- Moderator
- #21
You can't keep politics out of the climate change debate because it's almost 100% political.
A pragmatic Approach to Climate Change
- Thread starter EvilEyeFleegle
- Start date
You can't keep politics out of the climate change debate because it's almost 100% political.
Weatherman2020
Diamond Member
Good ideas, thanks!
Piss on any American flags today, or is that an evening thing with you?
- Thread starter
- #23
LoL...I love America..as much as I detest your vision of it. Were I to piss anywhere but the toilet..and the occasional tree..it would be right in Pepe's face.
Weatherman2020
Diamond Member
Answer the question, dufus. What are we to prepare for, warming or cooling?LoL...I love America..as much as I detest your vision of it. Were I to piss anywhere but the toilet..and the occasional tree..it would be right in Pepe's face.
- Thread starter
- #25
Read my OP..and decide for yourself.Answer the question, dufus. What are we to prepare for, warming or cooling?LoL...I love America..as much as I detest your vision of it. Were I to piss anywhere but the toilet..and the occasional tree..it would be right in Pepe's face.
Weatherman2020
Diamond Member
It's an A or B question and you can't even answer it.Read my OP..and decide for yourself.Answer the question, dufus. What are we to prepare for, warming or cooling?LoL...I love America..as much as I detest your vision of it. Were I to piss anywhere but the toilet..and the occasional tree..it would be right in Pepe's face.
BUT WE MUST DO SOMETHING SO WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT OURSELVES!
- Thread starter
- #27
Well..that explains your continued presence in this thread, eh?It's an A or B question and you can't even answer it.Read my OP..and decide for yourself.Answer the question, dufus. What are we to prepare for, warming or cooling?LoL...I love America..as much as I detest your vision of it. Were I to piss anywhere but the toilet..and the occasional tree..it would be right in Pepe's face.
BUT WE MUST DO SOMETHING SO WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT OURSELVES!
You don't get to define the argument or ask the questions..if you are curious..which we both know you are not..you're just trolling..and we both know it--you can read my OP. I doubt you got past the first couple of lines.
Weatherman2020
Diamond Member
Don't get pissy at me because you can't even define the problem and ignore the solution offered by the CBO to tax blue regions of America.Well..that explains your continued presence in this thread, eh?It's an A or B question and you can't even answer it.Read my OP..and decide for yourself.Answer the question, dufus. What are we to prepare for, warming or cooling?LoL...I love America..as much as I detest your vision of it. Were I to piss anywhere but the toilet..and the occasional tree..it would be right in Pepe's face.
BUT WE MUST DO SOMETHING SO WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT OURSELVES!
You don't get to define the argument or ask the questions..if you are curious..which we both know you are not..you're just trolling..and we both know it--you can read my OP. I doubt you got past the first couple of lines.
- Thread starter
- #29
The debate is...but this is not that...this is just some brainstorming on what, if anything, can be done ..given the observable phenomena..as I said..if one believes that that nothing is happening..than this thread is not for them...if, on the other hand, a person's 'spidy sense' is tingling a bit--maybe a few ideas..might not hurt. It does seem as though...a certain type of poster..just cannot resist even the hypothetical discussion of 'something happening' without pooping on it. Seems a bit knee-jerk to me.
TyroneSlothrop
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #30
U.S. report finds 'no convincing alternative explanation' for climate change
Source: philly.com
Updated: November 3, 2017 — 3:00 PM EDT
by Chris Mooney, Juliet Eilperin, Brady Dennis, Washington Post
WASHINGTON – The Trump administration released a dire scientific report Friday detailing the growing threats of climate change. The report stands in stark contrast to the administration’s efforts to downplay humans’ role in global warming, withdraw from an international climate accord and reverse Obama-era policies aimed at curbing America’s greenhouse-gas output.
The White House did not seek to prevent the release of the government’s National Climate Assessment, which is mandated by law, despite the fact that its findings sharply contradict the administration’s policies. The report affirms that climate change is driven almost entirely by human action, warns of potential sea level rise as high as 8 feet by the year 2100, and enumerates myriad climate-related damages across the United States that are already occurring due to 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit of global warming since 1900.
“It is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century,” the document reports. “For the warming over the last century, there is no convincing alternative explanation supported by the extent of the observational evidence.”
The report’s release underscores the extent to which the machinery of the federal scientific establishment, operating in multiple agencies across the government, continues to grind on even as top administration officials have minimized or disparaged its findings. Federal scientists have continued to author papers and issue reports on climate change, for example, even as political appointees have altered the wording of news releases or blocked civil servants from speaking about their conclusions in public forums. The climate assessment process is dictated by a 1990 law that Democratic and Republican administrations have followed.
..........
