America Founded as a Christian Nation

[ding]

That’s wishful thinking. At best they have infected America.

Post 23929312 reply to 23877924

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

 

[ding]

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

 

[ding]

So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?

No. It's still a Christian nation. Some of us seem to have lost our way though. Not to worry though. It's only a matter of time before a self correction.

It's cyclical.

 

[ding]

 

[NotfooledbyW]

23929706 para 18

Claiming to be a Christian in a poll is not the same as giving of yourself, volunteering, being a good citizen, and a good steward of the Word of God.

The following links showing four times that Mr Rockwell states that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian. Plus a fifth link stating that the Ten Commandments ... Bible laws that all Christians profess are the Word of God.”

Jefferson was a Christian - just not a mainstream Christian

Just because Jefferson did not agree with the mainstream doesn't prove a damn thing.

I made a case for Jefferson being a Christian.

If you had read this thread, I proved, unequivocally, that Jefferson was a Christian.

The Ten Commandments are a common set of Bible laws that all Christians profess are the Word of God and have as much weight in society as any man made law.

Jefferson did not claim to be a Christian, But Mr Rockwell says he was. The conflict Mr Rockwell has with himself is that he wants us to know urgency for Christendom to defend the world from the evils of secular humanism, Christians must be good citizens for sure but they must also be a good steward of the Word of God.

I submit that Jefferson was not a good steward of the Word of God. He did not believe it was, and he took a razor to it to rid it of the that political dung that he thought organized religion put in it.

So, should not Jefferson of today be on your Christian shit list for aiding and abetting the evil human secularists in taking control of the nation from the Christians Word of God believing model that today you think is lacking.

I question why you can have Jefferson both ways. The right kind of Christian in his day but the wrong kind of Christian today.

 

[ding]

Doesn’t matter if Jefferson was a Christian.

He had Christian values and principles.

Everyone who is raised in America has Christian values and principles.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

23931584 reply to 23931186

Doesn’t matter if Jefferson was a Christian.

He had Christian values and principles.

Everyone who is raised in America has Christian values and principles.

It matters when this matter is addressed to Mr. Rockwell. Because he writes that America is no longer a Christian Nation. You saw the posts, he says it’s because so many so called Christians are not really genuine well behaved enough Christians and therefore not Stewards of the Word of God.

Jefferson was an OK steward of the Word of God when Rockwell counts him as a Christian with 98% of all four million of the white ones around the 1790s.

But now with 65% of a quarter billion Americans professing to be Christians, Mr. Rockwell can’t find enough good ones to defeat Satan and his Secular Humanist Army.

Secular Humanists today might want to cut up the Bible as Jefferson so wisely did 250 years ago.

I guess that’s Ok with you, to you they are still Christians. But it is apparently not ok with your ‘false declaration that America was founded as a Christian Nation’ thread partner.

You should take that up with your buddy.

 

[ding]

23931584 reply to 23931186

Doesn’t matter if Jefferson was a Christian.

He had Christian values and principles.

Everyone who is raised in America has Christian values and principles.

It matters when this matter is addressed to Mr. Rockwell. Because he writes that America is no longer a Christian Nation. You saw the posts, he says it’s because so many so called Christians are not really genuine well behaved enough Christians and therefore not Stewards of the Word of God.

Jefferson was an OK steward of the Word of God when Rockwell counts him as a Christian with 98% of all four million of the white ones around the 1790s.

But now with 65% of a quarter billion Americans professing to be Christians, Mr. Rockwell can’t find enough good ones to defeat Satan and his Secular Humanist Army.

Secular Humanists today might want to cut up the Bible as Jefferson so wisely did 250 years ago.

I guess that’s Ok with you, to you they are still Christians. But it is apparently not ok with your ‘false declaration that America was founded as a Christian Nation’ thread partner.

You should take that up with your buddy.

It’s cyclical.

History is littered with people who pay lip service. The thing about Christianity is that it’s a journey. It’s not necessarily a straight line. At any point we can be moving towards God, we can be moving away from God or we can be static in our progression. And just because someone is moving towards God that doesn’t mean he will always be moving towards God.

I understand that some people believe we are no longer a nation that follows Christian values but it’s a little more complicated than that.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?

If you aren't educated enough to read the thread, then maybe you'd better skip it.

America has been under attack since its inception. The financial part started as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution. The social, political, and religious crises took much longer.

In 1962, the de facto / unconstitutional / illegal / immoral social and religious forces began the defeat of the posterity of the framers. Today, there are at least two governments operating in the United States. There is the de facto / illegal government that is in charge and the de jure / legal / constitutional Republic guaranteed under the Constitution.

Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 39, and 40. That sums up the OP in 6 easy posts. The rest is basically two of us giving a guy with commie avatar the beat down of a lifetime.

 

[Bezukhov]

So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?

If you aren't educated enough to read the thread, then maybe you'd better skip it.

America has been under attack since its inception. The financial part started as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution. The social, political, and religious crises took much longer.

In 1962, the de facto / unconstitutional / illegal / immoral social and religious forces began the defeat of the posterity of the framers. Today, there are at least two governments operating in the United States. There is the de facto / illegal government that is in charge and the de jure / legal / constitutional Republic guaranteed under the Constitution.

Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 39, and 40. That sums up the OP in 6 easy posts. The rest is basically two of us giving a guy with commie avatar the beat down of a lifetime.

What I really want to know is what do you want from us non Christians? Are we to have a daily ritual where we bow down and kiss your Christian ass?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

23929706 para 18

Claiming to be a Christian in a poll is not the same as giving of yourself, volunteering, being a good citizen, and a good steward of the Word of God.

The following links showing four times that Mr Rockwell states that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian. Plus a fifth link stating that the Ten Commandments ... Bible laws that all Christians profess are the Word of God.”

Jefferson was a Christian - just not a mainstream Christian

Just because Jefferson did not agree with the mainstream doesn't prove a damn thing.

I made a case for Jefferson being a Christian.

If you had read this thread, I proved, unequivocally, that Jefferson was a Christian.

The Ten Commandments are a common set of Bible laws that all Christians profess are the Word of God and have as much weight in society as any man made law.

Jefferson did not claim to be a Christian, But Mr Rockwell says he was. The conflict Mr Rockwell has with himself is that he wants us to know urgency for Christendom to defend the world from the evils of secular humanism, Christians must be good citizens for sure but they must also be a good steward of the Word of God.

I submit that Jefferson was not a good steward of the Word of God. He did not believe it was, and he took a razor to it to rid it of the that political dung that he thought organized religion put in it.

So, should not Jefferson of today be on your Christian shit list for aiding and abetting the evil human secularists in taking control of the nation from the Christians Word of God believing model that today you think is lacking.

I question why you can have Jefferson both ways. The right kind of Christian in his day but the wrong kind of Christian today.

I do not read nor respond to multi quotes, but this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:

FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

Biographers are quick to point that Jefferson's religious views were always changing, evolving, and were ambiguous. It seems silly to be in a debate over that when there are 55 other men that signed the Declaration of Independence.

I live in Gwinnett County in Georgia. Surrounding me are Hall and Walton counties. Each is named after a signer of the Declaration of Independence

Lyman Hall was a pastor

Button Gwinnett was an Episcopalian

Button Gwinnett, Signer of Declaration of Independence

George Walton, an Episcopalian

Religious Convictions of America's Founders: George Walton

That was the entire Georgia delegation

John Morton - Morton was an active member of the Anglican Church in Chester County in Pennsylvania.

John Morton (American politician) - Wikipedia

Benjamin Rush of Pennsylvania - Rush fought for temperance,[11]:379–380 and both public and Sunday schools. He helped found the Bible Society at Philadelphia (now known as the Pennsylvania Bible Society),[63] and promoted the American Sunday School Union

Benjamin Rush - Wikipedia

Arthur Middleton - was an Episcopalian

...While listing the ones I KNEW were Christians, I found this:

First Amendment Religion Clauses: Signers of the Declaration of Independence - Christian Background

So, we're done with this part of the argument. Only an idiot would believe than many Christians would support a document that did not acknowledge a Christian God that oversees the lives of mortal men. They were all committed to religious Liberty.

 

[Gdjjr]

They were all committed to religious Liberty.

Which is "a" reason many came here to begin with- state sanctioned church- I like your word Churchians to describe religious orders- it fits- Full disclosure: I'm not a believer either.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?

If you aren't educated enough to read the thread, then maybe you'd better skip it.

America has been under attack since its inception. The financial part started as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution. The social, political, and religious crises took much longer.

In 1962, the de facto / unconstitutional / illegal / immoral social and religious forces began the defeat of the posterity of the framers. Today, there are at least two governments operating in the United States. There is the de facto / illegal government that is in charge and the de jure / legal / constitutional Republic guaranteed under the Constitution.

Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 39, and 40. That sums up the OP in 6 easy posts. The rest is basically two of us giving a guy with commie avatar the beat down of a lifetime.

