Are We Born With Morals?

[james bond]

Logic... like truth is waiting to be discovered.

Einstein didn't create E=mc^2. Einstein discovered E=mc^2.

.
which one -

are you saying math has multiple consequences as logic, not the same ... right vs wrong is not a theorem.

Which one what?

I am saying that logic and truth exist independent of man.

Logic and truth are subjective.

Not possible.

The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

You use your own messed up logic to try to prove your nonsense, meaning that it's only logical to you.
And everyone's truth is different as well.

Logic and truth are not subjective. What is logical and what is true exists independently of man's perception of logic and truth. Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered.

Your own logic is very subjective, since it never makes any sense. Everyone's own logic may different from each other. Same for truth.

You have a need to make this personal. I don't. Logic and truth exist independently of man and are discovered.

Got a link? No?

Do you?

You made the claim, so prove it, because I can't disprove something that hasn't been proven.

You made a claim too, dummy.

Spoiler: Taz's claim

Logic and truth are subjective.

You made the first claim, so go for it and prove it.

I already did prove that logic and truth are not subjective, dummy, and in the process I disproved your claim that logic and truth are subjective.

It's pot possible for logic and truth to be subjective. The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

Here's the link.

Definition of subjective | Dictionary.com

Definition of subjective from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more.

www.dictionary.com

.

Where's YOUR link?

Your link doesn't show that logic and truth are what you claimed. That's a definition of something I said. Please try again.

Hey, you found someone to argue semantics. You two should get a room.

 

[james bond]

Being gay is immoral. God said it was an abominable sin. Cheating is immoral. It's free will choice, not genetics or environment. Divorce should not be normal.

Based on:
1. God exists.
2. God has spoken to us through the Bible.
3. We have a conscience and have to trust it and not go by social consensus or social values, what Hollyweird says, nor the playboy/playgirl, or billionaire/millionaire you look up to.

 

[ding]

People are intrinsically evil. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is called, "Original Sin." The strong will dominate and exploit the weak until forced to do otherwise. You might say, that is the role of Police in our society: to pose as a threat to anyone who would harm others, in order to deter that behavior.

This is why it is imperative when looking at history and even current events, to identify and recognize kind, compassionate, moral behavior, to ascertain what motivated it. Then, exalt that factor and hope that it proliferates.

And to be political for a moment, Why is America great? Because it HAS THE POWER TO DOMINATE, and yet it never does so. Look at Iraq. We deposed an evil ruler, and COULD HAVE installed a "puppet" government to do our bidding in that part of the world. That is what the Soviet Union would have done, surely. But we simply brought about the peace and allowed the indigenous population to fuck things up on their own.

I disagree with that. Everything God created is good.

Evil is the absence of good. Evil is not extant.

So the Devil is good?

The absence of good.

 

[ding]

Logic... like truth is waiting to be discovered.

Einstein didn't create E=mc^2. Einstein discovered E=mc^2.

.
which one -

are you saying math has multiple consequences as logic, not the same ... right vs wrong is not a theorem.

Which one what?

I am saying that logic and truth exist independent of man.

Logic and truth are subjective.

Not possible.

The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

You use your own messed up logic to try to prove your nonsense, meaning that it's only logical to you.
And everyone's truth is different as well.

Logic and truth are not subjective. What is logical and what is true exists independently of man's perception of logic and truth. Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered.

Your own logic is very subjective, since it never makes any sense. Everyone's own logic may different from each other. Same for truth.

You have a need to make this personal. I don't. Logic and truth exist independently of man and are discovered.

Got a link? No?

Do you?

You made the claim, so prove it, because I can't disprove something that hasn't been proven.

You made a claim too, dummy.

Spoiler: Taz's claim

Logic and truth are subjective.

You made the first claim, so go for it and prove it.

I already did prove that logic and truth are not subjective, dummy, and in the process I disproved your claim that logic and truth are subjective.

It's pot possible for logic and truth to be subjective. The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

Here's the link.