Read more: U.S. report finds 'no convincing alternative explanation' for climate change
Source: philly.com
Updated: November 3, 2017 — 3:00 PM EDT
by Chris Mooney, Juliet Eilperin, Brady Dennis, Washington Post
WASHINGTON – The Trump administration released a dire scientific report Friday detailing the growing threats of climate change. The report stands in stark contrast to the administration’s efforts to downplay humans’ role in global warming, withdraw from an international climate accord and reverse Obama-era policies aimed at curbing America’s greenhouse-gas output.
The White House did not seek to prevent the release of the government’s National Climate Assessment, which is mandated by law, despite the fact that its findings sharply contradict the administration’s policies. The report affirms that climate change is driven almost entirely by human action, warns of potential sea level rise as high as 8 feet by the year 2100, and enumerates myriad climate-related damages across the United States that are already occurring due to 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit of global warming since 1900.
“It is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century,” the document reports. “For the warming over the last century, there is no convincing alternative explanation supported by the extent of the observational evidence.”
The report’s release underscores the extent to which the machinery of the federal scientific establishment, operating in multiple agencies across the government, continues to grind on even as top administration officials have minimized or disparaged its findings. Federal scientists have continued to author papers and issue reports on climate change, for example, even as political appointees have altered the wording of news releases or blocked civil servants from speaking about their conclusions in public forums. The climate assessment process is dictated by a 1990 law that Democratic and Republican administrations have followed.
..........
Read more: U.S. report finds 'no convincing alternative explanation' for climate change
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Cocksuck, my dd214 says Honorable, how about you? If not, why not. Or did you chose not to serve at all? Bone spurs, maybe? A pimple on your ass? LOL
And I do think that you are dead serious about those being good ideas.
We have all types of different fuel research going on right now.
They will find a cheap alternative fuel, in the not to far off future.
We still have time to do it.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/alternative_fuels/
They will find a cheap alternative fuel, in the not to far off future.
We still have time to do it.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/alternative_fuels/
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Not in the future, they have already.
Solar energy is now cheaper than fossil fuels
https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine...nergy-costs-wind-energy-costs-LCOE-Lazard.png
A recent World Economic Forum report reveals that in 2016 solar power became the same price or cheaper than fossil fuels for the first time.
The December report charts how much the cost of renewable technologies has plummeted. A decade ago, generating electricity through solar cost $600 per megawatt-hour. Five years later it was down to $300, and now the cost has fallen to around $100- about the same or less than the cost for coal and natural gas. For wind, the cost is around $50.
“Renewable energy has reached a tipping point,” Michael Drexler, Head of Long Term Investing, Infrastructure and Development at the WEF, said in a statement to Quartz. “It now constitutes the best chance to reverse global warming. Solar and wind have just become very competitive, and costs continue to fall. It is not only a commercially viable option, but an outright compelling investment opportunity.”
Australia is among the countries that have reached grid parity (the point at which an alternative energy source can generate power at a utility cost equal to the price of traditional grid power). Other nations include Japan, Germany, Brazil, Italy and France. The Solar Energy Industry Association reports the US added 125 solar panels every minute in 2016, with the cost of renewables on par with fossil fuels in many states.
Planet Ark News
skookerasbil
Platinum Member
I'm not debating why climate change is occurring--in fact, I think it's irrelevant--what I'd like to hear
are some ideas..no matter how outlandish..how 'science-fiction'...how large or how small..ideas about what to do.
Please, do try to keep politics out of it..I know this is a charged issue--but if you truly believe, that nothing at all is happening, then please just give a *chuckle* and move on--thank you!
It appears..that when I attempt to get past the rhetoric and semantically parse what is being said..that what we have an irrelevant confusion of terms. Whether it's "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" does not matter to me. Natural or man-made..or a complex combination of the two, does not matter, to me. I've done my research and made up my mind..which is that 'Something' is happening. The increased storm activity as the system is energized with more heat was the deciding piece of data. For me.
What I don't see are any constructive suggestions on how to deal with it. In fact, if the subject of what to do comes up, someone is sure to post..."Nothing can be done"
I must confess that I'm perplexed as to how that answers the question or contributes constructively to the conversation.
It's been suggested to me..that because there really is 'nothing' to be done--that people just don't want to deal with it--and that, as the time frames are well outside the life expectancy of most posting here--people are more comfortable arguing minutia, rather than dealing with the sobering thought that Triage may be all that's left to us. What to save and where to make our stand.
Some things my lil' "think tank" has come up with....New York as a new Venice..sealing the lower levels in Manhattan and allowing the streets to flood--adapting, as it were.
Pumping large amounts of seawater..desalinized as it goes..into large freshwater lakes in the Sahara, Gobi, and Mojave Deserts--thus partially lower sea levels and providing much needed potable water.
