then we are really who we are.

 

[zaangalewa]

In the wake of the political turmoil, with many Christians despairing recent election results, what does winning look like from a Biblical perspective? ......

"Winning" from a Christian's perspective is when the real Messiah arrives ... and he's caucasian.

View attachment 441059

No, from a Christian perspective he was neither black nor white.

Oh by the way - I saw once a picture with many human beings all over the world, which were sorted from the skin color "white" to an astonishing deep "black". This picture showed very nice that all human beings have only one color - a kind of white-beige-brown-black, I would call it "earth color".

And also interesting: The colors "red" and "yellow" have for example nothing to do with Red Indians or Asians. This were only color codes of maps. In the beginning known regions were "white" and unknown regions were "black". So Europe was white and Africa was black (but became more and more "white" = known area). The same system they used for Asia (yellow) and America (red). If they had used "blue" then no one ever had thought this had to do with the color of the skin - but blue was a very expensive color the most time of history and very rare.

 

[zaangalewa]

... But we later see the same confusion as Constantine decided to create a theocracy ...

Constantine made exactly the opposite. He introduced again the freedom of religion.

And a question: What is your personal reason for your unbelievable hate against Catholics and Jews?

 

[Votto]

... But we later see the same confusion as Constantine decided to create a theocracy ...

Constantine made exactly the opposite. He introduced again the freedom of religion.

And a question: What is your personal reason for your unbelievable hate against Catholics and Jews?

Naturally, you assume that being conservative I'm a racist and consumed with color of ones skin, hate Jews, and hate Catholics

Unbelievable, but that is what all stereotypical democrats think of those they don't see eye to eye with politically, much like a nervous reflex.

I hate none of them. As I said, Jesus was not Caucasian he was a Jew and my Lord and Savior.

As for hating Catholics, I don't. I merely point out the toxic mix of politics and religion, a time when Popes told kings what to do. During that time, there was a horrific oppression towards Jews, or towards those who believed that the universe did not revolve around the earth, or pretty much any thinking that ran contrary to the PC police. Yea, some freedom under the statist Constantine who never even converted to Christianity.

I reckon today it is preferable to get cancelled from society and lose your job for offending the PC left than it was to get burned at the stake, so maybe we are getting better at this.

 

[jackflash]

In the wake of the political turmoil, with many Christians despairing recent election results, what does winning look like from a Biblical perspective?

Keep in mind, this book records the lives of God fearing men and women over the millennia. It is a story of record of unbelievable oppression and suffering and death for those who decide to follow God, as well as some worldly success. It is like Job. There he is a rich man, then it all is taken from him, including his health, but he remains firm in his faith and his worldly success and wealth is restored.

So at what point was Job winning or losing in life, or was he always winning, always on the right path despite his sufferings?

I would just encourage Christians to keep in mind that political power does not equate success and winning to a Christian. In fact, I can't really think of any Biblical examples of political power equating a winning Christian existence. No, just the opposite is true in the Bible. Just look at the political power of David and Solomon. It eventually resulted in corruption and a horrible down fall because power corrupts.

From your first sentence I was going to say former Heavy King 'Rocky Marciano'(49-0-0 perfect record!) or professor Stephen Hawking(greatest of all human minds ever). After reading your second sentence I must opine. Job had hit his breaking point & was calling his Maker out on the carpet to dress down his Maker. Maker knowing Job's fragile condition did NOT tear into Job as job expected for a one on one fight. Instead all Job heard was a question; "Job, where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?" Being answered with a question Job was simply knocked off balance as Job had absolutely no answer to fire back with(who could have answered that question?). The rest of Makers questions were obviously made to bring Job back into the reality of the current situation.

Moses faced a similar situation(took a LOT of guts) but with Maker in a much more volatile mood(seething anger) than Maker was with Job, over sending the scouts ahead to reconnoiter the land before the tribe. Yet both Moses(humans MAY have not seen the last of Moses yet) & Job were found in Makers favor. To answer your question all I can see as reward in this life is physical death. One of my cousins(former Marine) said it more succinctly; "Life's a bitch then you die." What rewards are available would have to be in an afterlife as far as I can see. As far as political power(reward?) goes it all resides in the mind(s) of the particular power broker(s) @ the time & is generally short lived & sometimes tragic in the end, eg: King Belshazzar/writing on the wall(worst case scenario).

 

[Votto]

In the wake of the political turmoil, with many Christians despairing recent election results, what does winning look like from a Biblical perspective?

Keep in mind, this book records the lives of God fearing men and women over the millennia. It is a story of record of unbelievable oppression and suffering and death for those who decide to follow God, as well as some worldly success. It is like Job. There he is a rich man, then it all is taken from him, including his health, but he remains firm in his faith and his worldly success and wealth is restored.