Definition of subjective | Dictionary.com

Definition of subjective from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more.

www.dictionary.com

.

Where's YOUR link?

Your link doesn't show that logic and truth are what you claimed. That's a definition of something I said. Please try again.

I'm sure everyone but you got it.

 

[Unkotare]

....
Morals are very personal and individualistic. ....

By definition, they are not.

 

[Taz]

People are intrinsically evil. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is called, "Original Sin." The strong will dominate and exploit the weak until forced to do otherwise. You might say, that is the role of Police in our society: to pose as a threat to anyone who would harm others, in order to deter that behavior.

This is why it is imperative when looking at history and even current events, to identify and recognize kind, compassionate, moral behavior, to ascertain what motivated it. Then, exalt that factor and hope that it proliferates.

And to be political for a moment, Why is America great? Because it HAS THE POWER TO DOMINATE, and yet it never does so. Look at Iraq. We deposed an evil ruler, and COULD HAVE installed a "puppet" government to do our bidding in that part of the world. That is what the Soviet Union would have done, surely. But we simply brought about the peace and allowed the indigenous population to fuck things up on their own.

I disagree with that. Everything God created is good.

Evil is the absence of good. Evil is not extant.

So the Devil is good?

The absence of good.

Is he a real person?

 

[Taz]

Logic... like truth is waiting to be discovered.

Einstein didn't create E=mc^2. Einstein discovered E=mc^2.

.
which one -

are you saying math has multiple consequences as logic, not the same ... right vs wrong is not a theorem.

Which one what?

I am saying that logic and truth exist independent of man.

Logic and truth are subjective.

Not possible.

The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

You use your own messed up logic to try to prove your nonsense, meaning that it's only logical to you.
And everyone's truth is different as well.

Logic and truth are not subjective. What is logical and what is true exists independently of man's perception of logic and truth. Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered.

Your own logic is very subjective, since it never makes any sense. Everyone's own logic may different from each other. Same for truth.

You have a need to make this personal. I don't. Logic and truth exist independently of man and are discovered.

Got a link? No?

Do you?

You made the claim, so prove it, because I can't disprove something that hasn't been proven.

You made a claim too, dummy.

Spoiler: Taz's claim

Logic and truth are subjective.

You made the first claim, so go for it and prove it.

I already did prove that logic and truth are not subjective, dummy, and in the process I disproved your claim that logic and truth are subjective.

It's pot possible for logic and truth to be subjective. The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

Here's the link.

Definition of subjective | Dictionary.com

Definition of subjective from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more.

www.dictionary.com

.

Where's YOUR link?

Your link doesn't show that logic and truth are what you claimed. That's a definition of something I said. Please try again.

I'm sure everyone but you got it.

How does the definition of subjective prove "Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered."?

 

[ding]

People are intrinsically evil. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is called, "Original Sin." The strong will dominate and exploit the weak until forced to do otherwise. You might say, that is the role of Police in our society: to pose as a threat to anyone who would harm others, in order to deter that behavior.

This is why it is imperative when looking at history and even current events, to identify and recognize kind, compassionate, moral behavior, to ascertain what motivated it. Then, exalt that factor and hope that it proliferates.

And to be political for a moment, Why is America great? Because it HAS THE POWER TO DOMINATE, and yet it never does so. Look at Iraq. We deposed an evil ruler, and COULD HAVE installed a "puppet" government to do our bidding in that part of the world. That is what the Soviet Union would have done, surely. But we simply brought about the peace and allowed the indigenous population to fuck things up on their own.

I disagree with that. Everything God created is good.

Evil is the absence of good. Evil is not extant.

So the Devil is good?

The absence of good.

Is he a real person?

A person? Doubtful. A fallen angel? Don't know. Do you?

 

[Taz]

People are intrinsically evil. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is called, "Original Sin." The strong will dominate and exploit the weak until forced to do otherwise. You might say, that is the role of Police in our society: to pose as a threat to anyone who would harm others, in order to deter that behavior.