Inducing a 'mini ice-age' by by blowing large amounts of particulate matter into the upper atmosphere--maybe with 'clean' nukes? I dunno about that one..LOL!
Laugh if you like...but these are ideas--no matter how outlandish they may sound.
Thank you for your time
Many thanks to Kim Robinson for the ideas.
To belabor my point..I don't think it's relevant, for the purposes of this discussion to defend, attack or decide any reason for the changes currently going on around the globe. Natural cycle--man-made disaster-- space aliens--what is relevant, to me, and to this thread, are suggestions on how to maximize survival and minimize impact.
I like the colonize Mars idea--of course..Terraforming Mars is a 100+ year project and the initial capital outlay more than most nations are willing to put out.
"Thicken" the life bearing volume. Increased surface area will decrease temperature. In time, we'll get our ice age.
Increase the surface area...I ran it by the math guys...yes..would work...but it would be a long time before effects and it would probably swing the pendulum to far the other way.
Some of the problems that I can see..are the mass migration of millions--not just to flee flooding..like Bangladesh or Florida, but to find haven from famine and disease.
Economic dislocation..as markets are disrupted--will capitalist models find enough energy to survive..or will there be a implosion...and prosperous nations like U.K. and U.S. be able to provide enough energy, food and services to keep a semblance of normality.
I want to respond in particular to the person that said that nothing could be done because the changes were "natural"...We modify Nature everyday and have for a long time now.
In the end, I see this issue as one huge engineering/technological/societal challenge.
How are we going to answer it?
Please...if you must fight the 'Climate wars" one more time ad nauseam--perhaps you could start a new thread?
Thank you all for your time and patience.
Dude.........the answer is simple............"dealing" with it makes no economic sense and in the end, that is what drives how much we do or don't do. Think about it........if you had 1 million $, would you gamble the whole 1 million on getting 10 million $ in 10 years if there was only a 50%/50% chance?? Renewable energy is hugely expensive and is paid for exclusively via taxes on the public. Nations will always go the cheap route for energy no matter what the science says ( easily demonstrated via any graph of anemic renewable energy growth over the past 20 years ). Every projection ( don't take my word for it ) on energy out to 2050 clearly displays there is and will be a lot of talk about "doing something" about climate change. They'll throw a bone or two along the way to the alarmists just to keep them quiet but most of the "doing something" will be symbolic only. I said that almost 10 years ago when I got into this forum and nothing has changed.........they are still not doing dick about it now and there are no prospects in the future.
Like most of life, at the end of the day, it all comes down to weighing costs. Costs don't matter to the small number of folks who push climate change action but they matter to the rest of us.
PS.......do your own research on the true costs of renewables like I did. See what you find!
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
In post #33 the research was done. Post #34 is completely rebutted before it was posted.
skookerasbil
Platinum Member
Hey EvilEye.........important to take note because it is exceedingly important..........
From the table above on costs of energy ( see the fine blue print on top )........
"Certain alternative generation technologies are competitive with conventional generation technologies under some scenarios. Such observation does not take into account............."
In other words.............fake.
And look who is on the advisory board of World Economic Forum >>
Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Bono, Paulo Coelho,
Barney Frank Henry Kissinger, Nelson Mandela
C'mon now..........all globalists who seek to enslave the rest of the world, particularly the poor, with high energy costs...........fire higher than conventional generation.
And ALL posts on energy costs as posted by environmentalists NEVER cover the costs to grid.........NEVER.......which clearly is an attempt to dupe the public >> Renewable Energy's Hidden Costs? - The Energy Collective
EvilEye..........always check the sources of the things posted by both skeptics and deniers.
Oh......and the folks who align themselves with the "we need to do something now" climate crusaders have been saying since 2013 that renewable energy is cheaper than coal etc.............
But then why did just a year ago the Obama Energy Information Agency project out to 2040 that all renewables COMBINED would only be accounting for about 10% of providing us our electricity??
http://naturalgasnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/eia-aeo2014-forecast-512x384.png
From the table above on costs of energy ( see the fine blue print on top )........
"Certain alternative generation technologies are competitive with conventional generation technologies under some scenarios. Such observation does not take into account............."
In other words.............fake.
And look who is on the advisory board of World Economic Forum >>
Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Bono, Paulo Coelho,
Barney Frank Henry Kissinger, Nelson Mandela
C'mon now..........all globalists who seek to enslave the rest of the world, particularly the poor, with high energy costs...........fire higher than conventional generation.
And ALL posts on energy costs as posted by environmentalists NEVER cover the costs to grid.........NEVER.......which clearly is an attempt to dupe the public >> Renewable Energy's Hidden Costs? - The Energy Collective
EvilEye..........always check the sources of the things posted by both skeptics and deniers.