What I really want to know is what do you want from us non Christians? Are we to have a daily ritual where we bow down and kiss your Christian ass?

I expect nothing from anyone except mutual respect. The reason Americans can own private property, have the remaining vestiges of our high level of decency by guaranteeing unalienable Rights, and being of service to mankind is due to our Christian culture.

I'm tired of kissing the asses of non-Christians, atheists, secularists, humanists, etc. So, I will proclaim Liberty.

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me;
because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;
he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
and the day of vengeance of our God;
to comfort all that mourn;
3 to appoint unto them that mourn in Zion,
to give unto them beauty for ashes,
the oil of joy for mourning,
the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
that they might be called trees of righteousness,
the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

Isaiah 61:1-3

 

[Porter Rockwell]

They were all committed to religious Liberty.

Which is "a" reason many came here to begin with- state sanctioned church- I like your word Churchians to describe religious orders- it fits- Full disclosure: I'm not a believer either.

I am a Christian. I accept the Bible as the inerrant Word of God. But, I do not force feed my religion down anyone's throats. Our customs and culture is NOT threatening to anyone, so the things that miscreants scream about are not necessarily any attempt to establish a state religion.

By respecting religious Liberty, Congress is not passing any law. When Congress put the federal government in charge of education and hog tied Christians - even silencing them because some dim wit wants MORE Rights than his fellow American, Congress DID establish a Religion.

A good start here would be to get the government out of education and turn it over to the states.

 

[ding]

So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?

If you aren't educated enough to read the thread, then maybe you'd better skip it.

America has been under attack since its inception. The financial part started as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution. The social, political, and religious crises took much longer.

In 1962, the de facto / unconstitutional / illegal / immoral social and religious forces began the defeat of the posterity of the framers. Today, there are at least two governments operating in the United States. There is the de facto / illegal government that is in charge and the de jure / legal / constitutional Republic guaranteed under the Constitution.

Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 39, and 40. That sums up the OP in 6 easy posts. The rest is basically two of us giving a guy with commie avatar the beat down of a lifetime.

What I really want to know is what do you want from us non Christians? Are we to have a daily ritual where we bow down and kiss your Christian ass?

I can’t speak for him but it depends if your a militant atheist attempting to subordinate religion in the time honored Marxist tradition.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?

If you aren't educated enough to read the thread, then maybe you'd better skip it.

America has been under attack since its inception. The financial part started as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution. The social, political, and religious crises took much longer.

In 1962, the de facto / unconstitutional / illegal / immoral social and religious forces began the defeat of the posterity of the framers. Today, there are at least two governments operating in the United States. There is the de facto / illegal government that is in charge and the de jure / legal / constitutional Republic guaranteed under the Constitution.

Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 39, and 40. That sums up the OP in 6 easy posts. The rest is basically two of us giving a guy with commie avatar the beat down of a lifetime.

What I really want to know is what do you want from us non Christians? Are we to have a daily ritual where we bow down and kiss your Christian ass?

I can’t speak for him but it depends if your a militant atheist attempting to subordinate religion in the time honored Marxist tradition.

Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts like post # 509:

"We're not a Christian nation anymore because non Christians refuse to kiss Christians' asses anymore. And that makes Jesus very sad." Bezukov.

This simply means that the critics of this thread have no tolerance or respect for Christians. Christians have not only tolerated these people. but we have compromised with them to the point of losing our own identity as a people. They would have us live under a yoke of bondage, unable to express ourselves and forced to abandon our history, culture, and customs.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,

that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,

Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?


23934105 Reply to 23931186

this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:

FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.

Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.

Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause

Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.

Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]

Fact Five: You posted this:

• "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

Here are two truths

1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:

• “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.

Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”

Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.

You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.

From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.

Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson

Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803

 

[Porter Rockwell]

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,

that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,

Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?


23934105 Reply to 23931186

this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:

FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.

Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.

Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause

Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.

Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]

Fact Five: You posted this:

• "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

Here are two truths

1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:

• “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.

Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”

Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.

You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.

From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.

Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson

Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803

Who wrote the rules saying what one must believe or disbelieve IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD (WHICH IS IN THE BIBLE)?????

Every time I've caught you lying, I have cited it chapter and verse. NOBODY is going to screw around with your private numbering system.

A period of 1803 to 1816 defines a man's life??? A whole 13 years in the life of a man who lived to be 83 defines every thought he had about Christianity? Really? How stupid can you be!!!