This is why it is imperative when looking at history and even current events, to identify and recognize kind, compassionate, moral behavior, to ascertain what motivated it. Then, exalt that factor and hope that it proliferates.

And to be political for a moment, Why is America great? Because it HAS THE POWER TO DOMINATE, and yet it never does so. Look at Iraq. We deposed an evil ruler, and COULD HAVE installed a "puppet" government to do our bidding in that part of the world. That is what the Soviet Union would have done, surely. But we simply brought about the peace and allowed the indigenous population to fuck things up on their own.

I disagree with that. Everything God created is good.

Evil is the absence of good. Evil is not extant.

So the Devil is good?

The absence of good.

Is he a real person?

A person? Doubtful. A fallen angel? Don't know. Do you?

So you don't know. Ok.

 

[ding]

Logic... like truth is waiting to be discovered.

Einstein didn't create E=mc^2. Einstein discovered E=mc^2.

.
which one -

are you saying math has multiple consequences as logic, not the same ... right vs wrong is not a theorem.

Which one what?

I am saying that logic and truth exist independent of man.

Logic and truth are subjective.

Not possible.

The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

You use your own messed up logic to try to prove your nonsense, meaning that it's only logical to you.
And everyone's truth is different as well.

Logic and truth are not subjective. What is logical and what is true exists independently of man's perception of logic and truth. Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered.

Your own logic is very subjective, since it never makes any sense. Everyone's own logic may different from each other. Same for truth.

You have a need to make this personal. I don't. Logic and truth exist independently of man and are discovered.

Got a link? No?

Do you?

You made the claim, so prove it, because I can't disprove something that hasn't been proven.

You made a claim too, dummy.

Spoiler: Taz's claim

Logic and truth are subjective.

You made the first claim, so go for it and prove it.

I already did prove that logic and truth are not subjective, dummy, and in the process I disproved your claim that logic and truth are subjective.

It's pot possible for logic and truth to be subjective. The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

Here's the link.

Definition of subjective | Dictionary.com

Definition of subjective from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more.

www.dictionary.com

.

Where's YOUR link?

Your link doesn't show that logic and truth are what you claimed. That's a definition of something I said. Please try again.

I'm sure everyone but you got it.

How does the definition of subjective prove "Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered."?

Because logic and truth cannot be subjective. Logic and truth don't have a bias or a preference. They just are. Waiting to be discovered like E=mc^2 which is also a phenomenon that just is.

 

[Unkotare]

......why are females '''''better''' 'at '''choosing''' not to kill?.....

They aren't. They have fewer means and opportunities. They are smarter than men, and give more thought to consequences.

 

[ding]

People are intrinsically evil. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is called, "Original Sin." The strong will dominate and exploit the weak until forced to do otherwise. You might say, that is the role of Police in our society: to pose as a threat to anyone who would harm others, in order to deter that behavior.

This is why it is imperative when looking at history and even current events, to identify and recognize kind, compassionate, moral behavior, to ascertain what motivated it. Then, exalt that factor and hope that it proliferates.

And to be political for a moment, Why is America great? Because it HAS THE POWER TO DOMINATE, and yet it never does so. Look at Iraq. We deposed an evil ruler, and COULD HAVE installed a "puppet" government to do our bidding in that part of the world. That is what the Soviet Union would have done, surely. But we simply brought about the peace and allowed the indigenous population to fuck things up on their own.

I disagree with that. Everything God created is good.

Evil is the absence of good. Evil is not extant.

So the Devil is good?

The absence of good.

Is he a real person?

A person? Doubtful. A fallen angel? Don't know. Do you?

So you don't know. Ok.

That is what I said. Do you know?

I know the two positions on Satan. I'm not sure which it is.

 

[Taz]

Logic... like truth is waiting to be discovered.

Einstein didn't create E=mc^2. Einstein discovered E=mc^2.

.
which one -

are you saying math has multiple consequences as logic, not the same ... right vs wrong is not a theorem.

Which one what?

I am saying that logic and truth exist independent of man.

Logic and truth are subjective.

Not possible.