Oh......and the folks who align themselves with the "we need to do something now" climate crusaders have been saying since 2013 that renewable energy is cheaper than coal etc.............
But then why did just a year ago the Obama Energy Information Agency project out to 2040 that all renewables COMBINED would only be accounting for about 10% of providing us our electricity??
http://naturalgasnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/eia-aeo2014-forecast-512x384.png
BuckToothMoron
Gold Member
- Apr 3, 2016
- 9,909
- 1,908
- 290
I'm not debating why climate change is occurring--in fact, I think it's irrelevant--what I'd like to hear
are some ideas..no matter how outlandish..how 'science-fiction'...how large or how small..ideas about what to do.
Please, do try to keep politics out of it..I know this is a charged issue--but if you truly believe, that nothing at all is happening, then please just give a *chuckle* and move on--thank you!
It appears..that when I attempt to get past the rhetoric and semantically parse what is being said..that what we have an irrelevant confusion of terms. Whether it's "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" does not matter to me. Natural or man-made..or a complex combination of the two, does not matter, to me. I've done my research and made up my mind..which is that 'Something' is happening. The increased storm activity as the system is energized with more heat was the deciding piece of data. For me.
What I don't see are any constructive suggestions on how to deal with it. In fact, if the subject of what to do comes up, someone is sure to post..."Nothing can be done"
I must confess that I'm perplexed as to how that answers the question or contributes constructively to the conversation.
It's been suggested to me..that because there really is 'nothing' to be done--that people just don't want to deal with it--and that, as the time frames are well outside the life expectancy of most posting here--people are more comfortable arguing minutia, rather than dealing with the sobering thought that Triage may be all that's left to us. What to save and where to make our stand.
Some things my lil' "think tank" has come up with....New York as a new Venice..sealing the lower levels in Manhattan and allowing the streets to flood--adapting, as it were.
Pumping large amounts of seawater..desalinized as it goes..into large freshwater lakes in the Sahara, Gobi, and Mojave Deserts--thus partially lower sea levels and providing much needed potable water.
Inducing a 'mini ice-age' by by blowing large amounts of particulate matter into the upper atmosphere--maybe with 'clean' nukes? I dunno about that one..LOL!
Laugh if you like...but these are ideas--no matter how outlandish they may sound.
Thank you for your time
Many thanks to Kim Robinson for the ideas.
To belabor my point..I don't think it's relevant, for the purposes of this discussion to defend, attack or decide any reason for the changes currently going on around the globe. Natural cycle--man-made disaster-- space aliens--what is relevant, to me, and to this thread, are suggestions on how to maximize survival and minimize impact.
I like the colonize Mars idea--of course..Terraforming Mars is a 100+ year project and the initial capital outlay more than most nations are willing to put out.
"Thicken" the life bearing volume. Increased surface area will decrease temperature. In time, we'll get our ice age.
Increase the surface area...I ran it by the math guys...yes..would work...but it would be a long time before effects and it would probably swing the pendulum to far the other way.
Some of the problems that I can see..are the mass migration of millions--not just to flee flooding..like Bangladesh or Florida, but to find haven from famine and disease.
Economic dislocation..as markets are disrupted--will capitalist models find enough energy to survive..or will there be a implosion...and prosperous nations like U.K. and U.S. be able to provide enough energy, food and services to keep a semblance of normality.
I want to respond in particular to the person that said that nothing could be done because the changes were "natural"...We modify Nature everyday and have for a long time now.
In the end, I see this issue as one huge engineering/technological/societal challenge.
How are we going to answer it?
Please...if you must fight the 'Climate wars" one more time ad nauseam--perhaps you could start a new thread?
Thank you all for your time and patience.
Try to fight the “problem” of climate change is like trying to fight the “problem” of aging. They are both going to occur, and will happen in spite of anything you do. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be prudent about our use of fossil fuels or any other resource on this planet, but there is NO real scientific PROOF that man can, has or could significantly impact the global climate change more than what is going to occur despite what man does. Sorry, that is just reality.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Hey Buck, trying for moron of the day? We are driving the climate change at present. Increasing the CO2 from 280 ppm to 410 ppm, and CH4 from about 800 ppb to over 1800 ppb is the driving force behind the rapid warming we are seeing at present. We should be cooling, not warming, by the Milankovic Cycles.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Yep, the fact that renwables are cheaper than fossil fuels is so fake that the people in ultra liberal Texas are making major investments in wind and solar. LOL
task0778
Diamond Member
Rapid warming? How much have global temps risen over the past 20 years? And how much did those famous GW computer models tell us the global temps would rise by now? I hereby raise the BS flag.
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