So at what point was Job winning or losing in life, or was he always winning, always on the right path despite his sufferings?

I would just encourage Christians to keep in mind that political power does not equate success and winning to a Christian. In fact, I can't really think of any Biblical examples of political power equating a winning Christian existence. No, just the opposite is true in the Bible. Just look at the political power of David and Solomon. It eventually resulted in corruption and a horrible down fall because power corrupts.

From your first sentence I was going to say former Heavy King 'Rocky Marciano'(49-0-0 perfect record!) or professor Stephen Hawking(greatest of all human minds ever). After reading your second sentence I must opine. Job had hit his breaking point & was calling his Maker out on the carpet to dress down his Maker. Maker knowing Job's fragile condition did NOT tear into Job as job expected for a one on one fight. Instead all Job heard was a question; "Job, where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?" Being answered with a question Job was simply knocked off balance as Job had absolutely no answer to fire back with(who could have answered that question?). The rest of Makers questions were obviously made to bring Job back into the reality of the current situation.

Moses faced a similar situation(took a LOT of guts) but with Maker in a much more volatile mood(seething anger) than Maker was with Job, over sending the scouts ahead to reconnoiter the land before the tribe. Yet both Moses(humans MAY have not seen the last of Moses yet) & Job were found in Makers favor. To answer your question all I can see as reward in this life is physical death. One of my cousins(former Marine) said it more succinctly; "Life's a bitch then you die." What rewards are available would have to be in an afterlife as far as I can see. As far as political power(reward?) goes it all resides in the mind(s) of the particular power broker(s) @ the time & is generally short lived & sometimes tragic in the end, eg: King Belshazzar/writing on the wall(worst case scenario).

We all have a breaking point. My point was, even though Job was understandably angry, he refused to curse God like his wife implored him to do. Job just told her she was a foolish bitch, which she was, and to shut up. We are very free to argue with God and tell him what pisses us off. In fact, he wants us to do so.

 

[jackflash]

In the wake of the political turmoil, with many Christians despairing recent election results, what does winning look like from a Biblical perspective?

Keep in mind, this book records the lives of God fearing men and women over the millennia. It is a story of record of unbelievable oppression and suffering and death for those who decide to follow God, as well as some worldly success. It is like Job. There he is a rich man, then it all is taken from him, including his health, but he remains firm in his faith and his worldly success and wealth is restored.

So at what point was Job winning or losing in life, or was he always winning, always on the right path despite his sufferings?

I would just encourage Christians to keep in mind that political power does not equate success and winning to a Christian. In fact, I can't really think of any Biblical examples of political power equating a winning Christian existence. No, just the opposite is true in the Bible. Just look at the political power of David and Solomon. It eventually resulted in corruption and a horrible down fall because power corrupts.

From your first sentence I was going to say former Heavy King 'Rocky Marciano'(49-0-0 perfect record!) or professor Stephen Hawking(greatest of all human minds ever). After reading your second sentence I must opine. Job had hit his breaking point & was calling his Maker out on the carpet to dress down his Maker. Maker knowing Job's fragile condition did NOT tear into Job as job expected for a one on one fight. Instead all Job heard was a question; "Job, where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?" Being answered with a question Job was simply knocked off balance as Job had absolutely no answer to fire back with(who could have answered that question?). The rest of Makers questions were obviously made to bring Job back into the reality of the current situation.

Moses faced a similar situation(took a LOT of guts) but with Maker in a much more volatile mood(seething anger) than Maker was with Job, over sending the scouts ahead to reconnoiter the land before the tribe. Yet both Moses(humans MAY have not seen the last of Moses yet) & Job were found in Makers favor. To answer your question all I can see as reward in this life is physical death. One of my cousins(former Marine) said it more succinctly; "Life's a bitch then you die." What rewards are available would have to be in an afterlife as far as I can see. As far as political power(reward?) goes it all resides in the mind(s) of the particular power broker(s) @ the time & is generally short lived & sometimes tragic in the end, eg: King Belshazzar/writing on the wall(worst case scenario).

We all have a breaking point. My point was, even though Job was understandably angry, he refused to curse God like his wife implored him to do. Job just told her she was a foolish bitch, which she was, and to shut up. We are very free to argue with God and tell him what pisses us off. In fact, he wants us to do so.

@ votto; you are one of the gifted few that possesses the discernment to see the reality of the human situation in relationship to Maker. Maker did NOT create the human creature for total silence out of fear, rather Maker created human(s) for INTERACTION(emotional responses) with Maker to include disagreement(not understanding a situation), arguing(desire to better a situation) & pissed off(feelings hurt). Votto, you have said more in two/three short sentences than most Pastors could say in an entire hour+ long sermon. An absolute excellent reply to my post votto, EXCELLENT!!!