The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

You use your own messed up logic to try to prove your nonsense, meaning that it's only logical to you.
And everyone's truth is different as well.

Logic and truth are not subjective. What is logical and what is true exists independently of man's perception of logic and truth. Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered.

Your own logic is very subjective, since it never makes any sense. Everyone's own logic may different from each other. Same for truth.

You have a need to make this personal. I don't. Logic and truth exist independently of man and are discovered.

Got a link? No?

Do you?

You made the claim, so prove it, because I can't disprove something that hasn't been proven.

You made a claim too, dummy.

Spoiler: Taz's claim

Logic and truth are subjective.

You made the first claim, so go for it and prove it.

I already did prove that logic and truth are not subjective, dummy, and in the process I disproved your claim that logic and truth are subjective.

It's pot possible for logic and truth to be subjective. The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

Here's the link.

Definition of subjective | Dictionary.com

Definition of subjective from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more.

www.dictionary.com

.

Where's YOUR link?

Your link doesn't show that logic and truth are what you claimed. That's a definition of something I said. Please try again.

I'm sure everyone but you got it.

How does the definition of subjective prove "Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered."?

Because logic and truth cannot be subjective. Logic and truth don't have a bias or a preference. They just are. Waiting to be discovered like E=mc^2 which is also a phenomenon that just is.

So if one person says "that's logical" and the other says "no it's not", who wins?

 

[Anathema]

Or do we learn them? I think we learn them because Humans are capable of great goodness as well as great evil when unchecked by those around them. Society's agreed upon morality (understood rules of decency) is the definition of morality. Today, the largest 'agreed upon' definition of morality is the MSM and Hollywood.

I would suggest it’s both Nature AND Nurture. It has been my experience, and the experience of many I know who feel that we had instinctive urges even in our youth pointing us towards knowledge of Right and Wrong. These instincts and urges were drawn out, honed, polished and hardened by our parents, families and the society around us.

 

[ding]

Logic... like truth is waiting to be discovered.

Einstein didn't create E=mc^2. Einstein discovered E=mc^2.

.
which one -

are you saying math has multiple consequences as logic, not the same ... right vs wrong is not a theorem.

Which one what?

I am saying that logic and truth exist independent of man.

Logic and truth are subjective.

Not possible.

The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

You use your own messed up logic to try to prove your nonsense, meaning that it's only logical to you.
And everyone's truth is different as well.

Logic and truth are not subjective. What is logical and what is true exists independently of man's perception of logic and truth. Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered.

Your own logic is very subjective, since it never makes any sense. Everyone's own logic may different from each other. Same for truth.

You have a need to make this personal. I don't. Logic and truth exist independently of man and are discovered.

Got a link? No?

Do you?

You made the claim, so prove it, because I can't disprove something that hasn't been proven.

You made a claim too, dummy.

Spoiler: Taz's claim

Logic and truth are subjective.

You made the first claim, so go for it and prove it.

I already did prove that logic and truth are not subjective, dummy, and in the process I disproved your claim that logic and truth are subjective.

It's pot possible for logic and truth to be subjective. The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

Here's the link.

Definition of subjective | Dictionary.com

Definition of subjective from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more.

www.dictionary.com

.

Where's YOUR link?

Your link doesn't show that logic and truth are what you claimed. That's a definition of something I said. Please try again.

I'm sure everyone but you got it.

How does the definition of subjective prove "Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered."?

Because logic and truth cannot be subjective. Logic and truth don't have a bias or a preference. They just are. Waiting to be discovered like E=mc^2 which is also a phenomenon that just is.

So if one person says "that's logical" and the other says "no it's not", who wins?

The one who doesn't experience the predictable surprise.

 

[ding]

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. Standards exists for logical reasons. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed independent of man and based upon logic.

 

[Taz]

Logic... like truth is waiting to be discovered.

Einstein didn't create E=mc^2. Einstein discovered E=mc^2.

.
which one -

are you saying math has multiple consequences as logic, not the same ... right vs wrong is not a theorem.

