A pragmatic Approach to Climate Change

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'm not debating why climate change is occurring--in fact, I think it's irrelevant--what I'd like to hear
are some ideas..no matter how outlandish..how 'science-fiction'...how large or how small..ideas about what to do.

Please, do try to keep politics out of it..I know this is a charged issue--but if you truly believe, that nothing at all is happening, then please just give a *chuckle* and move on--thank you!


It appears..that when I attempt to get past the rhetoric and semantically parse what is being said..that what we have an irrelevant confusion of terms. Whether it's "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" does not matter to me. Natural or man-made..or a complex combination of the two, does not matter, to me. I've done my research and made up my mind..which is that 'Something' is happening. The increased storm activity as the system is energized with more heat was the deciding piece of data. For me.

What I don't see are any constructive suggestions on how to deal with it. In fact, if the subject of what to do comes up, someone is sure to post..."Nothing can be done"
I must confess that I'm perplexed as to how that answers the question or contributes constructively to the conversation.

It's been suggested to me..that because there really is 'nothing' to be done--that people just don't want to deal with it--and that, as the time frames are well outside the life expectancy of most posting here--people are more comfortable arguing minutia, rather than dealing with the sobering thought that Triage may be all that's left to us. What to save and where to make our stand.

Some things my lil' "think tank" has come up with....New York as a new Venice..sealing the lower levels in Manhattan and allowing the streets to flood--adapting, as it were.

Pumping large amounts of seawater..desalinized as it goes..into large freshwater lakes in the Sahara, Gobi, and Mojave Deserts--thus partially lower sea levels and providing much needed potable water.

Inducing a 'mini ice-age' by by blowing large amounts of particulate matter into the upper atmosphere--maybe with 'clean' nukes? I dunno about that one..LOL!

Laugh if you like...but these are ideas--no matter how outlandish they may sound.

Thank you for your time

Many thanks to Kim Robinson for the ideas.

To belabor my point..I don't think it's relevant, for the purposes of this discussion to defend, attack or decide any reason for the changes currently going on around the globe. Natural cycle--man-made disaster-- space aliens--what is relevant, to me, and to this thread, are suggestions on how to maximize survival and minimize impact.

I like the colonize Mars idea--of course..Terraforming Mars is a 100+ year project and the initial capital outlay more than most nations are willing to put out.

"Thicken" the life bearing volume. Increased surface area will decrease temperature. In time, we'll get our ice age.
Increase the surface area...I ran it by the math guys...yes..would work...but it would be a long time before effects and it would probably swing the pendulum to far the other way.

Some of the problems that I can see..are the mass migration of millions--not just to flee flooding..like Bangladesh or Florida, but to find haven from famine and disease.

Economic dislocation..as markets are disrupted--will capitalist models find enough energy to survive..or will there be a implosion...and prosperous nations like U.K. and U.S. be able to provide enough energy, food and services to keep a semblance of normality.

I want to respond in particular to the person that said that nothing could be done because the changes were "natural"...We modify Nature everyday and have for a long time now.

In the end, I see this issue as one huge engineering/technological/societal challenge.

How are we going to answer it?

Please...if you must fight the 'Climate wars" one more time ad nauseam--perhaps you could start a new thread?

Thank you all for your time and patience.

 

[TNHarley]

I dont think we have the capabilities to actually curb natural earth evolution. Not yet.
Sure, we could focus on taking over other planets. But what about this one?

 

[aaronleland]

Some climate change is very likely man made, but I say fuck it. Let your grandchildren's grandchildren deal with that shit. You won't know the little cocksuckers anyways.

 

[TNHarley]

very likely

yea, that seems to be all the scientists can say about it as well..

 

[aaronleland]

very likely

yea, that seems to be all the scientists can say about it as well..

You don't have to be a scientist. If you don't think that billions of human being pumping toxic fumes into the atmosphere 24 hours a day 365 days a year for centuries could have a negative effect then you're an asshole.

 

[Old Rocks]

OK, Evil.

Renewable energy. Right now, it is far cheaper to install and operate than even natural gas. The problem is intermittancy. So, we need to develop much cheaper grid scale batteries. Government grants for that kind of research would help.

Renewable energy. Government built grids. Like the Interstate System, we could have the Federal government build a grid system to where the renewables are practical. Texas is an example where building the grid to the resources pays off big time.

Solar in on the building in cities. There are hundreds of square miles of warehouse roofs, malls, and industrial buildings that could have thin film solar on them, creating a source of power right in the cities where the power is used. That would minimize transmission losses. Again, combined with grid scaled batteries, this source could be 24/7.

Geo-engineering? Only as a choice of last resort, too many possibilities of unintended consequences.

I believe China is right now building a canal from the Congo river to Lake Chad with exactly this idea in mind. Here in the US we could take water from the Fort Peck dam on years with a lot of runoff, and take it to the Nebraska Sand Hills, which feeds the Ogallala Aquifer. In fact, we should embark on a study of our nation as to where we can practically replenish the aquifers we are so rapidly depleting. Desalinizing seawater is only an alternative if they find a way to do it cheaply enough for irrigation water. Possibly through research on graphene.