 

[presonorek]

In the wake of the political turmoil, with many Christians despairing recent election results, what does winning look like from a Biblical perspective?

Keep in mind, this book records the lives of God fearing men and women over the millennia. It is a story of record of unbelievable oppression and suffering and death for those who decide to follow God, as well as some worldly success. It is like Job. There he is a rich man, then it all is taken from him, including his health, but he remains firm in his faith and his worldly success and wealth is restored.

So at what point was Job winning or losing in life, or was he always winning, always on the right path despite his sufferings?

I would just encourage Christians to keep in mind that political power does not equate success and winning to a Christian. In fact, I can't really think of any Biblical examples of political power equating a winning Christian existence. No, just the opposite is true in the Bible. Just look at the political power of David and Solomon. It eventually resulted in corruption and a horrible down fall because power corrupts.

I frequently ponder why Jesus refused to accept the power to control the earth in Matthew 4. I suppose Jesus knew it would lead to destruction.

 

[presonorek]

Mixing religion and politics creates something far more corrupt than the sum of it's parts.

I do wonder what "Christian" Trump supporters think of the murder and attacks on the capitol, and the reports of more to come. Those who are in here saying we're getting what we deserve.

Don't mistake right wing Christianity for religion. It is a political movement that uses faith as a control lever. History tells us that that Christians are all too willing to kill in the name of the lord.

Trump is their Lord now. Will they kill in Trump's name?

 

[zaangalewa]

... But we later see the same confusion as Constantine decided to create a theocracy ...

Constantine made exactly the opposite. He introduced again the freedom of religion.

And a question: What is your personal reason for your unbelievable hate against Catholics and Jews?

Naturally, you assume that being conservative I'm a racist and consumed with color of ones skin, hate Jews, and hate Catholics

"Naturally" I feel your hate like a very big stone in a landscape. And you are not conservative in my eyes.

Unbelievable, but that is what all stereotypical democrats

I have absolutelly nothing to do with the political party "the democrats" of the USA - nor do I have anything to do with the political party "the republicans" of the USA - although I am on my own as well a republican and a democrat.

think of those they don't see eye to eye with politically, much like a nervous reflex.

You speak with a walrus about the life of penguins now.

I hate none of them.

Sure. Hate is by the way no emotion. Hate is the will do destroy something so this destruction will be irreversible - or with other words: Hate makes someone to a slave of evilness and death.

As I said, Jesus was not Caucasian he was a Jew and my Lord and Savior.

Jesus is a Caucasian. And to reach Bethlehem is only a little distance. No need to try to find a lost heart where it was lost - go some miles through the Caucasus and you will reach Bethlehem, where your heart lies in a manger.

As for hating Catholics, I don't.

Nice. And who is the poor guy, who believes you?

I merely point out the toxic mix of politics and religion, a time when Popes told kings what to do.

And kings - and also plebs - told popes what to do. Conflicts between kings and bishops or popes and emperors are nothing else then the way in history to find the right form of separation of state and religion. And let me say: The Commies fro example lost this separation by making atheism to their state religion. And this danger of a state religion "atheism" is also existing in the USA.

During that time, there was a horrific oppression towards Jews,

What's in this "absolutistic" form a nonsense sentence - but I don't discuss this with idiots - that's you now - , who don't have any idea, what they try to speak about in this context. I am by the way a Catholic who has also Jewish ancestors. And if you like to say something to me about this theme then be aware to use an excellent knowledge in this context - anything else is a waste of time. I'm used to check out facts. Don't try to tell me lies.

or towards those who believed that the universe did not revolve around the earth,

What a luck that you don't have prejudices. It was by the way a Catholic clerics - Nikolaus Kopernikus - who found this out. And it was also a Catholic clerics - Georges Lemaitre - who found out that the universe expands. And for Christians it is absolutelly no problem to think to turn around god as the Earth turns around the sun - or to think the universe is a place where every point is always only in the middle of the universe - as we are in the middle of god and god is in the middle of us.

or pretty much any thinking that ran contrary to the PC police.

?

Yea, some freedom under the statist

?

Constantine who never even converted to Christianity.

Exactly. Emperor Constantin was a heathen. It is said his mother Helena and/or his wife Fausta had been Christians.

I reckon today it is preferable to get cancelled from society and lose your job for offending the PC left than it was to get burned at the stake, so maybe we are getting better at this.

You are totally weird. What do you say here? That you live in fear of what?

 

[zaangalewa]

... I frequently ponder why Jesus refused to accept the power to control the earth in Matthew 4. ...