Which one what?

I am saying that logic and truth exist independent of man.

Logic and truth are subjective.

Not possible.

The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

You use your own messed up logic to try to prove your nonsense, meaning that it's only logical to you.
And everyone's truth is different as well.

Logic and truth are not subjective. What is logical and what is true exists independently of man's perception of logic and truth. Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered.

Your own logic is very subjective, since it never makes any sense. Everyone's own logic may different from each other. Same for truth.

You have a need to make this personal. I don't. Logic and truth exist independently of man and are discovered.

Got a link? No?

Do you?

You made the claim, so prove it, because I can't disprove something that hasn't been proven.

You made a claim too, dummy.

Spoiler: Taz's claim

Logic and truth are subjective.

You made the first claim, so go for it and prove it.

I already did prove that logic and truth are not subjective, dummy, and in the process I disproved your claim that logic and truth are subjective.

It's pot possible for logic and truth to be subjective. The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

Here's the link.

Definition of subjective | Dictionary.com

Definition of subjective from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more.

www.dictionary.com

.

Where's YOUR link?

Your link doesn't show that logic and truth are what you claimed. That's a definition of something I said. Please try again.

I'm sure everyone but you got it.

How does the definition of subjective prove "Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered."?

Because logic and truth cannot be subjective. Logic and truth don't have a bias or a preference. They just are. Waiting to be discovered like E=mc^2 which is also a phenomenon that just is.

So if one person says "that's logical" and the other says "no it's not", who wins?

The one who doesn't experience the predictable surprise.

Well, if you're not even going to TRY to make sense...

 

[ding]

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work.

 

[Taz]

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. Standards exists for logical reasons. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed independent of man and based upon logic.

So gay people are deviating from your standard. And?

 

[ding]

Logic... like truth is waiting to be discovered.

Einstein didn't create E=mc^2. Einstein discovered E=mc^2.

.
which one -

are you saying math has multiple consequences as logic, not the same ... right vs wrong is not a theorem.

Which one what?

I am saying that logic and truth exist independent of man.

Logic and truth are subjective.

Not possible.

The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

You use your own messed up logic to try to prove your nonsense, meaning that it's only logical to you.
And everyone's truth is different as well.

Logic and truth are not subjective. What is logical and what is true exists independently of man's perception of logic and truth. Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered.

Your own logic is very subjective, since it never makes any sense. Everyone's own logic may different from each other. Same for truth.

You have a need to make this personal. I don't. Logic and truth exist independently of man and are discovered.

Got a link? No?

Do you?

You made the claim, so prove it, because I can't disprove something that hasn't been proven.

You made a claim too, dummy.

Spoiler: Taz's claim

Logic and truth are subjective.

You made the first claim, so go for it and prove it.

I already did prove that logic and truth are not subjective, dummy, and in the process I disproved your claim that logic and truth are subjective.

It's pot possible for logic and truth to be subjective. The definition of subjective is based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Logic and truth does not have personal feelings, tastes or opinions. Logic and truth just are. What you are trying to say is that man's perception of logic and truth is subjective. Man can have personal feelings, tastes and opinions. Logic and truth cannot.

Here's the link.

Definition of subjective | Dictionary.com

Definition of subjective from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more.

www.dictionary.com

.

Where's YOUR link?

Your link doesn't show that logic and truth are what you claimed. That's a definition of something I said. Please try again.

I'm sure everyone but you got it.

How does the definition of subjective prove "Logic and truth, like all natural phenomenon are discovered."?

Because logic and truth cannot be subjective. Logic and truth don't have a bias or a preference. They just are. Waiting to be discovered like E=mc^2 which is also a phenomenon that just is.

So if one person says "that's logical" and the other says "no it's not", who wins?

The one who doesn't experience the predictable surprise.

Well, if you're not even going to TRY to make sense...

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. Standards exists for logical reasons. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed independent of man and based upon logic.

So if you don't follow the highest standard, you can expect a predictable surprise to occur which is how you know which guy was right. Now do you understand?