I've been telling people that Donald Trump is anti - gun based upon statements he made over a 25 year period, ending just as recent as about August of last year. I've not convinced ANYONE he's anti gun even with 25 years up to August of last year to prove it by his own words. Good luck with getting people to believe that swill you just tried to sell here.

You've lied by calling me a liar. You ARE a pathological liar and you've ignored my posts. I'm sure you won't mind if I fail to give you another minute of my time. You've tried to make a God of Jefferson. Best I can tell, God was using him much like he's using Trump.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,

that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,

Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?


23934105 Reply to 23931186

this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:

FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.

Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.

Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause

Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.

Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]

Fact Five: You posted this:

• "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

Here are two truths

1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:

• “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.

Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”

Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.

You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.

From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.

Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson

Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,

that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,

Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?


23934105 Reply to 23931186

this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:

FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.

Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.

Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause

Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.

Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]

Fact Five: You posted this:

• "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

Here are two truths

1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:

• “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.

Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”

Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.

You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.

From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.

Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson

Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803

Who wrote the rules saying what one must believe or disbelieve IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD (WHICH IS IN THE BIBLE)?????

Every time I've caught you lying, I have cited it chapter and verse. NOBODY is going to screw around with your private numbering system.

A period of 1803 to 1816 defines a man's life??? A whole 13 years in the life of a man who lived to be 83 defines every thought he had about Christianity? Really? How stupid can you be!!!

I've been telling people that Donald Trump is anti - gun based upon statements he made over a 25 year period, ending just as recent as about August of last year. I've not convinced ANYONE he's anti gun even with 25 years up to August of last year to prove it by his own words. Good luck with getting people to believe that swill you just tried to sell here.

You've lied by calling me a liar. You ARE a pathological liar and you've ignored my posts. I'm sure you won't mind if I fail to give you another minute of my time. You've tried to make a God of Jefferson. Best I can tell, God was using him much like he's using Trump.

You posted this as fact. As Jefferson’s Intent::

“I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."


That is a lie because it leaves out the context of the writers intent

The full statement I provided with links to sources:

“I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature..”


If you read that full statement and swear to God that Jefferson is declaring himself a believer in the Divinity of Christ? You are lying to yourself.

i can’t fix that. All I can do is put the truth and facts in front of you. You cannot refute my facts

You won’t even try. I know that.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,

that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,

Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?


23934105 Reply to 23931186

this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:

FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.

Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.

Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause

Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.

Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]

Fact Five: You posted this:

• "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

Here are two truths

1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:

• “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.

Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”

Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.

You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.

From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.

Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson

Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,

that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,

Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?


23934105 Reply to 23931186

this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:

FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.

Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.

Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause

Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.

Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]

Fact Five: You posted this:

• "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

Here are two truths

1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:

• “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.

To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.

Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”

Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.

You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.

From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.

Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson

Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803

Who wrote the rules saying what one must believe or disbelieve IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD (WHICH IS IN THE BIBLE)?????

Every time I've caught you lying, I have cited it chapter and verse. NOBODY is going to screw around with your private numbering system.

A period of 1803 to 1816 defines a man's life??? A whole 13 years in the life of a man who lived to be 83 defines every thought he had about Christianity? Really? How stupid can you be!!!

I've been telling people that Donald Trump is anti - gun based upon statements he made over a 25 year period, ending just as recent as about August of last year. I've not convinced ANYONE he's anti gun even with 25 years up to August of last year to prove it by his own words. Good luck with getting people to believe that swill you just tried to sell here.

You've lied by calling me a liar. You ARE a pathological liar and you've ignored my posts. I'm sure you won't mind if I fail to give you another minute of my time. You've tried to make a God of Jefferson. Best I can tell, God was using him much like he's using Trump.

You posted this as fact. As Jefferson’s Intent::

“I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."


That is a lie because it leaves out the context of the writers intent

The full statement I provided with links to sources:

“I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature..”


If you read that full statement and swear to God that Jefferson is declaring himself a believer in the Divinity of Christ? You are lying to yourself.

i can’t fix that. All I can do is put the truth and facts in front of you. You cannot refute my facts

You won’t even try. I know that.

Quit being a dumbass. Just quit. You are a liar and to keep calling me one shows that you are struggling for relevance. Just quit.

I don't care what Thomas Jefferson was. He said what he was; he self identified. You can twist it, spin it, cut it, slice it or dice it any way you please. But, Jefferson was still one man - HE WAS NOT THE GOD OF ATHEISM YOU WANT HIM TO BE.

I'm finished talking about Jefferson and I'm sick of your B.S. You do not get to judge who is and who is not a Christian. You are not God either. Get your head out of your ass. Grow up and move on.