Sure, Satana.

 

[surada]

Mixing religion and politics creates something far more corrupt than the sum of it's parts.

Well ..... you name religion and politics but actually, the thread is about Christianity and politics so let me put in my tuppence.

What is politics? It is a handful of men and women who swindle you out of your earnings (in the form of taxes) and feed you with lies that render you terrified of the consequences of an existence without them.

What is Christianity? It is a handful of men and women who swindle you out of your earnings (in the form of "donations") and feed you with superstition that renders you terrified of the consequences of an existence without them.

So "mixing" them, you say? Yeah, it's like being extorted by two rivalry streets gangs, both making guarantees to protect you from the other.

Sadly, you are not far off from a Biblical perspective

When Christ entered the world, we see how the politics of the day was. You had the oppressive Roman world dictatorship, and the religious leaders in Judaism who colluded with them. Neither the religious leaders, nor the Roman authorities, cared much about the people. Of course, there were exceptions like Nicodemus, but by in large all either was interested in was personal wealth, power, and prestige. Then enters Jesus. His teachings and healings created a rather significant following. This following made the political powers rather nervous because they rightly assessed it threatened their own power over them, so they approached him to see what he was all about. Unfortunately for them, he lashed out out at the religious leaders harshly. In fact, they were the only ones he lashed out at accusing them of hypocrisy and calling them out as to who they really were. You then had a political crisis of sorts. You have this poor carpenters son with a huge following and won't play ball with the political elites, so they hatch a plan to murder him. Interestingly, Christ defended the Temple where people worshiped God and where the religous leaders taught by driving out money changers in the Temple with a whip. For Christ, even though many of the religious leaders were corrupt he still defended the place of God as a place where people could still worship God and focus on God, much like how I view the modern day church. And remember, there are good cats in the church, just like Nicodemus who was a secret follower of Christ.

Humans are sadly political creatures as politics enters every crevice of our lives and ruins pretty much everything. As I have always said, looking at human history, at one point man claimed to be God in order to rule over others, but when that no longer worked man claimed only to speak for God, and when that no longer worked, man claimed that there was no God, thus making himself the ultimate authority once again. But Christ had others write about him and did not seek political power. In fact, after the miracle of the bread and fish, the crowd sought to make Christ a worldly king, but he rejected this offer and left them. The disciples were dumbfounded, not understanding that God's kingdom is not of this kingdom nor can be.

But we later see the same confusion as Constantine decided to create a theocracy, with all the evils that entered as we see in any sinful worldly political regime. You then had Inquisitions, the persecution of the Jews, the Crusades, blah, blah, blah. Yea, they forsook the admonition of Christ that his kingdom cannot be of this world. But Constantine was no Christian, let alone Biblical scholar. No, Constantine still worshiped the pagan gods and later even had his wife and son murdered in order to help secure his political power. For you see, Constantine embracing Christianity was a political calculated decision. He saw how it flourished despite Christians being thrown to the lions for hundreds of years prior, so he thought he could jump on the band wagon and benefit from its seeming success. Granted, it is rumored Constantine converted to Christianity on his death bed, or at least tried to have his cake and eat it too.

But his confusion about mixing the sinful politics of men, which is nothing more than the art of division to secure power over other groups of people, still continues as you see men like Warnock with the democrat party telling people that he speaks for Jesus and was elected.

I don't think Jesus was important to the Romans at all.. not even a blip on their radar.. He preached in the north around Galilee for 3 years and Antipas ignored him. He was safe there.

There were lots of prophets and malcontents in Palestine... lots of in-fighting among the Jewish factions.

The accusations against Jesus came from the Jews themselves.

 

[Mac1958]

Trump is their Lord now. Will they kill in Trump's name?

They already have.

Word is, much more is on the way.

Trump's jihadis are on the move.

 

[surada]

Trump is their Lord now. Will they kill in Trump's name?

They already have.

Word is, much more is on the way.

Trump's jihadis are on the move.

Trump is out for revenge against Republicans and Democrats.

 

[zaangalewa]

...

I don't think Jesus was important to the Romans at all.. not even a blip on their radar.. He preached in the north around Galilee for 3 years and Antipas ignored him. He was safe there.

There were lots of prophets and malcontents in Palestine... lots of in-fighting among the Jewish factions.

The accusations against Jesus came from the Jews themselves.

But what the Romans did do there was important ... Varus was in this days there - and I don't know what kind of crimes he did do there in Israel. This has perhaps to do with the story of the of mass-murder of new borns, which the bible reports. The terror of the Romans was for sure a very serios problem. It is said Varus was one of the worst. Some of our ancestors had the honor to kill him together with three Roman legions, when he came to Germania some years later.