Building for the future sea level rise is simply wise. It will happen, even if we reverse the rise in emissions worldwide in the next decade. There is 30 to 50 years of warming in the pipeline, no matter what we do. So, there are going to be places that we must simple abandon, others that we must build protection for. Deciding which is which is going to be a real problem for the next few decades.

Planning for extreme precipitation events must be done. For they are going to happen. As the atmosphere and oceans warm, the atmosphere will hold more water, and there will be more evaporated from the oceans. And when a front is stalled, there will be a major precipitation event. Failure to plan will result in catastrophic damage to property and population. Even with planning, those events are going to be damaging. We cannot go in and rebuild the same as it was every time this happens. All we are doing is gaurenteeing that our taxes will be spent repeatedly rebuilding the same places.

Just a few ideas, there are many other constructive ideas out there.

 

[TNHarley]

very likely

yea, that seems to be all the scientists can say about it as well..

You don't have to be a scientist. If you don't think that billions of human being pumping toxic fumes into the atmosphere 24 hours a day 365 days a year for centuries could have a negative effect then you're an asshole.

But what is your opinion based on? How do you know it would hurt it?
Seems like fracking would hurt the water supply but science says it doesnt..So i would be wrong. Despite my feels..

 

[Weatherman2020]

Morons who think we have the optimum weather now are unscientific idiots who need to stay out of the discussion. Like the OP.

 

[TNHarley]

It would be cool to find out whats under that ice in antarctica, wouldnt it?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

OK, Evil.

Renewable energy. Right now, it is far cheaper to install and operate than even natural gas. The problem is intermittancy. So, we need to develop much cheaper grid scale batteries. Government grants for that kind of research would help.

Renewable energy. Government built grids. Like the Interstate System, we could have the Federal government build a grid system to where the renewables are practical. Texas is an example where building the grid to the resources pays off big time.

Solar in on the building in cities. There are hundreds of square miles of warehouse roofs, malls, and industrial buildings that could have thin film solar on them, creating a source of power right in the cities where the power is used. That would minimize transmission losses. Again, combined with grid scaled batteries, this source could be 24/7.

Geo-engineering? Only as a choice of last resort, too many possibilities of unintended consequences.

I believe China is right now building a canal from the Congo river to Lake Chad with exactly this idea in mind. Here in the US we could take water from the Fort Peck dam on years with a lot of runoff, and take it to the Nebraska Sand Hills, which feeds the Ogallala Aquifer. In fact, we should embark on a study of our nation as to where we can practically replenish the aquifers we are so rapidly depleting. Desalinizing seawater is only an alternative if they find a way to do it cheaply enough for irrigation water. Possibly through research on graphene.


Building for the future sea level rise is simply wise. It will happen, even if we reverse the rise in emissions worldwide in the next decade. There is 30 to 50 years of warming in the pipeline, no matter what we do. So, there are going to be places that we must simple abandon, others that we must build protection for. Deciding which is which is going to be a real problem for the next few decades.

Planning for extreme precipitation events must be done. For they are going to happen. As the atmosphere and oceans warm, the atmosphere will hold more water, and there will be more evaporated from the oceans. And when a front is stalled, there will be a major precipitation event. Failure to plan will result in catastrophic damage to property and population. Even with planning, those events are going to be damaging. We cannot go in and rebuild the same as it was every time this happens. All we are doing is gaurenteeing that our taxes will be spent repeatedly rebuilding the same places.

Just a few ideas, there are many other constructive ideas out there.

Thanks for the constructive suggestions.

i think the real problems will come from third world countries that simply do not have the tech base or the infrastructure to deal with the coming events. What happens when Bangladesh goes underwater? India is already in a cold war with China over water. I see no way around massive population dislocations and all that follow that..famine, disease and war. Our country can survive--but the coming Resource wars..IMO..would spill over here..like it or not. The next use of nukes..won't be by us. India, China or Pakistan would be my guess..and fallout knows no borders.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Morons who think we have the optimum weather now are unscientific idiots who need to stay out of the discussion. Like the OP.

I see...it's idiotic to attempt to see what is down the road and prepare for it. Right back at you..idiot.

 

[Old Rocks]

OK, Evil.

Renewable energy. Right now, it is far cheaper to install and operate than even natural gas. The problem is intermittancy. So, we need to develop much cheaper grid scale batteries. Government grants for that kind of research would help.

Renewable energy. Government built grids. Like the Interstate System, we could have the Federal government build a grid system to where the renewables are practical. Texas is an example where building the grid to the resources pays off big time.

Solar in on the building in cities. There are hundreds of square miles of warehouse roofs, malls, and industrial buildings that could have thin film solar on them, creating a source of power right in the cities where the power is used. That would minimize transmission losses. Again, combined with grid scaled batteries, this source could be 24/7.

Geo-engineering? Only as a choice of last resort, too many possibilities of unintended consequences.

I believe China is right now building a canal from the Congo river to Lake Chad with exactly this idea in mind. Here in the US we could take water from the Fort Peck dam on years with a lot of runoff, and take it to the Nebraska Sand Hills, which feeds the Ogallala Aquifer. In fact, we should embark on a study of our nation as to where we can practically replenish the aquifers we are so rapidly depleting. Desalinizing seawater is only an alternative if they find a way to do it cheaply enough for irrigation water. Possibly through research on graphene.


Building for the future sea level rise is simply wise. It will happen, even if we reverse the rise in emissions worldwide in the next decade. There is 30 to 50 years of warming in the pipeline, no matter what we do. So, there are going to be places that we must simple abandon, others that we must build protection for. Deciding which is which is going to be a real problem for the next few decades.

Planning for extreme precipitation events must be done. For they are going to happen. As the atmosphere and oceans warm, the atmosphere will hold more water, and there will be more evaporated from the oceans. And when a front is stalled, there will be a major precipitation event. Failure to plan will result in catastrophic damage to property and population. Even with planning, those events are going to be damaging. We cannot go in and rebuild the same as it was every time this happens. All we are doing is gaurenteeing that our taxes will be spent repeatedly rebuilding the same places.

Just a few ideas, there are many other constructive ideas out there.

Thanks for the constructive suggestions.

i think the real problems will come from third wold countries that simply do not have the tech base or the infrastructure to deal with the coming events. What happens when Bangladesh goes underwater? India is already in a cold war with China over water. I see no way around massive population dislocations and all that follow that..famine, disease and war. Our country can survive--but the coming Resource wars..IMO..would spill over here..like it or not. The next use of nukes..won't be by us. India, China or Pakistan would be my guess..and fallout knows no borders.

Damn, but I wish I could argue with your assessment, but I fear you are completely correct.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Morons who think we have the optimum weather now are unscientific idiots who need to stay out of the discussion. Like the OP.

I see...it's idiotic to attempt to see what is down the road and prepare for it. Right back at you..idiot.

Prepare for what? Warming? Cooling? Status quo? Every week it's a new crisis from you moonbats. Only an unscientific idiot thinks todays climate is optimum.

 

[aaronleland]

Morons who think we have the optimum weather now are unscientific idiots who need to stay out of the discussion. Like the OP.

I see...it's idiotic to attempt to see what is down the road and prepare for it. Right back at you..idiot.

Already name calling. We'll make a USMBer of you yet.

 

[Weatherman2020]

CBO ON FIGHTING “CLIMATE CHANGE” IN THE VULNERABLE ZONES: “The federal government should make coastal residents bear more of the financial risks for living there, the office said.”

MAKE THE BLUE AREAS PAY!

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Morons who think we have the optimum weather now are unscientific idiots who need to stay out of the discussion. Like the OP.

I see...it's idiotic to attempt to see what is down the road and prepare for it. Right back at you..idiot.

Already name calling. We'll make a USMBer of you yet.

Not really my style..but ..tit for tat...as it were...and some fool who can't even stay on topic..as though whether or not the climate is 'optimal' (whatever that is),l has any bearing on the conversation at all. As i asked...if you really don't think anything is going on..beat feet and start your own 'eyes wide shut' thread.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

CBO ON FIGHTING “CLIMATE CHANGE” IN THE VULNERABLE ZONES: “The federal government should make coastal residents bear more of the financial risks for living there, the office said.”

MAKE THE BLUE AREAS PAY!

***yawn*** This is your rebuttal? Really? You have the nerve to claim some scientific expertise..and you post this shyte?

Is it really all about Red vs Blue with you? Can you not see past your partisan nose?

 

[Weatherman2020]

CBO ON FIGHTING “CLIMATE CHANGE” IN THE VULNERABLE ZONES: “The federal government should make coastal residents bear more of the financial risks for living there, the office said.”

MAKE THE BLUE AREAS PAY!

***yawn*** This is your rebuttal? Really? You have the nerve to claim some scientific expertise..and you post this shyte?

Is it really all about Red vs Blue with you? Can you not see past your partisan nose?

It's all about America and ridding it of those who hate it and are attempting to destroy it.

 

[OldLady]

CBO ON FIGHTING “CLIMATE CHANGE” IN THE VULNERABLE ZONES: “The federal government should make coastal residents bear more of the financial risks for living there, the office said.”

MAKE THE BLUE AREAS PAY!

***yawn*** This is your rebuttal? Really? You have the nerve to claim some scientific expertise..and you post this shyte?

Is it really all about Red vs Blue with you? Can you not see past your partisan nose?

No

 

[Old Rocks]

CBO ON FIGHTING “CLIMATE CHANGE” IN THE VULNERABLE ZONES: “The federal government should make coastal residents bear more of the financial risks for living there, the office said.”

MAKE THE BLUE AREAS PAY!

***yawn*** This is your rebuttal? Really? You have the nerve to claim some scientific expertise..and you post this shyte?

Is it really all about Red vs Blue with you? Can you not see past your partisan nose?

It's all about America and ridding it of those who hate it and are attempting to destroy it.

How how are you planning to do that? Bullets? Concentration camps? Seems to me that those that are trying to destroy this nation are those that would leave us unprepared for the consequences of the climate change we are seeing right now.